Very useful info here. The more, the better.
Airscrew Adjustment to fix off-idle stumble and Throttle Body Sync - w/ pigtails
- Thread starter SpeedStar
- Start date
A heavy duty Amen to that. It help make good chop-choppie, longtime...and 2cylinders much happy like full belly
From pu-pu platter. ::022::
From pu-pu platter. ::022::
Finally tipped the tank and got the Harmonizer out. Air filter still looked like new. Throttle bodies are synched up. Only 4500 miles and a year late. Easy bike to work on.
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Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
That's 3/4 turn out is subjective. Do it if you want, don't do it if you don't want 
But, I might've missed where their was evidence of benefit, other than the EU spec bikes making mention that's how theirs were stock (I think?)
But, I would focus your TBS sync at the areas you've indicated in other threads as having issues in. Granted, spooling the motor up to 5k and holding it there is a little odd for a TBS, so I'd start at the lower end of that range you mentioned.
Then when you're sure it's dialed in at that range, go back and sync at idle till they're both dialed in, or very close. Back and forth till it's good. We're talking miniscule adjustments coming into play here, so a box fan helping keep the motor somewhat cooler might be nice because it might take you 10-15 minutes with the motor running in neutral...
But, I might've missed where their was evidence of benefit, other than the EU spec bikes making mention that's how theirs were stock (I think?)But, I would focus your TBS sync at the areas you've indicated in other threads as having issues in. Granted, spooling the motor up to 5k and holding it there is a little odd for a TBS, so I'd start at the lower end of that range you mentioned.
Then when you're sure it's dialed in at that range, go back and sync at idle till they're both dialed in, or very close. Back and forth till it's good. We're talking miniscule adjustments coming into play here, so a box fan helping keep the motor somewhat cooler might be nice because it might take you 10-15 minutes with the motor running in neutral...
Wistrick said:
Amen to what Karson said...
There has been a lot of purely anecdotal accolades about turning those screws 3/4's of a turn out, but no concrete evidence it does a thing other than perhaps a placebo effect. I did it back when it was all the rage (and I had about 1,000 miles on my bike) and couldn't tell a femto-whit's difference in anything, so I went back to where Yamaha had set them, and I've been happy there the 33,000 miles since.
Better to just carefully synch the TB's and see what happens.
Remember the old tuner's rule...
Only do *ONE* thing at a time so you can actually gauge the difference, and so you know what change was actually an improvement!!!
Dallara
~
FWIW I agree re: at 5k RPMS. I also noticed that the 5/32 hose most of us are using to hook up a Harmonizer is leaky above 2.5-3k rpms - the engine light comes on - presumably a vacuum leak and a damn good reason to not to keep pigtails on there. I cleaned up the ends of the loaner from Karson since it is making its rounds and getting a lot of use but even noticed it on my own DIY TB tool with fresh hoses after a few on and offs the bike.Karson said:That's 3/4 turn out is subjective. Do it if you want, don't do it if you don't want
But, I would focus your TBS sync at the areas you've indicated in other threads as having issues in. Granted, spooling the motor up to 5k and holding it there is a little odd for a TBS, so I'd start at the lower end of that range you mentioned.
Then when you're sure it's dialed in at that range, go back and sync at idle till they're both dialed in, or very close. Back and forth till it's good. We're talking miniscule adjustments coming into play here, so a box fan helping keep the motor somewhat cooler might be nice because it might take you 10-15 minutes with the motor running in neutral...
re: the turn out 3/4 business - I have a theory on that over in the loaner Harmonizer thread:
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=7636.msg157438#msg157438
It's just a theory right now but in summary it's getting bikes back into the vacuum spec range from Yamaha, then you are syncing - there is a better than 50/50 chance I am wrong and some bikes may not need it - remember each one is manufactured independently and there are allowable tolerances in all of this so YMMV and I may be wrong but it makes sense. Yamaha sets that one and then you tune using the other. If your bike is somehow off and you can not get synced properly you may have to adjust the white one a bit and then sync.
I'm with Dallara on this, adjust only the Cyl 2 one if at all possible.
In my case, and I didn't not put it in the other thread, I could not get in sync that way, just could not be done with either my DIY tool or the Harmonizer. I backed the white one out a 1/2 turn and tried again and everything synced up easy peasy. Cyl 2 was too high and the screw all the way in - adjusting it out made it worse. So backing out Cyl 1 and then syncing made sense - it gave me margin to work with and synced right up. It was then in sync verifying on both tools.
That is when my theory came to mind. The numbers on either tool don't perfectly match (before or after) the manual spec but they moved in lock step and very very little even with 1/2 turn -we are talking tiny adjustments/movements go a long way here as far as sync is concerned. I need more garage time to prove the theory and check my measurements but those screws are there so the engine can be adjusted if need be, in my case I actually needed both screws. But only change one thing at a time!
Did the throttle body sync yesterday after reading this whole thread. Piece of cake. I found my T/B's to be in sync at 4000 miles. FYI, I used my Motion Pro mercury sticks. The right side was seated all the way in. Backed it out 3/4's, then backed out the left side until the T/B's were back in sync, which was about 3/4's, but I didn't keep real close track.
Getting set up, I had a little confusion, expressed else where in this tread. I bought a short length of 1/8 inch rubber vacuum tubing and an 1/8-1/8- 3/16 Tee. You need the 1/8th inch barbs to go between the left throttle body and the sensor. I undid the vacuum line at the sensor and plugged it into one eighth inch barb, then plugged the short tubing I bought on to the other eighth inch tube, then plugged that back on to the sensor. This left the 3/16 barb for my manometer tube on the left side. Hooked another manometer tube to the right T/B port after prying the rubber cap off the port.
A tied down strap, hooked to the back of the bike and the tank held the tank up after I released the vent lines from the clasp next to the oil filter.
The result is a much smoother off idle response in both touring and sport modes. Well worth the half hour it took to do this. BTW, I had no stalling issues prior to this operation, just a little low speed surging. It still seems to surge just a little, which the CO mod would probably take care of, however, I'm not going to fool with it anymore. It's not that big of a deal.
Getting set up, I had a little confusion, expressed else where in this tread. I bought a short length of 1/8 inch rubber vacuum tubing and an 1/8-1/8- 3/16 Tee. You need the 1/8th inch barbs to go between the left throttle body and the sensor. I undid the vacuum line at the sensor and plugged it into one eighth inch barb, then plugged the short tubing I bought on to the other eighth inch tube, then plugged that back on to the sensor. This left the 3/16 barb for my manometer tube on the left side. Hooked another manometer tube to the right T/B port after prying the rubber cap off the port.
A tied down strap, hooked to the back of the bike and the tank held the tank up after I released the vent lines from the clasp next to the oil filter.
The result is a much smoother off idle response in both touring and sport modes. Well worth the half hour it took to do this. BTW, I had no stalling issues prior to this operation, just a little low speed surging. It still seems to surge just a little, which the CO mod would probably take care of, however, I'm not going to fool with it anymore. It's not that big of a deal.
Sparko
Member
I did my TBS this past weekend using Karson"s harmonizer (Thank You). I had to back my painted screw out 180 degrees for mine to ballance. Bike is much smoother now (13k miles on bike). Wish I had done it sooner.
No problem, Sparko. I'm going to do a TBS sync on mine sometime soon, and depending on when it's done I may put it back up for folks to use. Shame a nice tool like this is only needed once in a great while. I wish everything I owned worked so smoothly!
tpak's nearing a solution on his, I think he was just tweaking some software smoothing calculations on the readouts.
tpak's nearing a solution on his, I think he was just tweaking some software smoothing calculations on the readouts.
Karson said:
busy drinking beer is more like what I have been doing!I am close. I also have been spending a little time working on how to actually make one of these things and it not be a total rats nest of wires. Trying to come up with an easy DIY plan of sorts. Stay tuned! Beer is a requirement for efficient software coding during ones spare time ::003::
LOL - indeed. My little town has one of its very own! We do have a great selection here for sure.Karson said:
Since we are discussing a metric bike, wouldn't it be more appropriate/easier to source 3.5 or 4mm vacuum hose and caps? Is there such thing as a 4mm T fitting?
In theory yes ... in practice I don't see them in my local parts stores.regulator said:
regulator said:
Well, the only "cap" you need is already on the bike...
And you tell me, when it comes to actual fit and function, when synching throttle bodies and having the necessary tubes seal, what is the fundamental difference between 4.0mm (or 3.5mm) and 1/8" tubing?
And where would you easily and readily source the tubing (and t-fitting), short of trying to order it through your Yamaha dealer?
I've been synching mine S-10 for over 35,000 miles with tubing from Pep Boys, along with doing a couple of other folks' Super Ten's as well, and so far, no issues, problems, or hiccups.
What did you use on your BMW, Regulator?
Dallara
~
Good points, as usual, Dallara. I've helped support my local BMW dealer for years and am just now starting to perform some of the basic maintenance items myself, hence the questions. I saw 3.5mm available on Amazon and thought it might be common, given the preponderance of imported vehicles on the road today.
One or more posters in this 350+ post thread advocated replacing the right side cap with one of better quality, and I figured I'd grab one while at the store. Not really sure how necessary it is, but the ones on my GSA do seem more robust.
I will ask for 1/8" instead of 4mm when I do my shopping.
One or more posters in this 350+ post thread advocated replacing the right side cap with one of better quality, and I figured I'd grab one while at the store. Not really sure how necessary it is, but the ones on my GSA do seem more robust.
I will ask for 1/8" instead of 4mm when I do my shopping.
regulator said:
If one were truly splitting hairs then one would want to be very careful not to use any tubing that was in any way *smaller* in internal diameter than the stock vacuum line or spigots, as that could act as a restrictor that might affect the operation of the synch tool slightly...
However, that said, we are talking about such a tiny amount that I doubt it would even be measurable given the parameters of the discussion. Still, given that one has to use some sort of made-up "T" section to properly do the job it is conceivable that if you used smaller tubing on the left side for this made-up "T" and hooked it up to the synch tool, then hooked the synch tool's own tubing direct to the right side you could be asking for some slight imbalance.
Hence, logic would suggest that if it might be better to err on the tubing for the made-up "T" to be at least as large an internal diameter as the stock tubing, spigots, etc., or larger.
As for the cap... Like I said, I've had my stock cap on (and off) there for 35,000 miles, and no issues... Nor have I heard of anyone having any problems directly related to using the stock cap.
And for the record, I've done each and every synch on my bike, as I know tons of others here have also done.
Just my two centavos... Needless to say, YMMV.
Dallara
~
Good thought but probably as you point out not terribly relevant at the tolerances we are discussing.Dallara said:
My 2 cents to add is that 1/8 seals better than 5/32 in my observation while using a sync tool. With 5/32 I noticed both on my DIY and Karson's harmonizer (which had 5/32 that came along with it) that when revving above 3 or 3.5k the engine trouble light (#1 page 4-3 of the 2012 NA Owner Manual) came on. Switching to 1/8 tubing on my DIY had no material effect on the pressure readings and the light stopped coming on. I assume (usually a bad idea) that it was a minor vacuum leak. Probably the proper size hose supplied by Yamaha prevents this issue since I have never seen it while on the bike and am obviously in that RPM range frequently. I did not isolate it to either TBS port, I just swapped both to the 1/8 tubing I had handy and no more issue. To be clear, it could have also been an issue with the T fitting to the ose as well - I didn't try testing that.
The little cap seems fine to me - the ring on it probably provides more than enough pressure to seal it.
In closing - in a pinch I would not hesitate to use 5/32 hose or caps if that was all I had handy and needed one - I'd try and get a clip or zip tie around it if I saw the light come on indicating a leak. And then I'd get the proper $2 part the next time I had a chance.
Thanks again for the help. I find your two centavos to typically be worth at least that much.Dallara said: