Engine clacking fixed by oil change???

[Sckill]

My 2012 S10 was recently in the shop for clacking engine noise. The good news is that it appears to be resolved and the bike sounds normal. The bad news is that I'm at a complete loss to understand how an engine oil change could have fixed the clacking.

My S10 sounded exactly like Belaflek's in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW_b8RJCddM

History: Bike was running fine in early May when I rode it up to Romney and back. Afterwards, the bike sat unused for 2 months. A few weeks ago, I tried to fire up the bike and it would not start at all. After repeated cranking, the bike finally got started up, but there was loud clacking and the bike sounded like it wasn't running properly. Both cylinders were firing as the exhaust pipes were hot, but then the clacking settled down to what sounded like normal idle. A small turn of the throttle to get the revs up and then the clacking would start again like in the video.

Mountain Motorsports of Roswell GA took the bike in. They confirmed they could also hear the clacking. They did an initial oil change and told me the oil looked like it had some water in it and was low, but no metal at all. I was riding in the rain at Romney, but no water crossings or anything I could think of that would get water into the engine. They changed the oil and filter again and found nothing in the oil. Afterwards the bike was running and sounded fine. Oh and while they had the bike for 2 weeks, the battery got completely drained and wouldn't hold a charge. So I have a running bike that seemed to ride and run fine on the ride back from the dealership, but I'm a bit pissed about being down $545 for 2 oil changes, diagnostic fees, and a new battery in the 2 weeks they had the bike (even though the bike is under extended warranty until mid 2018).

I still don't know what caused the initial clacking, but I don't see how an oil change would have fixed it. This bike does consume a bit of oil, but the low oil level light was not on. Any thoughts or ideas from the group would be appreciated here. Thanks.

 

[~TABASCO~]

We think oil weight effects the CCT. Was it the CCT on start up? Could it have been too much or too little oil?

 

[Checkswrecks]

Old engine oil breaks down and loses thickness, which we call viscosity. Further, we have a number of threads in the forum about the shortcomings of the Gen1 cam chain tensioners (CCT) and your bike is a Gen1. The following are two CCTs (off the web) so you can see the piece which needs to be pressurized so that it can slide out to keep tension on the cam chain.

With an older CCT that has some wear, and some thinner oil, your cam chain would be able to develop some slack and the engine is going to "clack" as you describe.


If you have enough rattle/clacking that you are noticing it, I'd strongly suggest replacing the CCT as soon as possible. Do yourself a favor and use the search block with the words:
cam chain tensioner replace

 

[Sckill]

I've been listening for clacking and rattling knowing the issues we have on the Gen 1 CCTs, but there was nothing up until that weekend. I thought the CCT failure was more of a slow thing rather than a sudden event?

I asked the dealer about the CCT while they had the bike, but they never got to it. I might have to change the CCT myself then rather than bring it back to the dealership. I'm starting to think this YES coverage is useless if the bike is brought to a dealer that doesn't spend enough time to really investigate the issue.

 

[2daMax]

Oil with water in it could be from a leaking head gasket. Hope the coolant level is OK which indicates a good sign of a healthy gasket. The effect of the mixture would be sludge or emulsion (whitish liquid cream) and can block oil passages. Your hydraulic actuated CCT could be prevented from operating normally if oil is restricted by this cream. Good thing the timing chain did not jump, else you may have to deal with bent valves.

No intention to start an oil discussion but some points that are related to this. Try using oils with higher Flash Point (look at their Product Data Sheet). You mentioned oil loss. If it is from evaporation at service temperature, then the oil will thicken over time and cause poorer flow. If you can, tell us what was the oil you were using (Brand/Model, viscosity grade) and what oil you are using now.

 

[Sckill]

Oil with water in it could be from a leaking head gasket. Hope the coolant level is OK which indicates a good sign of a healthy gasket. The effect of the mixture would be sludge or emulsion (whitish liquid cream) and can block oil passages. Your hydraulic actuated CCT could be prevented from operating normally if oil is restricted by this cream. Good thing the timing chain did not jump, else you may have to deal with bent valves.

No intention to start an oil discussion but some points that are related to this. Try using oils with higher Flash Point (look at their Product Data Sheet). You mentioned oil loss. If it is from evaporation at service temperature, then the oil will thicken over time and cause poorer flow. If you can, tell us what was the oil you were using (Brand/Model, viscosity grade) and what oil you are using now.

Coolant level in the reservoir looks good and is right in between the high/low marks. The bike has been on Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 for the past few years (as well as my previous bikes which did not have engine issues).

I have a new CCT on order and while I have the bike apart, I figured I might as well do the valve check/adjustment and spark plugs even though it's about 2K miles early. This will be my first time doing a valve check and I was originally going to ask the dealer to do it, but I'm not looking to give them any more of my money after this last service. Better to learn now and not have to rely on a dealer for this in the future.

 

[Bryce]

Coolant level in the reservoir looks good and is right in between the high/low marks. The bike has been on Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 for the past few years (as well as my previous bikes which did not have engine issues).

I have a new CCT on order and while I have the bike apart, I figured I might as well do the valve check/adjustment and spark plugs even though it's about 2K miles early. This will be my first time doing a valve check and I was originally going to ask the dealer to do it, but I'm not looking to give them any more of my money after this last service. Better to learn now and not have to rely on a dealer for this in the future.

Other than the valve cover gasket, the valve check isnt that bad. An adjustment is a good bit more work.

I just had to pull mine down to the valve cover again today after realizing it leaked after a ride to meet some others to ride with this morning. Gad to turn around, go home and pull it apart again. I guess the gasket was just not on well. No leaks after try #2. So, between 9am and 1pm, I tore it down far enough to do a valve check, put it back together, ate lunch, went on a 30 mile test loop and cleaned up my tools.

 

[SilverBullet]

I asked the dealer about the CCT while they had the bike, but they never got to it. I might have to change the CCT myself then rather than bring it back to the dealership. I'm starting to think this YES coverage is useless if the bike is brought to a dealer that doesn't spend enough time to really investigate the issue.

YES is not useless but your dealer sure is.

YES replaced my CCT to upgraded Gen 2 version at 42k miles. YES replaced my fork seals and wipers at 70k miles. YES replaced my final drive seal and o-ring at 70k miles.

Go see another dealer. I drive 200 miles each way to my dealer but live in Houston metro area with about 12 dealers within 40 miles radius.

_

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk

 

[Bryce]

YES is not useless but your dealer sure is.

YES replaced my CCT to upgraded Gen 2 version at 42k miles. YES replaced my fork seals and wipers at 70k miles. YES replaced my final drive seal and o-ring at 70k miles.

Go see another dealer. I drive 200 miles each way to my dealer but live in Houston metro area with about 12 dealers within 40 miles radius.

_

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk

True.... try the dealer in Canton, GA, Freedom Powersports now. They did me right on a waterpump weeping oil under YES.

Mountain Motorsports in Roswell, before they were bought, screwed me on an oil burning '08 KLR under the Kawasaki 1yr and 5yr GTPP. They said it was normal to burn 1L in 1000miles. I bought 2 bikes from them, including the KLR. I won't darken their door again.

 

[Sierra1]

Bad dealerships get bought by Freedom, and "restructured". Usually the dealers are usually greatly improved afterwards. In their defense, if you rode your KLR frequently over 70 m.p.h., it is common for it to "guzzle" oil. Mine did.

 

[Bryce]

if you rode your KLR frequently over 70 m.p.h., it is common for it to "guzzle" oil. Mine did.

Doesnt make it right, but that's another thread for another forum. 685 kit fixes it... Kawasaki screwed the pooch on new rings and out of round cylinders in '08.

 

[Sckill]

True.... try the dealer in Canton, GA, Freedom Powersports now. They did me right on a waterpump weeping oil under YES.

Mountain Motorsports in Roswell, before they were bought, screwed me on an oil burning '08 KLR under the Kawasaki 1yr and 5yr GTPP. They said it was normal to burn 1L in 1000miles. I bought 2 bikes from them, including the KLR. I won't darken their door again.

Thanks Bryce. I'll try the one in Canton next time if anything happens on the S10.

 

[Sckill]

One bit of good news. I ran a compression test and got 90/89 psi on cylinders 1 and 2. A bit lower than standard, but still within spec and gives me one indication the valves are still OK. When the rest of the parts get in, I'll get the valve cover off for a leak down test, but I have a bit more confidence now that it was really just a sudden CCT failure and that nothing else broke.

 

[Sckill]

More good news. I had the bike a bit more apart today and ran a leak down test into both cylinders at TDC. 94% on cylinder 1 and 97% on cylinder 2. No air leakage heard from the exhaust or intake ports so valves are confirmed good. No bubbles in the coolant with the radiator cap off so head gasket is good. I heard air escaping from the crank case so it's getting a bit past the rings, but it doesn't look to be a significant amount.

While I had the crank case cover and the valve cover off, I didn't see any metal or oil/water mix anywhere. The coolant level is still good and has stayed right in between the H/L mark so I don't think it's a coolant leak. Water in the oil is what the dealership techs claimed, but I have not actually seen the oil they dumped or anywhere currently inside the engine so they could be talking nonsense for all I know.

The valve adjustment job is a bit time consuming, but not as bad as I thought it would be. All 4 of the exhaust valves are tight so I have new shims on the way and I'll be setting them closer to the loose side so hopefully no adjustment will be needed next time around. It feels nice working on my own bike and keeping my money.

 

[Sckill]

I'm convinced now that it was the CCT and feeling lucky that the cams didn't jump timing when this whole thing started. Others usually report the CCT making noise over time before failure but mine was a sudden event.

The bike is back together after valve adjustment, new CCT, new air filter, new spark plugs, Yamaha ring free in the fuel, seafoam in the oil, a 150 mile shake down ride, and a fresh oil change to get out anything cleaned out of the system. The bike is quieter, pulling hard, and less vibes felt through the handlebar than before. The oil coming out was a bit dirty as expected after putting in all of the cleaners, but no visible traces of metal.

Its hard to describe, but riding back from the dealership after their non-service, the tenere felt only OK. Now it feels more like the well tuned torquey beast that I remember.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk