2012 & 2013 Cam Chain Wear, ACCT vs MCCT

[eemsreno]

I'm one of the high mileage Tenere riders that the cam chain started to rattle on cold start ups last summer. I called Yamaha and they said I needed a 2014 cam chain tensioner immediately. They even paid for the tensioner and the installation which was very nice. From the day I installed the 2014 tensioner I told Michelle my bike has a new noise now. It was now quiet at cold start up but as I put it in gear and put torque against the engine it would rattle for the first mile or so. Ever since the 2014 tensioner has been installed I thought it rattled more while passing and going up hills.
I've always been a big Yamaha fan and I just couldn't come to the terms that they weren't doing the right thing.
This all came to a head at Romney last weekend. On Sunday morning when I got loaded and ready to go at 5:30 I pushed my bike away from the tents and out of the parking lot and started it up as normal. I wanted to get away quick because of the noise so I put it in gear and idled out of the driveway with Bob and Jeff in front of me. When I started to accelerate to catch them the loudest rattle you can imagine without jumping the chain occurred. I thought the engine was going to grenade any second and this went on for the first mile as Bob and Jeff left me behind because I just couldn't put any load on the engine.
When I got home I called Jaxon and ordered the new Graves cam chain tensioner. I installed it last night and this morning took it for the first ride. I can't believe how quiet this engine is. It has never been this quiet and smooth. There is no rattling while accelerating up hills or passing.
One of the problems with waiting so long to switch to this upgrade is I have probably prematurely wore out the cam chain. There is a way to do a quick check of the life of a cam chain. When you pull a cam chain tensioner out and let the plunger extend all the way you just try pushing the tensioner back into the block and see how far it goes. [like you are installing the tensioner in the engine] My tensioner now goes in almost all the way. The new Graves tensioner only has about 3 threads left showing behind the lock nut. This probably means that the chain doesn't have much life left in it. With the experience I have with these Hyvo cam chains they do not wear out in 100,000 miles unless something like the tensioner is not doing it's job or you don't change your oil enough. So it looks like I will be putting a new chain in soon. In the meantime I now have a perfectly quiet running Super Tenere the way this thing was probably intended by the engineers to sound.

Steve

 

[snakebitten]

<snip>

This all came to a head at Romney last weekend. On Sunday morning when I got loaded and ready to go at 5:30 I pushed my bike away from the tents and out of the parking lot and started it up as normal. I wanted to get away quick because of the noise so I put it in gear and idled out of the driveway with Bob and Jeff in front of me.

Steve

Ummmm, Now who is the nicest guy?

I sure ain't known for being the quiet camper. O


All kidding aside, I concur with your mcct advice. In fact, Jaxon not only supplied the tensioner, he installed it for me.
You can read on this forum his own personal opinion after doing so.

I paraphrase: "I started up the customers bike and after adjusting the tensioner, I have never heard a quieter Tenere"

Jaxon then proceeded to change my bike into one of the loudest ones. (However, it's a sweet little snarl in my opinion)
But pushing it out to the middle of Romneys parking lot at 5:30 AM, not only would have still woke everyone counting sheep, but most would know who's bike it was.

I'd have been lynched.

 

[trikepilot]

Makes good sense on a 96k mile tenere like yours where no warranty is likely to apply anyway.

But if you have a low-mileage Tenere and you have the YES plan, I would wager that Yamaha would deny any engine warranty work once they learned that a non-spec manual adjuster had been installed.

I am aware that you are a mechanic so you can and do perform all your maintenance and repairs, but I know that I sure liked having Yamaha crack into my engine to do the warranty work they did at no expense to me. I did have them install a 2014 CCT and ever since then mine is really quiet.

Just playing the devil's advocate!

 

[eemsreno]

trikepilot
I know what you are saying about not having a MCCT in while still under warranty. I really dragged my feet about the mcct too but now I wish I would have just went that way in the first place.
I have read that others had faulty 14 cct also when they first switch and had to go to a manual one. I hope most are fine like yours.

 

[snakebitten]

It's a circular argument.

YES might get denied if there is a mcct installed. YES has been REQUIRED because of the failure of the approved acct.

I have YES. But I WIN if I don't need YES. And historically, the Tenere has needed minor YES coverage, except cct related damage. NONE of which has happened with a properly working cct. The manual work the BEST, it appears.

 

[eemsreno]

Took Michelle for a couple hundred miles yesterday and I can't recall the engine ever being this quiet under hard acceleration and two up going up hills.
99,000 miles and feels like it's about broke in now. Of course I don't have any brakes yet but that's another story.

Steve

 

[limey]

I changed mine to the Graves tensioner I few weeks ago after Jaxons post and the bike is definitely smoother. Verry easy to change but my only concern is that I have it adjusted correctly. Any advice for some pice of minde would be apriciated .

 

[eemsreno]

Paul
The way I adjusted the mcct was,
First I removed the clutch cover, very easy to do and I'll probable do this each time I feel like it needs adjusted [at least for the first couple times]
just for the record-- I do reuse the gasket. what is the gaskets only purpose? so you don't have any oil leaks right? I have probable had the clutch cover off 5 times and reused the gasket every time and have never had a seep of any kind. this is not just a cheep paper gasket that needs replaced every time. I do have a new one on hand if I ever need it but if it doesn't seep it doesn't need it.
Then I put a screwdriver between the chain and guides and got a good feel for just how much tension the factory cct had on the chain.
The Graves instructions said the crankshaft should move about 3 degrees without moving the cams. I felt this was a good setting.
So I put a little block between the rear guide and the case so that the chain stayed snug and removed the factory cct.
I installed the Graves and dialed it in so it had the same tension as the factory one as close as I could get it. [don't forget to remove the little block]
Then when I put on the clutch cover I started the bike and turned the Graves adjuster in and out one turn to see if it sounded any different in them positions , It still sounded the same so I put it back to my original position.
Very happy with the Graves cct and now when I'm 5,000 miles away from home in Alaska this summer it will be one less thing to worry about.

Steve

 

[jbrown]

Since I've only heard my ST, and the bike certainly make more mechanical noise than any other bike I've owned, I replaced the cct with a 2014 version. I noticed no difference in noise, at startup or any other time. It could be both my ccts are fine, or both are bad. I have nothing to compare to, so I don't know. The noise certainly didn't bother the setup tech at the dealer.
Many older bikes I've owned had a spring loaded manual adjustment, where you'd rotate the engine to unload the back run of the chain, loosen the clamping screw so the spring could do it's thing, then clamp it down again. This was so simple, I found myself wondering why anything more complicated was developed.

An engineer wondering about something invariably leads to a time sync lost in research.

Google lets you read patent paperwork, so I read a few cam chain adjuster patents. They need to describe what makes the new device better than state of the art, so many have summaries of the problems with manual adjusters. Apparently, the two major problems with manual adjusters are 1) dimensional stability over the required temperature range, and 2) incorrect adjustment. Both of these usually result in the chain being too tight at normal operating temperatures, causing accelerated wear on the chain and bearings/bushings. I think engine design and materials used could greatly affect the severity. The patent claims lead me to conclude that adjusting to a low noise level when cold is often too tight.

So I suppose a proper manual adjustment would verify the chain tension at full temp, then take what you get when cold.
The best solution would seem to be a temperature compensated automatic adjuster that keeps working. I hope mine keeps working!

 

[fredz43]

Paul
The way I adjusted the mcct was,
So I put a little block between the rear guide and the case so that the chain stayed snug and removed the factory cct.
Steve

Steve, I believe that this step is very important and anyone who is changing their CCT should pay attention to it. I talked to our shop mechanic after he was repairing my friend's S10 that had bent valves after the cam chain jumped teeth when my friend changed the CCT and that is exactly how the mechanic makes sure that it will not jump when the CCT is removed.

Thanks.

 

[limey]

Steve, I believe that this step is very important and anyone who is changing their CCT should pay attention to it. I talked to our shop mechanic after he was repairing my friend's S10 that had bent valves after the cam chain jumped teeth when my friend changed the CCT and that is exactly how the mechanic makes sure that it will not jump when the CCT is removed.

Thanks.

Thanks guys, what I did was installed a small Jack bolt ,removed the old CCT and installed the the new MCCT , snugged the Tensioner then removed the Jack bolt. I have no idea if I have to much tension or not enough. Maybe I should put the old back in and start from scratch.

 

[snakebitten]

Limey,

If I'm wrong, someone will surely chime in..............
But I'm no mechanic and I have adjusted MCCT' on other bikes I have. It goes something like this:

As you loosen it, it gets noisier and the noise is a loose chain rattle sound. Not unlike what we hear when you have a cold start and we rattle for a moment.
As you tighten it, if you get too tight, you will hear an increase in chain contact with the chain slider(s). It's a whirring sound, which makes sense if you think about it.

I believe the sweet spot is likely wider than one exact finite spot. It might not be several turns, but it will be somewhere in "the middle" between the 2 sounds that represent loose-tight.

And I agree the bike should be at operating temperature while hunting for the sweet spot.

The reason I am not overly worried about whether my quiet bike is adjusted perfect, is because I feel it is adjusted much better than the automatic tensioner adjusted it. It's certainly quieter, even under load.

 

[Mark R.]

Limey,

If I'm wrong, someone will surely chime in..............
But I'm no mechanic and I have adjusted MCCT' on other bikes I have. It goes something like this:

As you loosen it, it gets noisier and the noise is a loose chain rattle sound. Not unlike what we hear when you have a cold start and we rattle for a moment.
As you tighten it, if you get too tight, you will hear an increase in chain contact with the chain slider(s). It's a whirring sound, which makes sense if you think about it.

I believe the sweet spot is likely wider than one exact finite spot. It might not be several turns, but it will be somewhere in "the middle" between the 2 sounds that represent loose-tight.

And I agree the bike should be at operating temperature while hunting for the sweet spot.

The reason I am not overly worried about whether my quiet bike is adjusted perfect, is because I feel it is adjusted much better than the automatic tensioner adjusted it. It's certainly quieter, even under load.

Snake, that's exactly how a MCCT is adjusted - by sound - after it is installed and first adjusted to be "in the ballpark." I put in the 14 tensioner in my '12 and after all the reading here put in the Graves unit. I agree that it makes the ST engine quieter than ever, and it is very comforting to know that the only real weak spot on my bike is gone for good.

I have MCCT's in my DRZ 400 and my DR 650. The DR is the quietest thumper I have ever owned, and I am positive it is because of the MCCT.

Now I can focus on riding, not listening to my engine.

Mark R.
Albuquerque

 

[Derekj]

I too, have started to develop chain chatter on start up and bought a '14 tensioner to ease my pain. Just before I was going to install it, I decided to really research the manual cam chain route and came across this video that answered all questions. Once you watch this video, then watch the next one that will load afterward for sound comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK1XtUJ2KbI

 

[Baja Explorer]

I am going to install the Graves MCCT soon. Do I need to remove the gas tank. I can see the ACCT on the right side of the frame. Looks a lot easier if the gas tank is removed.
Can one of you gents kindly put the entire procedure on the site so we can follow it safely and get the job done? Maybe Jaxon has a procedure well proven.
CHEERS ! ::015::

 

[~TABASCO~]

It really depends what brand MCCT someone might buy. Pretty big difference on set up between graves and the rest.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Can you explain this a bit more? It would help folks understand why you wrote what you did.

It really depends what brand MCCT someone might buy. Pretty big difference on set up between graves and the rest.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Yes, I was on my cell and to hard to type instructions on a smart phone..... Bolting up the MCCT is the same on both units... The big difference between something like the APE and the Graves is the thread count & pitch. The APE has a course thread and the graves has a fine thread. I've installed both units before, and the APE tends to be a 1/4 turn out, and I set my graves up about 200-210 degrees out. And found that to be a good set up. Its just because of the threads...

 

[eemsreno]

I am going to install the Graves MCCT soon. Do I need to remove the gas tank. I can see the ACCT on the right side of the frame. Looks a lot easier if the gas tank is removed.
Can one of you gents kindly put the entire procedure on the site so we can follow it safely and get the job done? Maybe Jaxon has a procedure well proven.
CHEERS ! ::015::

Baja
I just removed the battery side cover and tipped the tank back and had good access to the cct.

 

[Baja Explorer]

Thank you all for the descriptions... 8)

Does anyone have the part number for the Graves part or knows best place to buy it?