Why the GS is a better bike.

[Clevermonkey]

I am having a hard time understanding why a person would post that the competion is a abetted bike on the ST forum, then others get all panty twisted when people who chose the ST say he is wrong?

Dude I rode both bikes, I did the math, I looked at all options on my price range, for my life the Tenere is a better bike. GS work for you? Great. Have fun. But seeing as most of us here made our decision on our ride with our own hard earned money don't be surprised if we disagree witn you.

 

[Ramseybella]

When things go well without a glitch life is good when one spends so much cash on any bike and it has an issue it becomes a problem and then the research on why it had this problem starts.
Soon it blossoms into finding other issues with the bike from other owners on other forums and it becomes a POS bike and becomes a bike bashing Witch hunt candidate.
This is like everything in life, you can do 100.000 things right get praised for it and one thing wrong and next your getting dissected, put under the management microscope and branded a compromised tool in the work force.
This was my saying when I was a Line cook for 25+ years (One day your a rock star and the next day your a piece of SH*T).

I have never thought one bike I owned was the best or the worse it was the fun factor and how easy it is to do your own work on it.
We hear all the stories about the BMW Drive Gernading catching fire or falling off.
Does not mean this happens to every bike.
the Tenere has clutch basket issues is somewhat under powered to me and is not a quick and flashy as my 1050 Tiger was, but I like what it does and it does it well. My Tiger had one issue for me (Shifter linkage) but others found many other issues with the the Tiger it had 45+k on it when I got hit on it.
Have we forgot all the hours we spent toying with them points and condensers adjusting valves more than we would like to playing with drum breaks rebuilding top ends on the two stokers (My Suzuki GT 750 was a Wiseco muncher but I raced the thing).
I get the looks from every group of different owners and not just BMW riders but from personal observation they do tend to snub at you more as if your on a inferior machine, this is a fact and i don't know why.
I have the WaspWorks sticker saying "Official BMW recovery vehicle" Do i believe that? hell no.
I have had Harley guys slow down when i was on the side of the road taking a break and ask if I was OK, I do the same for anyone looking stranded. it's the brotherhood of Motorcyclist and is still alive and well.

Enjoy what you ride and keep the rubber side down.
And if the oncoming rider doesn't respond to your wave hold off until he passes and then flip them the finger and whisper "Stuck up bastard"!

 

[gsinnc]

I am having a hard time understanding why a person would post that the competion is a abetted bike on the ST forum, then others get all panty twisted when people who chose the ST say he is wrong?

Dude I rode both bikes, I did the math, I looked at all options on my price range, for my life the Tenere is a better bike. GS work for you? Great. Have fun. But seeing as most of us here made our decision on our ride with our own hard earned money don't be surprised if we disagree witn you.

You betcha! The S10 is without a doubt the dollar bargain! Much like the Kawasaki Councours 1000 was for years in the sport touring class!! Extremely had to argue with the bike selection from a dollar perspective. Any BMW rider would be a fool to argue otherwise.

 

[Clevermonkey]

You betcha! The S10 is without a doubt the dollar bargain! Much like the Kawasaki Councours 1000 was for years in the sport touring class!! Extremely had to argue with the bike selection from a dollar perspective. Any BMW rider would be a fool to argue otherwise.

That's the thing for me: the bike is not a weekend toy but a commuting tool. With a toy you can choose, with a tool (particularly and expensive one) it's best to get the best tool for the widest number of jobs for the best price. I would love to have two or three bikes- an ADV, a CB1100 or Triumph Scrambler and either a new Scout or HD XR1200, but that's not my life. I chose to have five kids instead. So I need a Swiss Army knife of a motorcycle. The ST checks off the most boxes, if reliabe and has a good price to value.

Every day I ride my bike rather than drive to work I save $10. Things like frequent service intervals eat up that profit. Also the Yamaha dealer is closer by 30 miles meaning I don't need to get a ride when I drop the bike off. With the savings on commuting the bike nearly pays for itself. Include not having to buy another suburban because by the time this one wears out I will have fewer kids at home and it's actually MAKING money for me.

 

[chwhnd]

I could have bought any bike I wanted, I did the research and yes even though I fell in fluffy love with the s10 when it first came out I still checked all other options, I didnt let my bias for the yamaha brand blind me to any other brand, price wasnt a factor so it came down to "smiles per miles" haven't looked back..

 

[nondairycreamer]

The GS a better bike? From GSpot ADVRider this is taken from a thread for problems encountered with the new GSW. Credit to cug of ADVRider.

I have read most of it while this thread developed and I believe it's the following order, I might have missed a bit but I guess these were the main topics:

Common or at least somewhat common (in order of perceived rate of occurrence):
Left/Right handle bar switches failing and being replaced under warranty
Rear brake pads gone way too early (<6k miles), most, but not all, replaced under warranty
windshield developing cracks around the mounting holes (handled under warranty)
weeping water pump (all cases I remember handled under warranty)
oil weeping from a bolt somewhere around the starter motor
rubber boot on final driving tearing, all cases I remember were handled under warranty

Single or very rare occurrences:
Clutch retaining nut came loose, trashed transmission and engine (seems like there are a few reported cases), bike replaced in at least one case (with some cost to the owner given mileage/age of broken bike)
Bearing inside transmission worn/broken leading to transmission and engine destruction (German bike magazine long term test)
Steering stop misaligned - actually a frame that was not straight, I believe the bike was replaced under warranty
Disintegrated clutch on a gravel pass, I believe it was repaired under warranty
I heard of one case where the brakes pretty much gave up for someone descending a pass in the Alps, but I believe that was on a German forum, not here, don't know what was done about it
No start on first crank, no matter how long you crank it. Fires right up on second attempt (I have put this into this section as I believe I only read from one person having this particular issue).
Rivet heads machining off of cam chain - I have personally not seen this one popping up here, so I consider it rare for now
Plastic fuel tank warped, replaced under warranty, so far I've only heard of one case

Common complaints:
Transmission is clunky, there were various attempts made in rectifying the issue from lowering oil levels, to master clutch cylinder replacements, to some work I don't recall at the clutch itself, some people install the Gear Shift Assist Pro (2014 model year and newer only) to deal better with it, it doesn't solve the problem of clunky transmission but lessens the symptoms for some people
Clutch engagement point moving a lot under different engine temp/usage
Excessive noise from final drive when running a too high rear pre-load for the given load condition (like "two helmet" setting with just a normal weight rider)
Clicking / ticking from de-compression device in R/s head - I believe this is normal and "they all do that"

Rare or at least not very common complaints:
Brake engagement point moving
Some complaints of steering wobble on 2013 non stabilizer bikes

Did I miss something?

Disclaimer: I did not count occurrences, this is what I felt were the common or not so common issues. I might have forgotten something (likely) or mis-remembered something (likely) or made up something (unlikely) or ... Overall I believe that even the "common" issues aren't in percentages that would make me re-think getting the bike, even though some of them are definitely known patterns, especially switch gear and rear brake pads.

If anyone can still claim that the BMW GSW is a better bike then I can safely ignore all their posts and opinions as I do with anyone diagnosed with a serious mental illness.

 

[XtreemLee]

Did I miss something?

Burning headlight reflectors.

 

[Guls]

GS a better bike or not?
1) it has a legend behind it, where ST doesn't yet.
2) it is more technologically advanced, but that comes with the price. My K1200R sport had to have software upgrades for first 2 years but now it's all good. That's why I didn't buy GS.

And I like both bikes. We'll I like them all.

 

[Clevermonkey]

GS a better bike or not?
1) it has a legend behind it, where ST doesn't yet.

Wrong. I am a legend in my own mind! ::018::

 

[Salmon Sam]

(Two days max, Karson?) ::025::

Who says the Tenere isn't a legend? Look at these previously posted documents and tell me there isn't any legend in the ST and its DNA. ::022::

 

[Big Blu]

You betcha! The S10 is without a doubt the dollar bargain! Much like the Kawasaki Councours 1000 was for years in the sport touring class!! Extremely had to argue with the bike selection from a dollar perspective. Any BMW rider would be a fool to argue otherwise.

Ageed, it is the low priced and some dealers offer deep discounts. if that's what makes ya smile, ya made the right choice.
When the time comes to trade or sell, just as the other bikes you mention, it will still be a bargain value.

Paul

 

[Clevermonkey]

Ageed, it is the low priced and some dealers offer deep discounts. if that's what makes ya smile, ya made the right choice.
When the time comes to trade or sell, just as the other bikes you mention, it will still be a bargain value.

Paul

Trade in? What's that? Generally by the time I sella vehicle it's to somone putting "classic" plates on it. So I will let you know .... In 2038!

Until then I got a million miles of smiles ahead of me. The average BMW owner who buys a new bike every three years will be shelling out $200K to BMW over that time frame. Say half that's in trade ins, so a hundred grand. That's about a year and a couple months of work for me. So yeah am I willing to forgo the BMW logo to get a YEAR AND A TWO MONTHS OF MY LIFE ( roughly 3600 hours of work) to spend on other things? Hell yes. Especially when I didn't think there was any difference in the bikes that affected my daily ride. Both bikes handle well, maybe the BMW has a few more ponies but I don't go screaming around all the time anymore, both stop well and sure I wish there was an abs off switch but if I bought the fancy aftermarket switch for $300... My bike would still be thousands cheaper than a GS, and honestly after 1200 miles on the tenere it hasn't even bothered me all that much except on steep descents on loose gravel... And not frighteningly so.

It's all about where your at. As an hourly worker with a big young family money= time! and wasted money= wasted time. So as we say in construction "perfect is the enemy of good", meaning better to spend 60% to meet the specs then 100% on wasted gold plating. My Tenere is 100% safe, on time and under budget, which in my book is success.

 

[Big Blu]

Trade in? What's that? Generally by the time I sella vehicle it's to somone putting "classic" plates on it. So I will let you know .... In 2038!

Until then I got a million miles of smiles ahead of me. The average BMW owner who buys a new bike every three years will be shelling out $200K to BMW over that time frame. Say half that's in trade ins, so a hundred grand. That's about a year and a couple months of work for me. So yeah am I willing to forgo the BMW logo to get a YEAR AND A TWO MONTHS OF MY LIFE ( roughly 3600 hours of work) to spend on other things? Hell yes. Especially when I didn't think there was any difference in the bikes that affected my daily ride. Both bikes handle well, maybe the BMW has a few more ponies but I don't go screaming around all the time anymore, both stop well and sure I wish there was an abs off switch but if I bought the fancy aftermarket switch for $300... My bike would still be thousands cheaper than a GS, and honestly after 1200 miles on the tenere it hasn't even bothered me all that much except on steep descents on loose gravel... And not frighteningly so.

It's all about where your at. As an hourly worker with a big young family money= time! and wasted money= wasted time. So as we say in construction "perfect is the enemy of good", meaning better to spend 60% to meet the specs then 100% on wasted gold plating. My Tenere is 100% safe, on time and under budget, which in my book is success.

What ever makes ya smile Mr. Monkey, it's the only thing that matters....... at least it works that way for me. ::008::

Paul

 

[gsinnc]

The GS a better bike? From GSpot ADVRider this is taken from a thread for problems encountered with the new GSW. Credit to cug of ADVRider.

I have read most of it while this thread developed and I believe it's the following order, I might have missed a bit but I guess these were the main topics:

Common or at least somewhat common (in order of perceived rate of occurrence):
Left/Right handle bar switches failing and being replaced under warranty
Rear brake pads gone way too early (<6k miles), most, but not all, replaced under warranty
windshield developing cracks around the mounting holes (handled under warranty)
weeping water pump (all cases I remember handled under warranty)
oil weeping from a bolt somewhere around the starter motor
rubber boot on final driving tearing, all cases I remember were handled under warranty

Single or very rare occurrences:
Clutch retaining nut came loose, trashed transmission and engine (seems like there are a few reported cases), bike replaced in at least one case (with some cost to the owner given mileage/age of broken bike)
Bearing inside transmission worn/broken leading to transmission and engine destruction (German bike magazine long term test)
Steering stop misaligned - actually a frame that was not straight, I believe the bike was replaced under warranty
Disintegrated clutch on a gravel pass, I believe it was repaired under warranty
I heard of one case where the brakes pretty much gave up for someone descending a pass in the Alps, but I believe that was on a German forum, not here, don't know what was done about it
No start on first crank, no matter how long you crank it. Fires right up on second attempt (I have put this into this section as I believe I only read from one person having this particular issue).
Rivet heads machining off of cam chain - I have personally not seen this one popping up here, so I consider it rare for now
Plastic fuel tank warped, replaced under warranty, so far I've only heard of one case

Common complaints:
Transmission is clunky, there were various attempts made in rectifying the issue from lowering oil levels, to master clutch cylinder replacements, to some work I don't recall at the clutch itself, some people install the Gear Shift Assist Pro (2014 model year and newer only) to deal better with it, it doesn't solve the problem of clunky transmission but lessens the symptoms for some people
Clutch engagement point moving a lot under different engine temp/usage
Excessive noise from final drive when running a too high rear pre-load for the given load condition (like "two helmet" setting with just a normal weight rider)
Clicking / ticking from de-compression device in R/s head - I believe this is normal and "they all do that"

Rare or at least not very common complaints:
Brake engagement point moving
Some complaints of steering wobble on 2013 non stabilizer bikes

Did I miss something?

Disclaimer: I did not count occurrences, this is what I felt were the common or not so common issues. I might have forgotten something (likely) or mis-remembered something (likely) or made up something (unlikely) or ... Overall I believe that even the "common" issues aren't in percentages that would make me re-think getting the bike, even though some of them are definitely known patterns, especially switch gear and rear brake pads.

If anyone can still claim that the BMW GSW is a better bike then I can safely ignore all their posts and opinions as I do with anyone diagnosed with a serious mental illness.

Yep ... I am sure if you scan ANY motorcycle model specific site you will find owners who have had issues and may one-offs. THAT is what the model specific sites are there for ... to support the riders and provide help with questions and technical issues. But man some of what you posted I have never heard of at all so you must be spending more time there than me.

It really is about PERSONAL experience and let me state this one more time ... I have never had ANY issues in the 14 years I have been on a BMW including 5 different bikes ... one I owned for 10 years and have a total of about 100,000 miles on those 5 bikes and the ONLY failure I ever had is a Fuel Strip which was covered by BMW and came with a 2 year warranty on the replacement. I have equally good experience with my other bikes including Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki. YOU have obviously not had that same experience. YOU have obviously had sucky experience and many issues. As such you should move on to another brand BUT I really don't think it appropriate to criticize and resort to name calling for anyone who continues to ride a BMW or any other brand or model for that matter. And as much as you may want to argue other wise the BMW GS is the "king of the hill" of Adventure bikes much like Honda Gold Wing is the King of Touring bikes and Harley is the king of the cruiser market. When I say "king" what I mean is having sold the most in that segment and having the largest following. Let's face it if Honda did not have the Gold Wing the other manufacturers would not be building other similar bikes and the same can be said for the GS ... like it or not the GS is what others are trying to compete with. That does not mean the others are any less competent ... some are excellent bikes and some cost less. We all ride what we like and what makes us happy. THAT my friend does not mean they should be referred to as... diagnosed with a serious mental illness

But maybe it is like the whole motorcycle thing .."if I have to explain it to you then you probably would not understand".

Cool Hand Luke - Failure to Communicate

 

[Ramseybella]

::002:: ::002:: ::002:: ::002::

 

[bikerdoc]

I've never argued once that BMW is not the king of marketing and funding journalists jollies in order to get top of the polls. How a bike can top a poll when you are not even allowed to ride one is beyond me.

Bingo!

 

[bikerdoc]

Paul, don't feel bad; at least all you need to do is click off the thread to end the banter. How would you like to work at a custom Harley shop and ride a Tenere', like me? I gotta put up with this kind of stuff for eight hours a day from the "real motorcycle riders".
I tell them what a great commuter bike the Tenere' is but that just makes their tattoos bulge out more. It can be dangerous being a troll in real life. ::025:: But at least I get paid for it.

::025::
::003::
::017::

 

[cosmic]

End of the German Motorrad magazine 50kkm "hard test".
The title says "Shocking end"...
Can't wait to read what else exploded.

 

[GrahamD]

Can't wait to read what else exploded.

Probably nothing, that's what was so shocking. ::024::

Probably everything that was going to explode already did.

The big question though is...Have they fixed the final drive problems? ;D

 

[Juan Valderrama]

I had an GS1100 once, I put 50.000 miles on it. Now I own a ST.

To make a long story short, the ST, compared to a GS, is like a mistress: it costa me half the money and, as the ST is much more reliable, I have a much a twice the fun.

Does it make sense?