best tyre

[terryth]

Yes, but it's like my 4wd land rover. Sure I may use it day to day and put lots of highway miles on it, that a good set of off road tires aren't ideal for, but you want it to perform in pursuit of the awesome off-road stuff that you take trips specifically to do, maybe only a few times a year, even though its probably a small percentage of the overall miles. With the tenere, I'll ride it 600 miles to Arkansas to be able to ride it on a 100-200 miles off-road and off pavement, then another 600 to get back home over a 3-day weekend. Even though the majority of the miles are on tarmac, I am interested in having perform better and be fun to ride in scenic off road stuff, not the best performing for the boring highway drive to and from the fun stuff. For a vehicle, I want it to be good for for fun and exiting stuff, even though it may a be a small percentage of the overall miles instead of being the best for the boring stuff and not as good as it could be in the stuff that you would buy an adventure bike or a jeep for in the first place.

Quote from: viewdvb on Today at 09:02:45 am
I ride ONLY tarmac and I bet 99% of all adventure bike miles are on tarmac, despite what owners like to believe.
I'll take that bet. How much?

 

[snakebitten]

Terryth

I like your S10 strategy.

 

[sail2xxs]

Finally, as promised here are pics of the K-60s that were on my S10 for the past 25,397 miles. I used a penny for reference on the rear tire in one of the pictures. The tires were mounted in February; the vast majority of the miles were on highways with the usual indicated speed being between 75 and 80 MPH. Temperatures the tires were used in ranged between 16 - 106 F. No dynabeads, etc. were used for this set, though the replacement set has dynabeads for balancing. I'm curious to see how much difference they make. The front tire showed some cupping, but not an excessive amount. The rear was fairly squared off, but given the type of riding I generally get to do, that is to be expected. Both tires had a good bit of tread remaining - the rear easily had another 4-5K miles or more based on the wear bars, and the front had at least 5k left in it. The rear showed splits at the base of several tread blocks; not knowing how deep they might be, and depending on the bike for daily commuting, I didn't want to push things too far. After over 41,000 miles of riding, I have approximiately 50% remaining on the original front brake pads, and about 60% remaining on the first set of replacement rear pads (Yamaha OEM).

Chris

 

[dcstrom]

Chris, that is bloody amazing. You have something in common with Lorenzo, you must ride "smooth like butter"! I have less than half that mileage and about the same amount of wear. I'm using dynabeads but not going to try to blame them for my reduced mileage! I doubt they show any improvement for you. Which is as it should be assuming this set was balanced some other way in the first place.

Given these are mostly road miles, it's a pity that Heidenau (or somebody) doesn't make a more road-biased tire that gets similar mileage. I've seen some reports of the K76 (Heidenau that's similar to the Tourance or the Battlewings) on GS's, and they seem to only get similar mileage to those other tires.



Trevor

 

[sail2xxs]

Trevor -

I had ME-880s on my VStrom for 12k miles - they could easily have gone to at least 18K or further; I traded the VStrom for the S10, so I can't be sure.

BTW, do you have the start of your route figured out?

Chris

 

[Dualsport Africa]

Mike, I'll try to be gentle. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, including this forum, but direct reports from individuals with personal, first hand knowledge are a lot more reliable than a vendor report on a tire test by a rental company. Donaldb has first hand experience with the E-07 on an S10. He's also in South Africa, where there is typically a higher mix of off pavement riding than here in the US. 7500 kms = 4660 miles.

The rental fleet report you link to is also in South Africa. Most likely, they have their numbers backwards.
Think about it for a minute. That doesn't make any sense at all. The less powerful, lighter bike is getting less tire life? ??? No, I don't think so. They are not going to get 8000km more on the rear of the S10 than they got on the XT660. Not ever, under any circumstances or conditions.

It makes a lot more sense that those figures are for the opposite bikes. In other words, the XT660 is getting 15,000km (9321 mi) average with 18,000km (11185 mi) and the XT1200 is getting 8000km (4971 mi) with a max of 10,000km (6214 mi).

Add to all of that, the completely different conditions and they are rental bikes with different riders all the time. Who knows how they get ridden? Donaldb knows how he rides because he's probably the only rider on the bike.

Even if their numbers are correct, you are still talking about approximately 10,000 miles of tire life, at best. I consistently get 12,000 miles out of K60s, judging from the first one I wore out and the second one on now with 10,389 miles and good tread left. I know that figure is exact, because I keep a tire log, and always have for my bikes. Here's a pic I just took.

You asked why no one was using the Mitas E-07 tires, [sic] in the US. Bottom line, they aren't really available here. Why would I bother ordering from Canada when I can order tires from a US seller? The exchange rate is fairly flat, but the pricing in Canada is usually higher than the US on the same items. The oem headlight protector was about $73 US before they refused to sell it here for DOT reasons, and that little item cost me $132+ shipping from a Canadian Yamaha dealer.

The Mitas tires look like a decent offering. The E-07 is not as open tread design as the K60 and from all accounts, doesn't wear as well either. But we all have different needs. Realistically, the wear of the E-07 is probably on par with most dual-sport tires sold in the US now. Price wise, the Shinko 705 is likely cheaper than the Mitas E-07 will ever be, and may offer comparable tread life for US conditions.

It would be great if you can find a set of Mitas E-07s and try them out. You will then be able to share your first hand experience with us on that tire, which would be an excellent addition to the forum knowledge base. ::008::

Hey guys, Im the guy who has claimed the average of 15000 - 18000km on a rear EO7 on our Super Ten's (Craig Marshall - dualsportafrica.com & motorbikehire.co.za)
We had clients do a trip from Cape Town to Vic falls and back on Super Tens(11500km ) about 80% tarred roads with traction control on - and the tyres were still in great shape, the bikes them went back into Namibia for another 5500km) and then they were done.
I also attribute the extended life of the EO7 150's to the miracle product we use for puncture prevention called (Air-Seal) and it really works. It keeps the tyre running at a cooler temp, and totally prevents punctures. In fact to date we haven’t had punctures on our tubless 1200's and tubbed 660's in close to 2 years and an insane 490 000km over 10 bikes. Not one puncture.

So I thought I would just chip in and confirm the claims. We do an average of 15000km on a rear, but we have had two bikes do up to 17000km and a bit.
Craig M

 

[Rasher]

I guess you get lots of steady cruising miles in at sensible speeds.

My local runs are point and squirt rides with lots of acceleration and braking, even if I commute to work it is still quite up and down.

Never got over 5k miles (8k Kilometres) out of any rear tyre on any bike in the last 10+ years, average seems to be 4-5k on sport touring tyres (Roadsmarts, Tourance EXP etc.) Adventure bikes seem to do 8-10k on the fronts whereas sportsbike fronts only last another 50% so happier with two rears to a front being easily possible - threw so many part worn fronts away on sportsbikes.

I think where you ride is every a bit as much of a factor as how you ride, only useful comparison is tyre life between two tyres from same rider.

On my old ZZR forum owners reprted anywhere from under 1.5k up to over 5k from the OE tyres, but everyone pretty much doubled it when switching tyres, but again I may get @4k from a Roadsmart where others could get 6-7k.

 

[scott123007]

I guess you get lots of steady cruising miles in at sensible speeds.

My local runs are point and squirt rides with lots of acceleration and braking, even if I commute to work it is still quite up and down.

Never got over 5k miles (8k Kilometres) out of any rear tyre on any bike in the last 10+ years, average seems to be 4-5k on sport touring tyres (Roadsmarts, Tourance EXP etc.) Adventure bikes seem to do 8-10k on the fronts whereas sportsbike fronts only last another 50% so happier with two rears to a front being easily possible - threw so many part worn fronts away on sportsbikes.

I think where you ride is every a bit as much of a factor as how you ride, only useful comparison is tyre life between two tyres from same rider.

On my old ZZR forum owners reprted anywhere from under 1.5k up to over 5k from the OE tyres, but everyone pretty much doubled it when switching tyres, but again I may get @4k from a Roadsmart where others could get 6-7k.

Rasher,
Everything you have said here is spot on. Funny, just by reading these tire mileage comparisons, I can tell who I would want to ride with or not. More than 5000 miles out of a rear? Not riding our pace! lol

 

[snakebitten]

I read about the great mileage folks were getting from the K60's. Figured no way that I would get near that much.
I was OK with that though. Been killing rear tires my whole life in far less than 5000 miles even.

But sorry, this rear K60 I have on there now is just short of 10,000 miles. Never seen anything like it. I have a new one sittin on the back porch. Got it a long time ago thinking I would need it long before now.

I'm changing it at my next service NO MATTER WHAT.

 

[EricV]

Rasher,
Everything you have said here is spot on. Funny, just by reading these tire mileage comparisons, I can tell who I would want to ride with or not. More than 5000 miles out of a rear? Not riding our pace! lol

::025:: ::025:: ::025:: ::025:: ::025::
Great post Scott. It's good to understand your limitations.
<further comments deleted>

 

[donaldb]

Finally got new K60 on my tenere after mitas E07 was worn out.

Done about 1500 km on them, on road and off.

Dry tar:
The K60 on tar is definitely better, feels more stable and sure footed. Corners really well and good positive feedback. Does have a higher whine though. The mitas did corner well, had no faults with tar. Got serious whine after about half way through their life.

Wet tar:
The K60 does have a habit of stepping out, and have to be a bit weary on entering corners, once in the corner, found them to be more stable.  The Mitas performed well in the wet.

Gravel:
K60 performs well, bike hits traction control easily though, always on tc2 on the gravel. The mitas is delicately far more secure on the gravel, and found it does not hit traction control as easily, but gets going instead. Both are very secure around corners.

Wet gravel:
K60 slips far easier than the Mitas, which is far more secure and does not side step like the K60.

Mud:
K60 is side ways, got to be careful on the throttle. Mitas had very little snake effect. Both cases will have traction control responding.

Mileage:
Have never run the K60 to end yet, the Mitas gave me 8000km, which I am sure the K60 will out do that with ease.

front:
No problems with the front tyres. Both seemed very much the same.

Decision:
Keeping the K60 front, but will be removing the rear and returning to Mitas. The mitas might not give me the mileage, but prefer the performance by far. Anyone in South Africa wanting to buy a good second hand rear K60?





Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[viewdvb]

A tyre that can last 25000 miles on a 1200cc motorcycle - wow! On the other hand, that rubber must be DAMN hard. It wouldn't be my first choice for strictly tarmac use, especially in the wet.

 

[sail2xxs]

I've been quite happy with the rain performance of the K-60s. I don't ride very aggressively in the wet, so other folks' experience might be different. You are right baout the rubber, though if I remember correctly there is a different compound in the center tread from the outer treads.

So far this year I've been averaging somewhat over 4k miles/month. I don't have the budget, spare time or inclination to replace tires every 6-10 weeks, so the longevity of the K-60s is important to me. It's also nice to have the bike ready to hit the trails when I get the opportunity!

Chris

 

[Yamaguy55]

Due to Isaac coming through our area this past weekend, I finally got around to pulling off the BWs that came on the Tenere. I have 4400+ miles on the bike, and the rear was as close to done as I would want to ride on. Unlike many others, I don't commute on my Tenere, but that's not important, it merely explains the low mileage after a year of ownership. I decided I didn't want to give up the road manners, and while the beast is certainly dirt capable, I'd rather use my WRR for true off road. In the event I end up on an extended trip and requirements change, the tire selection most likely will too.

That said, I fitted TR91 Dunlops front and rear. The BattleWings were surprisingly competent and quite good 90/10 tires with one notable exception: they would slip when on cold and/or wet roads. You could feel the rear step out and then grab on the corners, so much so that the first time it happened, I actually stopped and got off to look to see if oil or something had gotten onto the rear tire. In this way, they are very similar to the TW301/TW302s that come on my WR250R: they even thought about cold wet pavement and they lost most of the traction. (the WRR now wears D606s: every bit as good on road under any conditions, and a wholenuther world off road)

Today was the test ride: yesterday was mostly comprised of swift moving squalls and enough rain to discourage me from a test run. I had to go pick up something a few towns over, which meant I had country, mountain road, city, four lane, and stop and go traffic: a substantial mix. Plus, PennDot has become fixated with chipsealing everything around here, plus it rained this morning. The 60+ mile loop showed me that the TR91s are notably better than the BWs on every surface. I had several chip covered steep very curvy sections that hadn't dried out yet, and they gripped there as well as the BWs did on dry smooth warm pavement, perhaps even better. They had much better feel, and felt as good if not better than the RoadSmarts on my FZ.

The front needed no weights for balance, but the rear did. Even after the thrashing I gave the Tenere last fall over on the State Forest roads which resulted in the rock dented header, the spokes needed very little attention. I gave them all about 1/8 turn tighter, and removed about .020" worth of runout in the rear wheel while I had the tires off. The front was less than .015" total, so I left it alone.

I don't often put 4K on one bike in a year, so longevity means less to me than grip. I've obviously been on the road more in the last year than in the several before that. Tenere ownership seems to cause that. ::26:: If I get to where I ride more frequently or more distant, I'll reevaluate. But for my uses at this point, I'm very pleased with the first 60+ miles on the Dunlops. The grip and feel are exactly what I was looking for. Feels almost like a sport tire on the mountain curves. I'll update about the 10-15% offroad they are supposed to be used for.

I hope someone finds this useful. Maybe not the best tire, but certainly a good one.

 

[Rasher]

The BattleWings were surprisingly competent and quite good 90/10 tires with one notable exception: they would slip when on cold and/or wet roads. You could feel the rear step out and then grab on the corners, so much so that the first time it happened, I actually stopped and got off to look to see if oil or something had gotten onto the rear tire. ...

I hope someone finds this useful. Maybe not the best tire, but certainly a good one.

Very useful thanks ::008::

That's exactly how I found the Battlewings that came with a used GS I bought, I got it in the "fall" (as you Merican's call it) and on one of my first ride outs on a nice, but cool day, I was surprised how easily the rear would move, either when throwing it into a bend, or on bumps it would hop across the road a bit.

After that I used a pair of Tourance EXP's and then switched to Roadsmarts, was chuffed when my Tenere turned up with EXP's and not the Deathwings, but at bang on 3.5k the rear is toast, got an almost new EXP of a GS owner for £50 which will go on this weekend and should see me through winter (and see out the best of what the front has left)

The Tourance EXP's grip quite well, I certainly can't stress them in the dry, but the Roadsmarts always "felt" better at the front and gave me more confidence on the GS, and were definately better in the wet. All TR91 reviews and owner comments have been good, the only criticism I have ever seen is wear rates - but can't see them being any worse than the EXP's.

 

[Yamaguy55]

Very useful thanks ::008::

That's exactly how I found the Battlewings that came with a used GS I bought, I got it in the "fall" (as you Merican's call it) and on one of my first ride outs on a nice, but cool day, I was surprised how easily the rear would move, either when throwing it into a bend, or on bumps it would hop across the road a bit.

After that I used a pair of Tourance EXP's and then switched to Roadsmarts, was chuffed when my Tenere turned up with EXP's and not the Deathwings, but at bang on 3.5k the rear is toast, got an almost new EXP of a GS owner for £50 which will go on this weekend and should see me through winter (and see out the best of what the front has left)

The Tourance EXP's grip quite well, I certainly can't stress them in the dry, but the Roadsmarts always "felt" better at the front and gave me more confidence on the GS, and were definately better in the wet. All TR91 reviews and owner comments have been good, the only criticism I have ever seen is wear rates - but can't see them being any worse than the EXP's.

I was a bit put off by the reported wear rates as well, but the more I looked into it, it seemed as though the front wore as fast as the rear, and the rear lasted about as long as the usual suspects. Since I will only reuse a front with the same brand rear (there, now I've gone and started it, haven't I?) like I did with the FZ and WRR, I don't really care at this point if they're both gone by 4500-5K. They were quite easy to change here at home with tire irons, so if I have to swap every year, I can use a rainy day to do it. I was going to have the shop do it, but then decided to check the spokes, runout, bearings, pull the final drive, everything. I wasn't going to pay for that, so did it myself. The Parts Unlimited balance/truing stand was ideal for that. Being steel, I put my magnetic base dial indicator on it and easily checked runout. Along with the Motion Pro rim protectors, it was an easy job and I took my time and did it right. Yamaha put the axles in dry, and the rear one was trying to corrode itself to the bearings and spacers. Not anymore.

I thought the BWs did very well playing hot-rod on rough back roads, but my impression right now is that the Dunlops will be much better everywhere due to not only the traction, but the feel: very neutral, yet planted: lots of feedback. If Dunlop can make the same thing only another 2-3 K longevity, it will be ideal for my uses. I bought the Tenere originally not to play globe trotter, but to able to bring my wife along; this or an FJR, Sprint GT, etc. Where we live the Tenere was the natural. Recently, she's had some health problems that put that on hold, so I'll use the Tenere for a good all rounder as it was made for in the meantime. When she's up to it, I'll decide then what rubber changes if any. One of the selling points of the TR91s was behavior with passenger aboard. I'd imagine very well indeed. I realize that 60+/- miles isn't much of a test, but the difference was immediately noticeable.

 

[viewdvb]

I have concluded that the usage of S10s in the US is very different from Europe. It seems Americans really do take them off-road a fair bit. That is because they still have a huge empty country (I've travelled most of it over the last 40 years) with lots of space where the tarmac runs out. Treasure it! In the UK we still have a small number of ancient "green roads" which have vehicular rights but the authorities are steadily working to make them inaccessible to anyone but walkers and cyclists. We have even fewer forest roads where you can ride, sometimes needing written permission. Private farm tracks don't count. Some areas like Wales and Scotland have more possibilities but, whatever your inclination, setting out to ride on the rough is generally impractical and actually TRAVELLING from A to B off road is very rarely LEGALLY possible. Our European cousins fare little better though Spain has some fine off-road routes. In future, take my comments to exclude you lucky Yanks.
So, I use road tyres. I too have always kept detailed records of my tyre consumption. Now I have some significant mileage under my S10 wheels, I can report that the Conti Road Attack IIs I use are giving 5-6000 miles on the rear and over 10,000 on the front. This compares with 3000-3500 rear on my previous sport tourers and 5-6000 front for many different makes of tyre. (Strangely, my big heavy ST1300 Honda was the previous best on tyres getting 4-5000 from a rear but only 5-6000 from the front). I am surprised because the S10 tyres are narrower than my previous bikes and I expected more wear. My riding style has not changed nor my speeds, averages nor loads. The S10 is not a light bike though lighter than most sports tourers of similar performance. How does it make the tyres last? Maybe it's in the power delivery otherwise I've no idea. Any theories?

 

[viewdvb]

Oh, I forgot to mention. The post that attributes good tyre wear to the cooling effect of tyre sealant seems strange. All manufacturers go to great trouble to make sure their tyres warm up to the right temperature, the quicker the better according to their sales blurb. That "right" temperature is hotter than you might expect - certainly too hot to touch for more than an instant. Why, then, try to cool them. If the manufacturers could get increased mileage from running cooler, wouldn't they try to build that in to the spec?

 

[Rasher]

I can report that the Conti Road Attack IIs I use are giving 5-6000 miles on the rear and over 10,000 on the front. This compares with 3000-3500 rear on my previous sport tourers ........

I am surprised because the S10 tyres are narrower than my previous bikes and I expected more wear. My riding style has not changed nor my speeds, averages nor loads. The S10 is not a light bike though lighter than most sports tourers of similar performance. How does it make the tyres last? Maybe it's in the power delivery otherwise I've no idea. Any theories?

What did you get on other tyres with the Tenere :question:

Glad to hear about Conti's, I got gifted a barely worn front Road Attack II which I thought I would get a rear to match at some point when I am in need of a pair

I actually get the same mileage on this bike, I had a ZZR1400 which the OEM tyres (Utterly crap BT-014s) only managed 1500 on the rear, but with Roadsmarts managed over 4k on a few rears, switched to a GS and got just over 4k from a Roadsmart as well, and have just finished off the OE Tourance on the Tenere at 3800 miles - and I know these wear quick so again would expect 4-5k from Roadsmarts and over 4k from the Road Attack.

I would also not have the Tenere as being lighter than Sports Tourers, my 1400 was about 40Kg's lighter on manufacturers claimed weight :exclaim: With Triumph ST's, Honda Blackbirds and Suzuki Busa's all being of similar weight.

 

[jajpko]

I liked my EXP OEM tires as far as handling. They stuck really well in wet and dry, but did not last. I wore the rear out in 3750.
My next tires were the Conti Trail Attacks. I really liked these tires. They transitioned very well and felt very light on the turn in.

My next set is the OEM Bridgestones. These tires are good, but not as good as the Conti's. They feel heavy and do not transition as well.
I think they will wear well, but I think I got 7,000 out of the rear Conti.
Conti TA for me.