Another fragile GS

[dcstrom]

Hate to rag on BMW ( ) but seriously, I've seen too many examples of GS's with broken swingarms. Therefore I AM going to rag on them!

The other pics I've seen have been after the crash... so without seeing what the accident was like, it's a bit hard to criticize... but while this is a big crash without a doubt, the bike didn't actually HIT anything, and it's not really that out-of-the-ordinary in terms of adventure motorcycling. The bike looks mostly ridable with some running repairs, except for the swingarm. I'd rate the GS about a C- for fragility, not good in an adventure bike!

Go to about 3:50 for the crash.

GR2JOR - 2010 - Syria Jordan Adventure Part 5

 

[autoteach]

I am sitting here wondering if the swingarm didn't break and then cause the get off. I have never seen a perfect operating anything go into a tail wag like that.

 

[GrahamD]

Hit a mound, the dust started looking a bit different from the rear, then it gets weavy, then it goes down.

Crack, then instability then accident is what I reckon.

I have seen a lot of this mainly on R1200GS. A few R1200RT's as well, but not nearly as many.

 

[markjenn]

When you're at speed in random terrain like this, anything can happen, especially if you're not a very good dirt rider and you don't make the proper response after the initial upset. I doubt the cause was mechanical failure. And hard crashes break stuff. Nothing unusual there, Yamaha, Honda, BMW, whatever.

- Mark

 

[dcstrom]

When you're at speed in random terrain like this, anything can happen, especially if you're not a very good dirt rider and you don't make the proper response after the initial upset. I doubt the cause was mechanical failure. And hard crashes break stuff. Nothing unusual there, Yamaha, Honda, BMW, whatever.

- Mark

True, but why is it I only ever see GS's with broken swingarms? (well, F800's as well, now I think about it...).

 

[GrahamD]

True, but why is it I only ever see GS's with broken swingarms? (well, F800's as well, now I think about it...).

Because they get cracks then fail. Read a few GS fail stories that went like. "The bike started feeling a bit weird then bang....". bla bla diferent stuff, maybe an off maybe not...found broken swing arm. It's not a HUGE percentage but its a few.

They went light for a reason. BMW didn't wake up one morning and decide to make things stupid light for the heck of it. They were stuck between marketing wishes "a 1200cc all terrain bike that weighs 100Kg" and an engineering reality that "shits going to break at lower levels of abuse".

It wasn't a bad move profit wise so as a corporate it was the right move. If people are willing to make excuses for it then it's even better.

It's not the only bike that does it though. I have seen Stroms with broken frames, it's just not that common.

The lighter you go, the lower levels things will break and if 99% of GS's are not doing any more than tarmac 99% of the time then that should be fine 99% of the time.

Even had a friend at a track day on a Triumph with pretty much the same story. Bike starting feeling weird, got unstable, went down found broken swing arm. Triumph blamed him for abusing the bike. Sound familiar?

 

[markjenn]

True, but why is it I only ever see GS's with broken swingarms? (well, F800's as well, now I think about it...).

Dunno, but when I go into Google Images and type "broken swingarm", I see all brands of bikes represented. There's a lot of reasons to worry about BMW reliability and durability; breaking the swingarm is not one I would be worried about at all.

- Mark

 

[~TABASCO~]

Where did the right pannier go ? It must of burned off re entering the earths atmosphere.... That was a nasty fall, that bike is TOAST !

 

[GrahamD]

Where did the right pannier go ? It must of burned off re entering the earths atmosphere.... That was a nasty fall, that bike is TOAST !

It certainly looked bad. Debris flying all over. The rider survived so that's good. For a minute there...

 

[Rasher]

The Shaft's themselves have a more common habbit of snapping at the Universal Joint, perhaps that went first and locked it all up :question:

We are never going to know for sure, but these fellows seemed to be experienced and had been doing OK on that teraain for a while, maybe a big rock, maybe the UJ failed first, maybe the swingarm just snapped, all I know is this seems far more common on the GS than other similar bikes.

I love the quick wheel changes on my GS, but after finding out how fragile the whole Final Drive, Shaft and Swingarm was it put me off another single sider for a while, I think Honda and Ducati have got these good (but only proven on road bikes) but the GS issues really put me off the Triumph, especially as it is their first bash at a single sided shaft drive, but if you look at the Triumphs FD / Swingarm it looks about four times the size of the BMW one.

The Yamaha double sider looks a much better bet to me, I am no engineer but you do not need to be to see that the twisting stresses from the single sided designs must be huge and demand far more than twice the metal of one side of s single sider for the same strength.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Your correct on the load.. Its unbelievable.. Ive seen the BMW bearing and that is scary to have all that torsional load on that big bearing. You have so many load factors on the single side swing arm for sure. Then BMW uses a large hollow cast swing arm that seems to have thin walls.... There is really no excuse in my mind...... A world leader in cars & bikes, they have the money and resources to make a bullet proof motorcycle. NO ONE should EVER see this again. NO ONES life and safety should EVER be in danger of this engineering disaster. IMOP, shame on you BMW for not re engineering this years ago... If I see or hear of the "new" 2013 GS swing arm breaking I personally will NEVER consider buying a BMW for the remainder of my life... no way... Im sure everyone has read or seen the lady in AK on a BMW 650. The lower fork leg casting sheered right off and damn near killed this lady......... What the hell is BMW doing over there ?

OK,,, I feel a little better now........................

 

[RIVA]

Your correct on the load.. Its unbelievable.. Ive seen the BMW bearing and that is scary to have all that torsional load on that big bearing. You have so many load factors on the single side swing arm for sure. Then BMW uses a large hollow cast swing arm that seems to have thin walls.... There is really no excuse in my mind...... A world leader in cars & bikes, they have the money and resources to make a bullet proof motorcycle. NO ONE should EVER see this again. NO ONES life and safety should EVER be in danger of this engineering disaster. IMOP, shame on you BMW for not re engineering this years ago... If I see or hear of the "new" 2013 GS swing arm breaking I personally will NEVER consider buying a BMW for the remainder of my life... no way... Im sure everyone has read or seen the lady in AK on a BMW 650. The lower fork leg casting sheered right off and damn near killed this lady......... What the hell is BMW doing over there ?

OK,,, I feel a little better now........................

::026:: ::026:: ::026::

 

[viewdvb]

In prehistoric times I bought a new R90S. When I came to sell it back to the dealer in due course, he pointed out an oil weep from the clutch area (engine shaft oil seal). "Have you had the sump update?" he asked, forgetting that it had been his responsibility to advise me of recalls and updates. "No - what was the change?" " Oh they had trouble with that seal so they lowered the oil level" What was the modification supplied by the much vaunted Teutonic giant? A longer dipstick!!!! That was the first and last BMW I have ever owned. Even a dog learns! But not the guy with a 1200GS I met in the tyre depot having new rubber fitted. He related the tale of his first GS trashing the final drive at 50K (out of warranty) so he bought another which, surprise, surprise, trashed the rear drive at 48K so he bought a third, the one he was now riding. With that kind of blind loyalty/stupidity, they can continue to produce bikes with serious flaws providing that the failure rate is an acceptable figure for their bottom line. The damage to their reputation is apparently easily shrugged off, especially by BMW owners.

 

[Rasher]

Even a dog learns! But not the guy with a 1200GS I met in the tyre depot having new rubber fitted. He related the tale of his first GS trashing the final drive at 50K (out of warranty) so he bought another which, surprise, surprise, trashed the rear drive at 48K..... The damage to their reputation is apparently easily shrugged off, especially by BMW owners.

He was lucky to get 50k, I have heard many tales of under 10k on bikes right up until the last 2010 version, and some folk who have had 3 or 4 fail in under 50k, and they nearly all go and buy another BMW ???

When I was examining oil pissing out of my GS forks in the Alps in 2011 a German chap came across to see if I was OK, he had a brand new GS and realted the tale of his old one having the same issue three times, but it was not as bad as the final drive and gearbox failures that followed on his last GS, yet he still bought another ::010:: Many BMW owners seem to be in some alternate universe and are blind to their faults, even when they experience them first hand.

Here in the real world we are concerned because some bikes have had an issue starting once or twice and think Yamaha should do something about it, in the first three years of the 1200GS there was a bazillion recalls and most of the first models suffered an FPC failure, EWS Failure and Final Drive Failure - and for many of the "First edition" of the GS owners all three - and sometimes more than once per fault.

I know they sold in bigger numbers, but the percentage of BMW bikes that break down in the first two years must be at least triple that of the worst Japanese manufacturer, what they do very well is resolve the faults (often out of warranty) and provide a nice cup of freshly ground coffee which seems to make it all right for most of their followers, the company is truly blessed with the sort of loyalty that allows them such shoddy engineering and obvious corner cutting that no other manufacturer would ever get away with.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

With that kind of blind loyalty/stupidity, they can continue to produce bikes with serious flaws providing that the failure rate is an acceptable figure for their bottom line. The damage to their reputation is apparently easily shrugged off, especially by BMW owners.

Ever meet a Harley loyalist?

 

[Kevhunts]

I'm sure there are failures with other brands but they must be rare because you never hear about them, while BMW's keep coming up in the news. 650 fork tubes, 1200 swing arms/diff failures. Maybe they are rare too but it scared me away from that brand.

BMW....I think you have a problem.

 

[markjenn]

I'm sure there are failures with other brands but they must be rare because you never hear about them, while BMW's keep coming up in the news. 650 fork tubes, 1200 swing arms/diff failures.

When making anecdotal observations about problems "in the news", keep in mind relatively fleet sizes. BMW probably has 5x more adventure bikes in the field than all other mfgs combined and continues to outsell everyone by a very wide margin. I'd bet there are perhaps 4K total S10's out in the field right now, compared to perhaps 500K F and R GS models. BMW's R1200GS continues to outsell the S10 by a factor of ten or more.

- Mark

 

[offcamber]

When making anecdotal observations about problems "in the news", keep in mind relatively fleet sizes. BMW probably has 5x more adventure bikes in the field than all other mfgs combined and continues to outsell everyone by a very wide margin. I'd bet there are perhaps 4K total S10's out in the field right now, compared to perhaps 500K F and R GS models. BMW's R1200GS continues to outsell the S10 by a factor of ten or more.

- Mark

That doesn't make it a better bike just better marketing....


I know that wasn't your point but even with cusory research BMWs seem to have a lot of problems with weak dealer/ manufacturer support.

 

[greg the pole]

what would all the GS owners talk about when they get together at starbucks? ::002::
It's a common topic, an ice breaker of sorts ::014::
One of the guys we ride with sold his c14 connie to buy a mint GSA, 2009, loaded to the tits, with 30xxx miles. Paid $17-19 large for it.
I promptly bugged him when he expects his rear drive to fail. To my suprise he informed me that the previous owner did it at 28 miles.
He did also tell me that If he wanted to buy a canadian tenere, and equip it to the same level as his GS, he would well have surpassed the $19 dollar mark ???
to each his own.

 

[EricV]

Wow, that sucked for the rider. Classic failure though. I've personally seen this on a bike with 36k on it, never ridden off road, (it was an RT, but the same shaft and rear end design). The crash did not cause the swing arm or drive shaft to break, the driveshaft/u-joint failed, causing extra drag, which on dirt caused the tail wag and crash. You can see him react to the bike doing odd stuff by putting on the brakes. When the u-joint or drive shaft snaps like that it rattles around inside the swing arm channel and can lock the rear wheel too. I've seen that as well. Thankfully for the rider, it was just before coming to a stop and not at speed like this one.

The design is completely screwed. From the single sided swingarm to the two u-joints on the shaft.