Advice on riding off road - Scary!

[blitz11]

All good advice here, but a big one every one missed is to STAND UP! By standing up, you transfer the center of gravity from the seat to the foot pegs, and you can provide steering input with the strongest muscles in your body. Keep your knees slightly bent to help with the bumps. And until you get more dirt oriented tires, air down off pavement, it makes a huge difference to allow the tires to conform to the surface, rather than skip across the top.

No offense, but the "transfer of center of gravity" argument is completely wrong. A first course in engineering mechanics would show that that is incorrect. If you stand up, YOUR CG rises. The bike's stays the same. Add them up, and the SYSTEM has a higher CG.

What standing up does is create a mechanism by which you can impart a roll moment (or precisely, differential roll moment) to the motorcycle. By differential, i mean the difference between the force imparted on the left and right footpegs. By standing, you can also impart roll moments by pulling up/pushing down on the handlebar. You don't have that same vertical force capability while sitting down. (the handlebar is a pure moment which can be significant as well.)

Here's a thought experiment.

You're standing on the pegs. Both feet are putting equal force on the footpegs. you're putting zero roll moment on the motorcycle.

Now, lift one foot off of the pegs; all of the weight is on the other footpeg. If you weigh 200 pounds, and your footpeg is 1 foot from the longitudinal axis of the bike, you just imparted a 200 ft-lb roll moment onto the bike. You can't do that by shifting your torso location while sitting on the seat. You can do some, but not much. By standing, you can also impart roll moments by pulling up/pushing down (vertically) on the handlebar.

As you maneuver through the woods or trail, you guide the bike with the handlebars, but you affect your lean angle (and therefore propensity to turn) by shifting the load on your feet, imparting a roll moment on the bike. You now have more control authority and an additional degree of freedom to maneuver the bike. sitting, you have the same degrees of freedom, but much less control action due to torso movement. if you're sitting, you can't put a roll moment through the handlebar, either.

standing gives you control authority that you don't have while sitting. More control authority => more ability to guide / control the bike properly.

 

[HeliMark]

I've tried standing up a couple of times, doesn't feel too bad, but I think I may need a second opinion on my positioning. I am not sure If I am standing up correctly as I've heard you need to not be leaning over the bars.. either my arms or short or I need risers because I can't stand straight up, I have to bend forward a little, I am not sure how far forward I am leaning over the tank.. I think this is incorrect. If I stand up perfectly straight to keep weight off the front, my arms are completely 100% extended and I don't think thats good. Tips?

You can do a google search for video's of the proper stance on the bike. A number of them out there. Also, your knees are going to be slightly bent so that you can move forward and backwards to shift weight on/off the front wheel depending on the surface.

Mark

 

[WJBertrand]

Which way you lean has a lot to do with the current situation. Lean back going down or through loose stuff, otherwise I'm mostly neutral. On my old dirt bike I would sit and slide forward to make a sharp turn, but the Super Ténéré doesn't really lend itself to that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[snakebitten]

I was like that at first but hanging out with the guys south of the border was a quick learning experience. You like an hr form my place we should meet up one night or on the weekend and hit some Backroad's.

Doesn't take long to realize that "feeling" of loose marbles (or whatever description) is something NORMAL, once you are running sweep behind a bunch of lunatics on their Teneres blasting each other with their roost down every kind of poor traction scenario you can imagine. lol

Seriously though, as mentioned by others above, Tires, Traction control settings, standing up, and light handedness on the bars, ALL combined make a huge difference. But it doesn't get rid of that "feeling". Instead, it transforms that feeling into an indicator that things are fixing to be far more FUN!

 

[worncog]

Check out Clinton Smout on youtube. Good short training videos with practical information to take to the dirt and practice with.

 

[Defekticon]

Was just out Sunday on the Tenere on some local dirt/gravel roads. Then again on the same roads on my KTM 500 a few days later.

The squirrely part for me is steep descending elevation. Weight on the front tire, on loose gravel gives me the butt pucker. That's where I'd like to get some guidance on technique beyond standing up and getting your weight as far back as possible. I'm used to riding a dirtbike. When in doubt - throttle out. I'm very comfortable with turning off the traction control and steering with the throttle even on the tenere. It's a HOOT, there is so much torque down low it will spin that rear street tire for days. I also push my luck offroad with street tires labeled as 90/10. Similar to the stock BW's, but a harder center stripe for better wear. (Metzler Tourance NEXT). I have a really hard time going over to a Mitas E07 (or more dirt oriented) right now because of how much street riding I still do. I tend to put the car keys down and pick up the keys to the bike at every opportunity, even if it's a quick out to the store.

 

[worncog]

Prior to riding the NMBDR recently, I was in Arkansas riding twisties with the usual crowd on C-14s with Mitas E-07s on the S10. All were shocked that I was scraping pegs and skidplate with knobbies. Don't let the look of the tire deceive you as they do very well in the mountains, on both paved and unpaved roads. My rear tire has around 8k miles on it and is still going strong. Not suggesting a tire thread, but just a comment to the ability of 50/50 tires to do pretty well all-around.

 

[Sierra1]

I tend to put the car keys down and pick up the keys to the bike at every opportunity, even if it's a quick out to the store.

::026:: ::008:: Why wouldn't we. It is easier to get/go anywhere on the Tenere. "We don't need roads where we're going".

 

[Blind Squirrel]

How do you turn the TC off?

 

[Checkswrecks]

How do you turn the TC off?

In neutral and while not moving press the button at the left end of the instrument cluster. Watch the display for TC1 TC2 and TC OFF. It'll reset when the key is turned off.

 

[limey]

Hey Paul! That sounds really great, I hope I can find some time to do that and visit you again! Do you know any beginner friendly roads you would be willing to show me? I'm talking real beginner stuff! ::26:: O

Old Simcoe road just north of Port Perry, it's a nice hard packed gravel Rd. And if you need to change tires we can do that also.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Doesn't take long to realize that "feeling" of loose marbles (or whatever description) is something NORMAL, once you are running sweep behind a bunch of lunatics on their Teneres blasting each other with their roost down every kind of poor traction scenario you can imagine. lol

Seriously though, as mentioned by others above, Tires, Traction control settings, standing up, and light handedness on the bars, ALL combined make a huge difference. But it doesn't get rid of that "feeling". Instead, it transforms that feeling into an indicator that things are fixing to be far more FUN!

LOL - This is one view that you were getting roosted with. I was following poor Mark, who couldn't roost a pigeon with the slippery Shinko on the rear of his bike. It just wasn't hooking up at all, so I stayed fairly unscathed.

Totally worth it to get to places like these!

btw RicoChet - EVERYBODY dropped their bikes - it happens, so leave the boxes off. For example, the way in and out of the last photo is a steep switchback literally above Snake's red Tenere and then it heads to the upper left. That throttle uphill, near stop, full lock left turn, then steep uphill transition into rain ruts was tricky and pulled down one of the Teneres.


Coming up out of this stream doesn't look like much, but I'll 'fess that I had too much throttle on. My goof slid the rear out and brought me down, what with with the right/left tilt and slick slime on the rock. Just part of the game.
::008::

 

[bob dirt]

In neutral and while not moving press the button at the left end of the instrument cluster. Watch the display for TC1 TC2 and TC OFF. It'll reset when the key is turned off.

Mine changes while in gear and not rolling. Just hold the button until it says off. Gen 1 might be different...I don't remember about my '12. Sometimes I wish it would stay put while the engine is off so I don't have to stop and do it like I did 20 times today.

 

[AVGeek]

No offense, but the "transfer of center of gravity" argument is completely wrong. A first course in engineering mechanics would show that that is incorrect. If you stand up, YOUR CG rises. The bike's stays the same. Add them up, and the SYSTEM has a higher CG.

What standing up does is create a mechanism by which you can impart a roll moment (or precisely, differential roll moment) to the motorcycle. By differential, i mean the difference between the force imparted on the left and right footpegs. By standing, you can also impart roll moments by pulling up/pushing down on the handlebar. You don't have that same vertical force capability while sitting down. (the handlebar is a pure moment which can be significant as well.)

Here's a thought experiment.

You're standing on the pegs. Both feet are putting equal force on the footpegs. you're putting zero roll moment on the motorcycle.

Now, lift one foot off of the pegs; all of the weight is on the other footpeg. If you weigh 200 pounds, and your footpeg is 1 foot from the longitudinal axis of the bike, you just imparted a 200 ft-lb roll moment onto the bike. You can't do that by shifting your torso location while sitting on the seat. You can do some, but not much. By standing, you can also impart roll moments by pulling up/pushing down (vertically) on the handlebar.

As you maneuver through the woods or trail, you guide the bike with the handlebars, but you affect your lean angle (and therefore propensity to turn) by shifting the load on your feet, imparting a roll moment on the bike. You now have more control authority and an additional degree of freedom to maneuver the bike. sitting, you have the same degrees of freedom, but much less control action due to torso movement. if you're sitting, you can't put a roll moment through the handlebar, either.

standing gives you control authority that you don't have while sitting. More control authority => more ability to guide / control the bike properly.

I'm always willing to admit I'm wrong, thanks for the excellent description of the difference between sitting and standing!

 

[RicoChet]

Old Simcoe road just north of Port Perry, it's a nice hard packed gravel Rd. And if you need to change tires we can do that also.

Oh yes I've been to port perry many may times, one of my wifes favourite destinations. Just checked google street view on that road and it looks perfect for what I am trying to ride! Thank you for that suggestion! No tire changes for me unfortunately, got a lot more important things to take care of (Like a new baby on the way next month) so I have to deal with what I have!

 

[blitz11]

You were very observant to mention standing, but a common misconception as to why involves that CG argument. I just wanted to explain why standing works (and works well). Once you understand why, the next step is practice to use those roll moments to your advantage. Thanks!

 

[Checkswrecks]

Oh yes I've been to port perry many may times, one of my wifes favourite destinations. Just checked google street view on that road and it looks perfect for what I am trying to ride! Thank you for that suggestion! No tire changes for me unfortunately, got a lot more important things to take care of (Like a new baby on the way next month) so I have to deal with what I have!

The secret to Limey is that he responds to good scotch and whiskey. It's amazing how his attention improves with improvements in the quality and the quantity.


::003::


(Just looking out for you Paul. )

 

[RicoChet]

The secret to Limey is that he responds to good scotch and whiskey. It's amazing how his attention improves with improvements in the quality and the quantity.


::003::


(Just looking out for you Paul. )

That probably works out very well for him because I have a stock of that stuff at home since I don't drink any of it, and keep getting gifted this stuff from people who don't know me better )

 

[trikepilot]

That shit looks rad!!! Tenere's can do that?

 

[Checkswrecks]

LOL - Never get in the way of Trike with his little 10" folding saw!

Great host and leader who is the subject of one of my favorite photos from those days, doing skid plate tests and showing what the big girl can do.