Would you have bought your Tenere if it was the same price as a BMW 1200GS?

[10 ER AY]

That is certainly the attitude they have :exclaim:

Thats always the feeling I got from them. Paying them for performing a service they are in business to do is hassling them. BUT - if you ask a question about how to do something yourself or go buy parts to do something yourself you get this animosity like... "What are you thinking?? You're not good enough to work on a BMW?!?"

I will say - I knew that bike in and out. If there was any way for me to do service on it myself, I would. I guess in a way it taught me some good habits. Dealing with stuff like "hard start" is small potatoes when you've dealt with a BMW that has a "no start" condition. ::025::

 

[oregon-rider]

I do all of my own work on my bikes so yes I would buy the ST
::022:: ::022::

 

[jrb_nw]

Re: Re: Would you have bought your Tenere if it was the same price as a BMW 1200GS?

Honestly? I would have no isssue with either the Telelevr or the Paralever if they were better. Period. If they were BETTER.

But they are overall a compromise. An unnesary and stubborn compromise.

Maybe if they keep sticking with it long enough (as though it hasn't been long enough) they will get it right. Then they will actually have an advantage.
But you CAN NOT make the BMW handle as good as you can make the Tenere. It is currently an engineering impossibility.

Having said that, you CAN make it handle really good. Too bad you can't make it reliable too.

Not sure where you get this idea, but my 2010 R1200RT would run circles around my Tenere on pavement. And it would out brake and out pull it too, even with the extra weight of the full fairing. A GS would do even better probably. They handle really, really well, right out of the box. You feel very secure on these bikes.

Not trying to be critical, but it seems there is an awful lot of denial going on in this thread. I love my S10 but the BMW twins are extremely competent performers, with an added layer of refinement over Japanese products that isn't acknowledged by most on here.

Yes, I will be the first to agree they have a ways to go on reliability, as with almost all Euro vehicle manufacturers. And that creates worry, although I personally had no issues with any of the five BMW bikes I have owned over the years. Just a lot of tedious and expensive maintenance which gets annoying over time.

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[autoteach]

Re: Re: Would you have bought your Tenere if it was the same price as a BMW 1200GS?

...with an added layer of refinement over Japanese products...Yes, I will be the first to agree they have a ways to go on reliability...

This is like saying " She is a remarkably well polished, thoughtful young lady... who occassionally craps her pants and tells you to go f$ck yourself"

Can we define the word "refinement" and then the items that you would like to classify as "more refined" before we use it in a subjective manner.

 

[Rasher]

Re: Re: Would you have bought your Tenere if it was the same price as a BMW 1200GS?

Not trying to be critical, but it seems there is an awful lot of denial going on in this thread. I love my S10 but the BMW twins are extremely competent performers, with an added layer of refinement over Japanese products that isn't acknowledged by most on here.

::026:: Based on test rides alone the BMW would have got my money, it definitely steered better, had a faster motor, maybe my Gen2 Flash has levelled the field, but the TC GS motor pulled cleanly from idle and built up a nice bit of top end power and was joy to thrash. I enjoyed riding it more.

The simple things are pretty much spot on, like dash controls on handlebars, proper integrated heated grips instead of the worlds most expensive bolt on afterthought (that also do not work anywhere near as well as the fully integrated BMW ones at half the price) and the luggage is of good quality and well thought out, unfortunately this is probably the best summing up of the BMW I have ever heard:

This is like saying " She is a remarkably well polished, thoughtful young lady... who occasionally craps her pants and tells you to go f$ck yourself"

That really does sum it up for me, and the new model may be even better for my road orientated riding, but the above still applies, and as long as the blinkered BMW faithful, along with those who are hypnotised by the BMW marketing machine continue to buy them in huge numbers the incontinence issues and potty mouth will remain.

 

[jrb_nw]

Re: Re: Re: Would you have bought your Tenere if it was the same price as a BMW 1200GS?

This is like saying " She is a remarkably well polished, thoughtful young lady... who occassionally craps her pants and tells you to go f$ck yourself"

Can we define the word "refinement" and then the items that you would like to classify as "more refined" before we use it in a subjective manner.

Great metaphor and very appropriate. No argument except the young lady probably only craps her pants or throws a tantrum once a year or so... might be worth it, especially if she's hot?

What I meant by refinement is the "feel" of the bike, which is of course subjective in and of itself, but a big part of the experience of motorcycles. Rasher covered it pretty well, but in my experience the switchgear and controls feel very high quality, the steering is light, the brakes will yank your eyeballs out with one finger (on the RT, not sure about the GS), and the boxer engine is very smooth when cruising. Superb comfort on the RT. Very little grumble, or coarse vibes. When you open it up of course you feel them, but they are big pulses and the bike has tons of torque. The camhead (2010+) makes a gorgeous booming snarl when you get on it that makes you want to repeat with regular frequency... they have simply done an excellent job of refining the bike so it tells you what you want/need to hear, without muddying up the message.

I just felt there was a lot of BMW bashing going on based on hearsay or by those who hadn't spent much time on the more recent models which are really fine (and expensive) motorcycles. No argument that they need more maintenance/repairs, sometimes big ones.

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[autoteach]

Re: Re: Re: Would you have bought your Tenere if it was the same price as a BMW 1200GS?

the brakes will yank your eyeballs out with one finger (on the RT, not sure about the GS),
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This comes at, what I consider, is a serious gamble. I DO NOT trust my braking to an electric servo motor. Essentially you, by pulling the brake lever with minimal effort, are telling something else to apply the brakes at a greater effort. Go take your Tenere out and panic stop it from 50 mph. And dont worry about tucking the front, the ABS has you covered.

 

[scott123007]

Re: Re: Re: Would you have bought your Tenere if it was the same price as a BMW 1200GS?

This comes at, what I consider, is a serious gamble. I DO NOT trust my braking to an electric servo motor. Essentially you, by pulling the brake lever with minimal effort, are telling something else to apply the brakes at a greater effort. Go take your Tenere out and panic stop it from 50 mph. And dont worry about tucking the front, the ABS has you covered.

For that matter, you should be paranoid by TBW, then. ???

 

[autoteach]

unintended acceleration is counteracted quite simply by pulling in the clutch. Unintended not braking is counteracted by? hard things? TBW does not scare me.

 

[markjenn]

Re: Re: Re: Would you have bought your Tenere if it was the same price as a BMW 1200GS?

I DO NOT trust my braking to an electric servo motor.

BMW hasn't built a bike with servo brakes since 2005.

- Mark

 

[Dallara]

~


I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, gentlemen...

But Yamaha's ABS system is actually servo assisted, just like the FJR's was before it. Look it up.

Oh, and Mark... All of BMW's ABS systems still use a servo motor, too.

The systems these days are just better designed and implemented to get rid of all the things that plagued BMW's earlier systems, like wooden *feel*, little braking power with the electrical system switched off, overzealous initial bite, etc.

Just FYI...

Dallara



~

 

[markjenn]

Sounds like there may be a terminology problem here. The term "servo brakes" usually refers to a brake-by-wire system where the user's command for braking at the lever is converted to a electronic signal that is conveyed to a servo motor to apply the actual braking pressure. BMW is the only mfg who I'm aware of that tried such a system from about 2001 - 2005, but then discontinued it. The characteristic of the system most complained about is that if the servo motor fails for any reason, the system reverts to non-assisted braking with VERY high lever pressures - to the unaware, it feels like the brakes have completely failed. The system also required dealer intervention to reset the system after a minor tipover. All in all, there were a lot of complaints and BMW discontinued it in about 2005. But there are also quite a few who absolutely love these brakes as they have VERY light lever pressure - it is a electronic "power brake" system.

All ABS systems have electric ABS pumps and perhaps there are servo motors in them. But the basic brake system is not brake-by-wire - the brakes are more/less like normal brakes unless ABS lockup is detected. The electric pump pressurizes the system to reapply the brakes after they've been released after lockup is detected.

Regardless of terminology, if you are comparing a new GS and a new S10, the basic brake systems are very similar and differ mainly in programming and details. Neither is brake-by-wire or has any power assistance in normal braking.

- Mark

 

[Dallara]

Sounds like there may be a terminology problem here. The term "servo brakes" usually refers to a brake-by-wire system where the user's command for braking at the lever is converted to a electronic signal that is conveyed to a servo motor to apply the actual braking pressure. BMW is the only mfg who I'm aware of that tried such a system from about 2001 - 2005, but then discontinued it. The characteristic of the system most complained about is that if the servo motor fails for any reason, the system reverts to non-assisted braking with VERY high lever pressures - to the unaware, it feels like the brakes have completely failed. The system also required dealer intervention to reset the system after a minor tipover. All in all, there were a lot of complaints and BMW discontinued it in about 2005. But there are also quite a few who absolutely love these brakes as they have VERY light lever pressure - it is a electronic "power brake" system.

All ABS systems have electric ABS pumps and perhaps there are servo motors in them. But the basic brake system is not brake-by-wire - the brakes are more/less like normal brakes unless ABS lockup is detected. The electric pump pressurizes the system to reapply the brakes after they've been released after lockup is detected.

Regardless of terminology, if you are comparing a new GS and a new S10, the basic brake systems are very similar and differ mainly in programming and details. Neither is brake-by-wire or has any power assistance in normal braking.

- Mark

Hey, you're the one who threw the erroneous absolute out there...

Perhaps you'll be a bit more specific with your terminology the next time.

Dallara



~

 

[autoteach]

Oh well, then I guess I need to get on a partially water cooled BMW.

 

[ADVFireFighter]

This comes at, what I consider, is a serious gamble. I DO NOT trust my braking to an electric servo motor. Essentially you, by pulling the brake lever with minimal effort, are telling something else to apply the brakes at a greater effort. Go take your Tenere out and panic stop it from 50 mph. And dont worry about tucking the front, the ABS has you covered.

My BMW K1200S was the most amazing braking machines... That servo assist was all that and a bag of chips!!!

 

[ADVFireFighter]

BMW hasn't built a bike with servo brakes since 2005.

- Mark

Umm my 06 k12s has em....

 

[markjenn]

Umm my 06 k12s has em....

I may be off a year or two, as BMW phased it in/out of different models, but the majority of BMWs with "power/servo brakes" are from 2001-2005 period. In any event, it hasn't been on a new GS for many, many years.

- Mark

 

[GrahamD]

2008 models dropped the servo's K's and R's

 

[twinrider]

Well, considering that my Super Tenere has just burned up its headlight harness for the second time, the heavy throttle pull and crappy seat is making super-slabbing a drag and I'm looking at $500 to fix the ECU, yeah I might buy the new GS if the price were the same.... :

But it was fun riding on logging roads this past weekend...

 

[10 ER AY]

Umm my 06 k12s has em....

Thanks... I was pretty sure my 06 GS had servo brakes too. These guys were making me doubt myself.