Brake Bleed

scopeusa

Retired, riding bucket list around the world
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
18
Location
Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Islands
I am going to bleed the brakes this week and follow the shop manual sequence front R, front L, rear. This is just a flush not a bleed as such. If I purge until I obtain clean fluid at each wheel cylinder will this have fully flushed the ABS motor or do I need to run the ABS motor tests and re-flush. Fingers crossed on the ABS fault.
 

EricV

Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
8,444
Location
Tupelo, MS
You will be drawing some fluid thru the ABS block, but not where the piston is cycling. You need to activate the ABS, either by the oem diagnostic method or actual use, to get the old fluid out of that piston area. It won't take much, as there is very little fluid there, but you don't want it to stagnate over time and seize the piston. I would suggest that you flush the system, go for a ride and activate the ABS, then re-examine the fluid in the reservoir and asses if you need to flush it again. As said, the amount trapped in the piston are will be very small and may not be enough to 'taint' the rest of the fluid in any significant way.

That said, overkill hardly ever hurts and it's a relatively small amount of fluid in the total system. ;D
 

Pterodactyl

New Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2015
Messages
255
Location
Helena, Montana
Thanks for the info. Another question: is causing the pump to cycle with just the rear brake sufficient, or should it be activated with the front brake as well?
 

Checkswrecks

Ungenear to broked stuff
Staff member
Global Moderator
2011 Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
11,597
Location
Damascus, MD
RonH said:
The ABS kicks in every pothole or ripple in road, every little bump of 3/8" height during braking will result in ABS kicking in, so feel assured in a few miles the pump will cycle any fluid out into the main line. ABS, the worst invention since inventions were invented.

LOL - One man's meat is another man's poison.


I was riding home from work in the drizzle yesterday and was braking in a fairly tight curve on a 2-lane road when the ABS kicked in for nothing visible. Realized after that at rush hours it's a curve where cars and trucks sit in line waiting for a traffic light around the corner, so it just took one leaker to create my slick spot. Glad to have it.
 

EricV

Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
8,444
Location
Tupelo, MS
Pterodactyl said:
Thanks for the info. Another question: is causing the pump to cycle with just the rear brake sufficient, or should it be activated with the front brake as well?
There is only one solenoid. And contrary to what RonH believes, if you're not on the brakes, ABS isn't kicking in. TCS is another story, but that's different software. Activating only the rear will cycle fluid thru the ABS solenoid just fine. A gravel parking lot at 20mph works well for doing both front and rear if you want to test the wheel speed sensors in terms of ABS.
 

scopeusa

Retired, riding bucket list around the world
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
18
Location
Providenciales, Turks & Caicos Islands
I figured that there would probably be some unflushed fluid in the motor and valves. When I initiate the motor test sequence (shop manual 4.71) it runs the motor for a total of about 10 seconds, front brake, back brake, front brake, idle, off. I guess this should move the old stuff out of the pump. With the test lead fitted it would allow me to flush on the lift, then activate the ABS a couple of times and then reflush without moving the bike off the lift. If its time to change the brake fluid then I guess its time to change the clutch fluid as well.
 

JRE

Going to hell on scholarship
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
811
Location
Cincinnati OH
Curious to hear what other think or have experienced for the cost of a dealer doing a front/rear brake flush? I know this is a more involved process than the average bike since it's ABS and linked but I have never had a shop do this before so I have no idea what price to expect.

The local shop I just started using has been great and are very good about charging for time spent only without minimums (plus parts) and they estimated $60 (about 45mins labor). I thought that was rather inexpensive but per the above, my expectations could be way off.
 

EricV

Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
8,444
Location
Tupelo, MS
I don't think that's a bad quote for that work, but it's no more involved than a regular bike. The linked brakes and ABS don't make it more difficult. There is just a process to follow in terms of which order you bleed things in. 90% of it is common sense and just like bleeding the brakes on anything else. Still, if you don't have a vacuum bleeding tool, it's about the same price as buying a good one and doing it yourself, so up to you if it makes sense to get the tools to do it yourself more easily. Respond if you need the procedure outlined.
 

JRE

Going to hell on scholarship
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
811
Location
Cincinnati OH
Thanks Eric...I'm all for having the shop do it. I don't mind changing oil, filter, gear oil, etc or doing the little things like adjusting cables, spokes and whatnot but if I can have a shop I trust do the work for a reasonable price, I have better ways to spend my time. I much prefer to ride than wrench :)

I think I've mentioned before, I've reached the age in life where I've begun to realize how precious time is and can afford to offload chores to others when it makes sense to do so. I don't think I'll ever look back and say, gee I wish I spent more time working on the bike, mowing the lawn, fussing with the landscaping, etc. I'm sure many of the "aging" guys can agree but that's a whole other discussion ;)
 

Jono49

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Scottish Borders
+1 for the Vacuum brake bleading tool ::008:: Life bleeding brakes get's a lot easier using one of these!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/262446260313?lpid=122&chn=ps&adgroupid=27378760866&rlsatarget=pla-181484340306&adtype=pla&poi=&googleloc=1007329&device=c&campaignid=620865095&crdt=0

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-VS820-Brake-Clutch-Bleeding-System-Fluid-Bleed-Tool-2-5-ltr-Bleeder-UA-/391255571438?hash=item5b18a63bee:g:CUUAAOSwuTxV8GAC

I have one of these, and spare parts are available easily, and what made me buy one was the fact I used one in a Mercedes dealership for years where myself and 5 other technicians used it every day, the rubber bit that goes over the nipple got worn and that's about the only thing that ever went wrong!
 

EricV

Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
8,444
Location
Tupelo, MS
I have a similar version of that tool Jono49, and couldn't agree with you more. I've used it for business for a dozen years when I wrenched on Miatae and ever since for my personal cars and bikes and it's never had a single issue. Makes life so much easier, assuming you have a compressed air source! ::008::
 
R

RonH

Guest
I'm aging as well, but at 56yrs I still do my own work because of the old saying " if you want it done right, do it yourself". I've been down the "let the dealer" do the work under warranty and recalls road, and just those are enough. To say I had some bad experiece would be an understatement, I took a car in for a simple weld job recall and they started the car on fire and I had to drive like 6 months with a burn't melted interior while they waited for parts. I prefer to not worry of whether my motorcycle is burned, or otherwise ruined. I can't count the posts of guys that have brake calipers fall off ect, ect after dealer work. I do it myself, I know what I did. Trust others and you are wise to know and trust the others that do the work. There are many good mechanics, but many more that are not so good so be leary is my advice.
 

regulator

Active Member
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
398
Location
Philadelphia, PA USA
Another possibility is the Motion Pro bleeder.

https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0143

Super easy and inexpensive. There are similar products on eBay if you want to save even more.
 

Kevhunts

"For every one you see, you probably missed three"
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
747
Location
Delaware, USA
If you have the service manual and a paper clip , you can test the ABS pump, valves, etc. and circulate the fluid inside right in your garage. Flush the system normally first, then flush the system again after the test.
 

holligl

Find the road less traveled...
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
2,327
Location
IL/AZ
Is a single container enough to do the full brake system and clutch? I guess I will use the Yamaha fluid to avoid any composition interaction.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 

Dogdaze

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,040
Location
Solothurn, Switzerland
holligl said:
Is a single container enough to do the full brake system and clutch? I guess I will use the Yamaha fluid to avoid any composition interaction.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
How much is a single container? 500ml should be more than enough.
 

holligl

Find the road less traveled...
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
2,327
Location
IL/AZ
8 Oz bottles. When I picked it up the Dealer indicated it depends on your flushing process. For example if you exercise the ABS and then re-bleed you will use more. I went ahead and got two just in case.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 

holligl

Find the road less traveled...
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
2,327
Location
IL/AZ
Kevhunts said:
If you have the service manual and a paper clip , you can test the ABS pump, valves, etc. and circulate the fluid inside right in your garage. Flush the system normally first, then flush the system again after the test.
Can you clarify which of the four connections are closed (or the wiring of test connector 90890-03149) for the test on 4-79 - 4-80?
Based on the pictures in the manual, I would assume the top two, but I would rather know than assume.

Wiring diagram item 66 ABS test coupler shows a light blue top left, Black top right, Light green bottom left, and white/red bottom right.
 

Kevhunts

"For every one you see, you probably missed three"
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
747
Location
Delaware, USA
holligl said:
Can you clarify which of the four connections are closed (or the wiring of test connector 90890-03149) for the test on 4-79 - 4-80?
Based on the pictures in the manual, I would assume the top two, but I would rather know than assume.

Wiring diagram item 66 ABS test coupler shows a light blue top left, Black top right, Light green bottom left, and white/red bottom right.
Jump the sky blue to black wires.
 
Top