Yamaha - YES Failure to Stand By the Product - Carbon Bildup Excuse

[EricV]

What else would bend the valve besides hitting the piston?

If the valve stem sticks in the guide. From misalignment, galling due to improper tolerance, excessive wear/slop or deposits of build up. These can cause a valve to snap off too, but that's not something you usually see on street engines.

 

[OldRider]

If the valve stem sticks in the guide. From misalignment, galling due to improper tolerance, excessive wear/slop or deposits of build up. These can cause a valve to snap off too, but that's not something you usually see on street engines.

Yep I've seen valves pop their head off for various reasons, but the only way I know of to bend one is by hitting a piston, either by jumping time or sticking in the valve guide. If the valve is bent, there should be a mark on the piston.

 

[EricV]

Yep I've seen valves pop their head off for various reasons, but the only way I know of to bend one is by hitting a piston, either by jumping time or sticking in the valve guide. If the valve is bent, there should be a mark on the piston.

I think you're right... which is why it would be nice to see a picture of the piston tops. It would be hard to argue an out of time condition with valve marks on the pistons. Often only one piston will get hit on the Super Ten.

I made them replace both on mine, even though I had to buy that second piston. On the Gen I bikes a piston comes with rings, but on the Gen II bikes, you have to order pistons and rings separately. The YES manager couldn't figure that out, and kept trying to say yes to rings, no to the piston, confusing the shop and wasting time stalling out the repair.

 

[Kurgan]

By chance did the first owner or you have a Power Commander or a K&N Filter on that bike?

 

[amoller]

By chance did the first owner or you have a Power Commander or a K&N Filter on that bike?

No. OEM filters used

 

[silvergoose]

Being an arm chair quarterback, I would say this is a classic example of valve/piston contact, from this stand point. You said the bike was running good before the failure, oil/fluids changed as required. Did you state that you had gone on a long tour with the bike?

The carbon buildup looks like oil by passing and burning on the pistons, the head appears in contrast clean. I would demand a review of the case, based upon the photos/parts.

The bike was running the day before, but only started on May 28 and died. Strange, in my mind, I would demand to see the timing chain and related parts and I would be very interested in the CCT unit.

While, I don't have a dog in the fight, it appears that the case should/could have been handled better.

I assume the bike is back together and all is well? What is the warranty period from the dealer for the repair? Machines break, I understand quite well, but the doctor in this case may have made an incomplete review.

Good Luck

 

[amoller]

Being an arm chair quarterback, I would say this is a classic example of valve/piston contact, from this stand point. You said the bike was running good before the failure, oil/fluids changed as required. Did you state that you had gone on a long tour with the bike?

The carbon buildup looks like oil by passing and burning on the pistons, the head appears in contrast clean. I would demand a review of the case, based upon the photos/parts.

The bike was running the day before, but only started on May 28 and died. Strange, in my mind, I would demand to see the timing chain and related parts and I would be very interested in the CCT unit.

While, I don't have a dog in the fight, it appears that the case should/could have been handled better.

I assume the bike is back together and all is well? What is the warranty period from the dealer for the repair? Machines break, I understand quite well, but the doctor in this case may have made an incomplete review.

Good Luck

I had a 4500 mile ride out west in April and the bike ran well. I still do not have the bike back and hope to get it this week. I did ask to get the parts when the rapair is complete and was told that since Yahama is paying for the parts they are not authorized to give them to me, they will allow me to see and take more pics. That said, I will be able to take possession of the CCT since I am paying for it.

At this time, I really want to have my bike back. This too is part of my frustratiuon with YES as the time take to resolve my issue + the time the dealer is taking to repair it is beyond acceptable.

 

[EricV]

I feel your pain. Took 4 months to get mine fixed when the CCT failed. Virtually all of the delay was the YES manager/system. If the dealer could have just ordered parts and fixed it, it would have taken a week or so, maybe two/three if something was back ordered. Naturally, it happened during prime riding season.

Ask more questions. And if you're not satisfied, ask to speak to the Regional rep.

 

[WJBertrand]

This whole thing is BS on the part of your dealer or Yamaha. Such failures are precisely why we buy the extended warranty. If the valves got stuck as alleged, it's Yamaha's fault based on the mileage, maintenance and riding style you've described.


-Jeff

 

[tomatocity]

I had almost the same thing happen to my 2012 with 52,200 miles (late February). The dealership, PCP Motorsports Sacramento CA, picked up my Tenere and a couple days later I got almost the same response...
... cam chain failure
... ... replaced under YES
... extreme carbon build up
... ... at first it was denied by YES. The dealership had me call the YES representative. I let him have his say about lugging the engine, NO. I asked him if he had a Owner Manual and gave him the page that showed the the shifting RPMs (as you mentioned). He agreed to pay for the head removed and inspected. End result they rebuilt the engine from the crankshaft to the head. The only cost was for the 2014 Clutch Basket. Three months and 23 days to complete the rebuild.

Personally I think your dealership is scamming you. The YES rate for labor is much less than their shop rate.

You need to ask that your claim to be escalated. If you would like you can use my claim as a reference.

 

[OldRider]

I've been around the block with Yamaha warranty before, and had both positive and less than positive experience with the YES managers over different claims on different bikes at different times.

I think what DD is asking, and I am curious about as well, is what was the failure that prevented the bike from starting? Carbon build up doesn't cause metallic clanks. It can hold a valve open, but that has to get pretty bad before it will cause failure to start.

FWIW, the YES specifically does not claim a few things. Piston rings, WEAR, etc. It's very clear what they don't cover.

The additive is called Ring Free and is a Yamaha product. Some others might help as well, but this is known to keep things cleaner, but not necessarily help after the fact.

Here's the stuff Eric is talking about. It's a little pricey, but a quart will go a long way. I bought a dozen bottles off Amazon for taking some along on the road.

 

[EricV]

Ring Free Plus is also sold in 12 oz bottles. I just bought some off ebay for $15/each and $8 shipping. (I ordered 3, with combined shipping, making it a little cheaper than getting one 32 ounce bottle).

 

[WJBertrand]

Unless the owner's manual specifically requires the use of this additive, not using it cannot be the basis for a warranty denial. This behavior by Yamaha and or the dealer is really pissing me off and it's not even my bike!

 

[amoller]

I had almost the same thing happen to my 2012 with 52,200 miles (late February). The dealership, PCP Motorsports Sacramento CA, picked up my Tenere and a couple days later I got almost the same response...
... cam chain failure
... ... replaced under YES
... extreme carbon build up
... ... at first it was denied by YES. The dealership had me call the YES representative. I let him have his say about lugging the engine, NO. I asked him if he had a Owner Manual and gave him the page that showed the the shifting RPMs (as you mentioned). He agreed to pay for the head removed and inspected. End result they rebuilt the engine from the crankshaft to the head. The only cost was for the 2014 Clutch Basket. Three months and 23 days to complete the rebuild.

Personally I think your dealership is scamming you. The YES rate for labor is much less than their shop rate.

You need to ask that your claim to be escalated. If you would like you can use my claim as a reference.

Thank you for your note

Called Yamaha Corporate again today and they would not reconsider my case.

I asked the representative why they were declining to cover the CCT and was told that the dealer never processed a claim on my behalf. This is disappointing since he told me that YES did not want to cover.

Yamaha asked me to contact the dealer to clarify the issue which I told her that they should contact them on my behalf as they are misrepresenting the Yamaha brand. Also got a no for an answer.

This is so frustrating. I would have expected a similar behavior with the Krauts (BMW) but not from a reputable Japanese Company.

At this point, I just want my bike back and hope the service performed is done correctly.

I will, once I find the contact details which are not listed on Yamaha's corporate site (only phone numbers), write them a letter to display my disappointment. While I understand that products fail, I just cant accept the way this is being handled.

 

[amoller]

Unless the owner's manual specifically requires the use of this additive, not using it cannot be the basis for a warranty denial. This behavior by Yamaha and or the dealer is really pissing me off and it's not even my bike!

My argument precisely. The owner's manual does not instruct the need/requirement to use any additive.
Wonder what a rider in the middle of Namibia or Peru would do... Bike was design to be a RTW machine where high quality fuel is not always available.
My bike has only been in the US + Canada and premium fuel was used, at least as long as I own it

 

[CanadianTenere]

I've had no luck with extended warranties or service plans. My experience is that they take my money and sit on it then look for any excuse to deny service. The seller has all the power. No more. I'll keep the money myself and take my chances!

 

[RonH]

Yea, warranty is the most aggravating experience there is. I won't buy an extended warranty. As to extreme carbon buildup, I've ridden close to 500,000 miles on motorcycles and every time I did any major engine work requiring removal of the cylinder head I saw carbon buildup that was extreme, so in reallity it's not extreme, it's simply normal. To think a valve is happilly tapping away one second and the next second seizes up from carbon seems like a very doubtful scenerio to me.

 

[SilverBullet]

amoller the more I read the more I blame this on your dealer. It's really hard to blame it on Yamaha when the dealer presents the whole case to them and I think they did you a great disservice on how they documented and diagnosed it.
Problem is now you cannot go back and start over again so you're stuck.

_

 

[fredz43]

amoller the more I read the more I blame this on your dealer. It's really hard to blame it on Yamaha when the dealer presents the whole case to them and I think they did you a great disservice on how they documented and diagnosed it.
Problem is now you cannot go back and start over again so you're stuck.

_

I agree with SilverBullet. The dealer is the one that presented the diagnosis to YES.

 

[silvergoose]

amoller, I don't want to beat a dead horse, but your words have opened up a new can of worms. IF, as Yamaha claims, the dealer never submitted the claim to the mother company and the parts are still there I would claim them as your own. If the dealer refuses and/or has done away with them, it may be time for court action. I would retain legal advise and inform the dealer of your actions. As it has been noted by many, the use of additive are not outlined in the owners manual. I would be willing to bet the dealer never pushes the additives.

This may sound harsh, but it is your money and time we are talking about. The way you presented the case, the dealer had talk with a rep and Yamaha agreed to pay for parts if you paid the labor,correct? But now that Yamaha says no claim was filed the dealer's story is leaking like an old boat.

From your story I read that the CCT/timing chain had been talked about, but no action taken,correct? What happens if the timing chain fails in the next few miles, who will be the warranty authority, dealer or Yamaha.

It sounds like a strong stand and answers need to be presented.


Good Luck