Valve adjustment - more lessons learned

Landon

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I screwed up and am looking for you guys to reassure me that what I believe my fix is correct. I had an exhaust valve out of spec and an intake on the very bottom end of range. When I went to pull shims I spaced it and missed the step of getting to top dead center and removed everything with the timing in the position you would for checking the clearances on cylinder #2. This is just over 1 rotation off TDC. I lossened the bolts on the panel that holds all the electrical components on the right side and can pull the panel away far enough to see the marks on the camshaft gears are pointing at each other in the middle (off 180 degrees). I did zip tie the chain to both camshaft sprockets and twice by the gear under the clutch cover and marked the chain location on each sprocket and by the zip ties below. The paint marks on both camshafts sprockets are lined up and one below is. The paint mark on the front side of the motor (between exhaust cam and bottom sprocket) is not lined up and is about one link lower that when I marked it (see pic, paint is hard to see because of the zip tie)There is quite a bit of slack between exhaust cam and bottom sproket. Will the chain tensioner take this slack up when I tighten it?
What do I do at this point? I’ve already swapped shims. Tighten the tensioner and rotate to TDC and check to see if markings line up with the correct 4.5 links of timing chain between camshaft sprockets?
 

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holligl

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I screwed up and am looking for you guys to reassure me that what I believe my fix is correct. I had an exhaust valve out of spec and an intake on the very bottom end of range. When I went to pull shims I spaced it and missed the step of getting to top dead center and removed everything with the timing in the position you would for checking the clearances on cylinder #2. This is just over 1 rotation off TDC. I lossened the bolts on the panel that holds all the electrical components on the right side and can pull the panel away far enough to see the marks on the camshaft gears are pointing at each other in the middle (off 180 degrees). I did zip tie the chain to both camshaft sprockets and twice by the gear under the clutch cover and marked the chain location on each sprocket and by the zip ties below. The paint marks on both camshafts sprockets are lined up and one below is. The paint mark on the front side of the motor (between exhaust cam and bottom sprocket) is not lined up and is about one link lower that when I marked it (see pic, paint is hard to see because of the zip tie)There is quite a bit of slack between exhaust cam and bottom sproket. Will the chain tensioner take this slack up when I tighten it?
What do I do at this point? I’ve already swapped shims. Tighten the tensioner and rotate to TDC and check to see if markings line up with the correct 4.5 links of timing chain between camshaft sprockets?
You need to focus on the top end cams and chain marks and positioning. I've never seen anyone mark the chain down by the crank. You are just going by the crank position marks down there. If you press the chain guide in by hand it will take up slack.

Pretty sure you need to rotate the crank to the position it should have been in and also rotate the cams accordingly. I did the same thing my first time. (I added a note in the manual not to do it that way again.) After getting it back together, check and double check it all (marks, positions, and link spacing)

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Landon

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You need to focus on the top end cams and chain marks and positioning. I've never seen anyone mark the chain down by the crank. You are just going by the crank position marks down there. If you press the chain guide in by hand it will take up slack.

Pretty sure you need to rotate the crank to the position it should have been in and also rotate the cams accordingly. I did the same thing my first time. (I added a note in the manual not to do it that way again.) After getting it back together, check and double check it all (marks, positions, and link spacing)

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You made me feel better knowing I’m not the only one to ever make this mistake!

In This YouTube how to he marks the chain down by the crank. It is around the 21:41 mark.
 

holligl

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If you marked the cams and chains while in the wrong position, I would hesitate to lock it back down in that position. I rotated every thing to get it in the proper position. I kept enough tension on the chain from above so it doesn't fall off the crank sprocket. Unfortunately you would be relying on the permanent marks only. It is doable, you just don't have the reinforcement of the temporary marks, although your chain markings should line up on subsequent test rotations when you recheck your clearances. Good luck, check and double check. @~TABASCO~ can give you the best advice.
 

tntmo

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That's my video. If all the marks line up and you don't move the crank you should be good, but like I say in the video it's sort of a shortcut and sometimes shortcuts can cause issues.

The manual has all the steps you need to get cam timing perfect, I highly suggest checking the steps in there if you have any doubts that you have it set back the way it was originally. It might take a bit of time, but it will ensure that you don't cause any issues with your engine.
 

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I screwed up and am looking for you guys to reassure me that what I believe my fix is correct. I had an exhaust valve out of spec and an intake on the very bottom end of range. When I went to pull shims I spaced it and missed the step of getting to top dead center and removed everything with the timing in the position you would for checking the clearances on cylinder #2. This is just over 1 rotation off TDC. I lossened the bolts on the panel that holds all the electrical components on the right side and can pull the panel away far enough to see the marks on the camshaft gears are pointing at each other in the middle (off 180 degrees). I did zip tie the chain to both camshaft sprockets and twice by the gear under the clutch cover and marked the chain location on each sprocket and by the zip ties below. The paint marks on both camshafts sprockets are lined up and one below is. The paint mark on the front side of the motor (between exhaust cam and bottom sprocket) is not lined up and is about one link lower that when I marked it (see pic, paint is hard to see because of the zip tie)There is quite a bit of slack between exhaust cam and bottom sproket. Will the chain tensioner take this slack up when I tighten it?
What do I do at this point? I’ve already swapped shims. Tighten the tensioner and rotate to TDC and check to see if markings line up with the correct 4.5 links of timing chain between camshaft sprockets?


These marks on the cam chain sprockets need to be horizontal to the case on the "outside"... the opposite of what they are now.... I have found myself in this position many times after changing a cam chain (and having no marks).....

***First make sure your crank position is dead on.....
***Adjust the exhaust cam so the little hash mark is aiming forward... This sometimes is very tricky because it's small and the angle of the case is not "level earth".... If someone needs to back this off and change teeth forward or backwards to 'check'...... DO IT..... this has to be perfect. After this, zip tie the cam sprocket around the chain...... NOTE: be careful of the spring and the decompression on the exhaust cam. DO NOT damage it with a 1-2 zip ties................
***Now install the intake cam..... (when you get it where you think its correct, you will want to use several zip ties to hold it to the chain while you tighten the cam caps) you will once again have to fiddle with the "what tooth" on the sprocket to get the hash mark lined up with the case. NOTE: be VERY CAREFUL to check your work on the "horizon" of the hash mark. I have been off one tooth before and I thought it looked correct. After checking and double checking I was off one tooth........... I cant stress enough to check your work.. The difference in being "off" one tooth is not that much... It's easy to be close, but NOT correct..... Check & double check.....
***Once I do this and I believe it to be 100% correct... I get the CCT / MCCT all installed.......... I then install a socket into the 14mm crank bolt and rock the motor slightly back and forth to check the alignment of the cam sprocket hash marks ONE MORE TIME...... The exhaust aims forward to the front of the bike.......... The intake aims to the backwards of the bike... If everything is tip-top...... you move on to the next step............. If you are off a tooth, you MUST pull it back down, pull the cam back out and move the sprocket forward or reverse to get the hash mark in the correct location...........

Not that anyone has suggest or implied that this is a "its pretty close" type of job..... But just to confirm, this is GO / NO GO situation.... She is not kinda pregnant....... It's YES-NO..... It must be DEAD ON ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

As I tell myself, and others................. check your work....... and then do it 1-2-3 more times.........................
 
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Landon

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Not trying to sound dumb, just being overly cautious. On Page 5-19 of the SM it says when installing the camshafts to align the K mark with the crankcase matting surface. Then there is a "TIP" that says "When piston #1 is before 71 degrees of TDC on the compression stroke, align the K mark with the crankcase matting surface." How do I know if piston #1 is 71 degrees before TDC?


Sounds like I need to perform the following steps.
1. Cut all zip ties.
2. Remove camshafts (tie up chain so it does not fall)
3. Turn crankshaft so K aligns with the matting surface
4. Install exhaust camshaft with mark facing forward and even with the cylinder head edge, tighten camshaft cap.
5. Install Intake camshaft with mark facing rearward and even with the cylinder head edge. I realize the cam chain will have the be on the both camshafts during this step.
6. Double and triple check all three alignment marks are correct (crankcase and both camshafts)
7. Confirm 4.5 links between the I and E on camshafts.
8. If all is correct, zip tie cam chain to intake sproket.
9. Tighten intake camshaft caps.
10. Double and triple check marks again.
11. If all is correct, install cam chain tensioner.
12. Remove zip ties.
13. Turn crankshaft several turns, align TDC and recheck marks.

If all is correct proceed to rechecking valve clearances to ensure adjustments are now within spec. If so reassemble.
 

holligl

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When I had been in this situation, I was concerned whether to ignition timing might be off 360°, as the compression vs exhaust cycle is determined by the cam positions. I don't know what drives the ignition, but I have heard it suggested it fires at both cycles, so as long as the positions and marks are correct you are good. Again, @~TABASCO~ may shed more light.

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OldRider

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When I had been in this situation, I was concerned whether to ignition timing might be off 360°, as the compression vs exhaust cycle is determined by the cam positions. I don't know what drives the ignition, but I have heard it suggested it fires at both cycles, so as long as the positions and marks are correct you are good. Again, @~TABASCO~ may shed more light.

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the S10 has a camshaft sensor. I believe it has an intake sensor on the left cylinder that tells the ECM which stroke the engine is on.
 

SkunkWorks

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I'm pretty sure it has a Crank-Sensor only, and it is a "Wasted Spark" system, which means it fires the spark plugs on both the compression and exhaust strokes.
 

OldRider

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I'm pretty sure it has a Crank-Sensor only, and it is a "Wasted Spark" system, which means it fires the spark plugs on both the compression and exhaust strokes.
A wasted spark system is usually used to cut down on the number of coils used. With each cylinder having it's own coil that wouldn't be needed. Also if the ecm doesn't know the position of the cams or when a cylinder is on the intake stroke it also wouldn't know when to inject fuel into the cylinder and to go along with a wasted spark scenario, it would have to inject fuel on the power stroke too which won't work. I'm thinking that each time the engine is started the intake pressure sensor on the #1 cylinder tells the ecm it's on the intake stroke and the ecm times everything from that with the crank position sensor.

Edit: Here you go, this should clear things up.......

pressure.png
 
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holligl

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Also if the ecm doesn't know the position of the cams or when a cylinder is on the intake stroke it also wouldn't know when to inject fuel into the cylinder and to go along with a wasted spark scenario, it would have to inject fuel on the power stroke too which won't work. I'm thinking that each time the engine is started the intake pressure sensor on the #1 cylinder tells the ecm it's on the intake stroke and the ecm times everything from that with the crank position sensor.

Edit: Here you go, this should clear things up.......

View attachment 109418
The fuel is not injected into the cylinders directly, but the throttle bodies. Is it actually a timed release or more continuous?

I think the bottom line is the design is smart enough to figure out compression or exhaust given the cam positions. We don't need to worry about getting the crank off 360°.

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Landon

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As much as I stressed about this it wasn’t that bad to correct. Pulled the camshafts, turned the crankshaft to the right position, put the camshafts in and made sure they lined up correctly. Double and triple checked. Install cam chain tensioner and rotated the crankshaft several times. Double and triple checked everything was still lined up correctly. Checked valve clearances now after adjustments. All is good and ready to be reassembled!
 

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eemsreno

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A wasted spark system is usually used to cut down on the number of coils used. With each cylinder having it's own coil that wouldn't be needed. Also if the ecm doesn't know the position of the cams or when a cylinder is on the intake stroke it also wouldn't know when to inject fuel into the cylinder and to go along with a wasted spark scenario, it would have to inject fuel on the power stroke too which won't work. I'm thinking that each time the engine is started the intake pressure sensor on the #1 cylinder tells the ecm it's on the intake stroke and the ecm times everything from that with the crank position sensor.

Edit: Here you go, this should clear things up.......

View attachment 109418
I'm thinking that each time the engine is started the intake pressure sensor on the #1 cylinder tells the ecm it's on the intake stroke and the ecm times everything from that with the crank position sensor.

This statement bugged me because the Tenere does-not need an intake pressure sensor to run. Actually they run great with it unplugged. But that is what Yamaha says. Just try unplugging it and see how good it runs. 14 and newer the cruise will not set with it unplugged though.

Screenshot (1).png
 
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eemsreno

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As much as I stressed about this it wasn’t that bad to correct. Pulled the camshafts, turned the crankshaft to the right position, put the camshafts in and made sure they lined up correctly. Double and triple checked. Install cam chain tensioner and rotated the crankshaft several times. Double and triple checked everything was still lined up correctly. Checked valve clearances now after adjustments. All is good and ready to be reassembled!
Glad it's working out for you, when I read your first post I thought great here goes another valve adjustment going very bad.

I have always come to the conclusion that in mechanic work if you are not positive that it is right then it most likely is NOT RIGHT.
 

OldRider

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I'm thinking that each time the engine is started the intake pressure sensor on the #1 cylinder tells the ecm it's on the intake stroke and the ecm times everything from that with the crank position sensor.

This statement bugged me because the Tenere does-not need an intake pressure sensor to run. Actually they run great with it unplugged. But that is what Yamaha says. Just try unplugging it and see how good it runs. 14 and newer the cruise will not set with it unplugged though.

View attachment 109479
I just don't really know then, but some how it figures out what the cam is doing.
 

Landon

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Glad it's working out for you, when I read your first post I thought great here goes another valve adjustment going very bad.

I have always come to the conclusion that in mechanic work if you are not positive that it is right then it most likely is NOT RIGHT.
It happens. I came to realize it really wasn’t that bad. People pull the camshafts all the time to adjust valve shims or replace the cam chain. Just had to have the confidence to do it. Read the SM a couple times and followed it step by step. At the end of the day it just added some extra steps I wasn’t expecting. Honestly getting the head gasket and spark plug gaskets back on correctly was harder, it was the worst part of the entire process.
 

Axel

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So I did my 1st valve adjustment at 22K since some folks are finding tight exhaust valves and I'm heading off on a trip next month.

1) cam chain tensioner reset. I had to do it twice and it only took a few minutes each time using a bench vise, piece of tin, and piece of heavy duty rubber. Tin between vise and main body of tensioner on one side, rubber between vise and piston on the other side. This let me slowly close vise with one hand while I spun the tensioner body with the other to let the piston compress. The rubber kept the piston from spinning and protected it from damage. Use a small screwdriver to hold the spring in place while you start to loosen the vise. You can see the spring catch the groove on the piston and loosen the vise ever so slightly more (not enough for the whole tensioner to fall on the floor).



2) follow the service manual to loosen three hydraulic lines near left corner of valve cover. This involves three mount points (one bolt at each location) all at the head stem of the bike. A fourth (allen head screw) is near the key for the seat lock. A fifth 'holder' for the three lines is near the left corner of the valve cover, the lines just pop out of the holder. Zip tied them back as much as possible when I was ready to remove the cover. The cover then came out relatively easy and went back in without much fuss.

3) right side of valve cover, zip tie the large wire loom up and out as much as possible. Between this and getting the hydraulic lines out of the way it helps a lot in getting the valve cover in and out.

4) Valve cover gasket, what a pain. I think someone else recommended setting it with some gasket maker or something to hold it in place. My method was to put it on the cylinder head with the four round sections holding it in place. The long sections didn't stay in place well, so I used a small point awl with a short 90degree tip to juggle it in place while hold the valve cover. I did put the 4 round spark plug hole gaskets on the cover and they stayed in place ok (I did verify by using a flashlight and mirror on a stick to get a good look down the spark plug holes once the cover was tightened down).

Be sure to get a good visual all the way around once it's mounted, I found a hidden pinch in the hardest to see place behind the electrical tray. Loosening the four bolts on the tray allows it to move out really well and you can see all the valve cover gasket with a good flashlight. I quadrupled checked to ensure that thing was in properly.

5) DON'T do the shim math late at night when you are tired and sweaty!! I blew this and ended up with so much gap I'm sure it would not have run. I'm not even sure the valves were opening when I hand rotated the engine! Good news is I removed/reinstalled the cam's and corrected my math in about 30 minutes. I'm now at between .26-.27 so I'm good to go for a while. Maybe I won't need an adjustment at the next check.

6) cam bucket removal. The engine oil film makes these guys want to stay in place, I noticed this since the second time I pulled them they came out easily. I used a large forceps with a good bend at the jaws to grab them. I think a small forceps or needle nose pliers with a 90 degree bend at the jaws would be great and I plan to get one next time.

7) per the service manual, you need to loosen the intake cam to get the exhaust cam back into place. I did not need to adjust the intake shims, so I zip tied the timing chain to the intake cam gear in two places before removing the cam holders. To install the exhaust cam, I tilted the intake cam slightly to give the chain enough slack to get it onto the exhaust cam gear (using two paint marks on cam gear/chain to line everything back up). Then tighten the exhaust cam holder first, tighten intake cam caps last. I think the service manual indicates this is the proper procedure.

I'm confident I could do an adjustment in 8 hours now that I've done it once. It takes me a little longer as I like to clean up things as I go.

I'll post up pictures of my tensioner re-set this evening.
Nice write-up. I'm in the process, now, and find that I followed much of what you listed, even using the vise and rubber as you did! I did take the trouble to drill a very slight detent in the body and place a small ball bearing where you used the tin. (held in place with grease.) Although it was a rather timely step, it worked great. I used a magnet to lift the lifters, tho. I'm taking a break, resting up and trying to get mentally prepared for the fiddling with that gasket.
I do have a question for anyone: What is a good source for disks, or "pads" as the manual calls them? do I have to buy an entire kit?
Advise, please.
 

holligl

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Nice write-up. I'm in the process, now, and find that I followed much of what you listed, even using the vise and rubber as you did! I did take the trouble to drill a very slight detent in the body and place a small ball bearing where you used the tin. (held in place with grease.) Although it was a rather timely step, it worked great. I used a magnet to lift the lifters, tho. I'm taking a break, resting up and trying to get mentally prepared for the fiddling with that gasket.
I do have a question for anyone: What is a good source for disks, or "pads" as the manual calls them? do I have to buy an entire kit?
Advise, please.
Depends on whether you want to wait, or you might have a shop with shims close by. A kit allows you to proceed immediately after measuring. Conversely, you can order individual shims to get just what you need at a lower overall cost. But then you have to wait for them to arrive. I went with one kit, which only gets you 3 of each size. Kits can be ordered in two size increments.

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