Why the GS is a better bike.

[MarkM]

The New BMW 1200 GS look as large as a Tug boat to me if I went with something that large I would just get the 1800 Goldwing.

Having test ridden the S10 and the new GS back to back, they seemed about the same size to me. Maybe you are referring to the GS Adventure, which looks as big as a tug boat to me too.

 

[Alex Fdez]

Hola from Acapulco

I have a 05 GS 1200 and a 13 S10 .

Love them both , the S10 has 32 k kilometers, GS 96 k kms , the GS does not feel older than the S10 .

The S10 is a great bike, they give you a lot for your pesos but i tech wise behind the GS in my opinion

The 05 GS has a knock sensor plus the ECU adapts or writes the fuel maps, spark maps according to type of fuel, wear, air filter, etc.

The 13 S10 fueling system is crap so I only fill the tank in gas stations I know, otherwise I am afraid the engine could be damaged.

I would buy another S10 in a heartbeat but the BMW 's ECU is far superior to the Yami and that is a 05 vs 13.....

Hasta la vista

Alex

 

[Kiwi Graham]

I wonder how much KTM are kicking themselves for turning down Ewan and Charlie's request for one of their bikes? And good on BMW coming to thier party and wonder how many GS's were sold on the back of their programmes
Who nows one day I may buy one myself

 

[Ramseybella]

Ramsey,
Seriously? The GS is 50 or more pounds lighter than the 10. Has better air management around the rider IMHO. It is a VERY good bike and from an engine standpoint will walk away from the S10 regardless of beak. As well it should as its almost 70% more $. How do I know? I have actually owned and ridden both.
We all make choices and justify them in different ways. Just ::021::

DonB,

"The New BMW 1200 GS look as large as a Tug boat" LOOKS not weighs as much or tugs along like one.. ::024::

 

[GrahamD]

The 13 S10 fueling system is crap so I only fill the tank in gas stations I know, otherwise I am afraid the engine could be damaged.

Neither the Strom I owned or the S10 have problems with bad fuel. It's something that is a reality when I ride around out west.

It's one of those things that you either don't need one because of the way the head is designed or you need one because of a different compromise, but it sure gets the feature list box ticked I suppose.

It's like saying that a steering damper is required and so it must be better.

 

[Big Blu]

Yamaha has their own history of "adventure bikes"; XTZ750 from 1989 which in Dakar form won the Dakar twice, the XTZ660, the TDM850 and TDM900, not to mention their experience with competition off-road bikes. To suggest that BMW is more experienced is disingenuous.

Yamaha's sales figures of 173k units compares pretty favourably with BMWs 116k units in 2013.

Argue that the BMW is reliable enough by trying to persuade everyone that Yamaha is equally as unreliable if you like, but I'm not sure who is going to believe it.

None of those bikes were ever available in the USA as far as I know.

My only point is that perhaps there are more BMW failures because they have sold more bikes.. The scope of my assessment was limited to the Adventure bike available in the US.

I was NOT attempting to show BMW as being more experienced..... However I do believe that to be true in the large displacement adventure touring bike, GS vs S10.

Paul

 

[Alex Fdez]

GD
a steering damper, it is better

but really,
who needs heated grips ?

mucho sand , mucho sun O0

 

[gsinnc]

Actually there is almost zero brand bashing on the BMW MOA forum. (They occasionally like to joke about Harley riders, but it's harmless fun often perpetrated by guys who own both BMWs and Harleys, not brand bashing.) I've seen people announce they bought non-BMW bikes and they get all kinds of congratulations and best wishes with their new bike. It didn't matter that it was not a BMW. Here when I announced I had decided on a GS instead of the S10, it went mostly unacknowledged. One guy replied, "Hope you get a reliable one!" Well gee, thanks!

+1 .. .what he said. Honest ... on the RT site, the advrider site and the MOA site. Very little brand bashing.

 

[frez]

None of those bikes were ever available in the USA as far as I know.

My only point is that perhaps there are more BMW failures because they have sold more bikes.. The scope of my assessment was limited to the Adventure bike available in the US.

I was NOT attempting to show BMW as being more experienced..... However I do believe that to be true in the large displacement adventure touring bike, GS vs S10.

Paul

You may not realise this, but the world is bigger than just the USA, and BMW is a German manufacturer. Whether a manufacturer has made a vehicle for the US market or not has no bearing on their expertise, as I am pretty sure that the rest of the world has very similar roads and tracks to ride on. Sorry, but there is nothing unique about your roads, and I'm pretty sure BMW didn't design their bikes just for the American rider and roads.

What exactly is so fundamentally different between an adventure styled motorcycle and any other motorcycle, especially when both manufacturers have been making such bikes for over 30 years.

The argument that BMW has been making such bikes for a few more years and therefore must be better at it is tenuous at best.

I've heard all the arguments before and have to wonder how much BMW are paying you for spouting such gibberish.

I've heard you say, ride the bike that puts the biggest smile on your face. I agree, but would also qualify it with, also ride the bike that is not going to threaten to wipe the smile off your face. Personally riding any bike puts a smile on my face; large or small, fast or slow, heavy or light.

I bought into BMW, I rode their bikes, I was let down by their reliability, I was let down by their dealer network. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, I'll never buy one again, especially when you consider that since I owned one their reliability has got worse not better.

I will agree that BMW make attractive looking bikes, that package innovative ideas and market them as if they are essential, but I am happy to admire them from a distance because my bike choice is influenced by experience and not a spec sheet.

 

[GrahamD]

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me,

That's not how it goes...

Bush "Fool Me Once..."

 

[gsinnc]

You may not realise this, but the world is bigger than just the USA, and BMW is a German manufacturer. Whether a manufacturer has made a vehicle for the US market or not has no bearing on their expertise, as I am pretty sure that the rest of the world has very similar roads and tracks to ride on. Sorry, but there is nothing unique about your roads, and I'm pretty sure BMW didn't design their bikes just for the American rider and roads.

What exactly is so fundamentally different between an adventure styled motorcycle and any other motorcycle, especially when both manufacturers have been making such bikes for over 30 years.

The argument that BMW has been making such bikes for a few more years and therefore must be better at it is tenuous at best.

I've heard all the arguments before and have to wonder how much BMW are paying you for spouting such gibberish.

I've heard you say, ride the bike that puts the biggest smile on your face. I agree, but would also qualify it with, also ride the bike that is not going to threaten to wipe the smile off your face. Personally riding any bike puts a smile on my face; large or small, fast or slow, heavy or light.

I bought into BMW, I rode their bikes, I was let down by their reliability, I was let down by their dealer network. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, I'll never buy one again, especially when you consider that since I owned one their reliability has got worse not better.

I will agree that BMW make attractive looking bikes, that package innovative ideas and market them as if they are essential, but I am happy to admire them from a distance because my bike choice is influenced by experience and not a spec sheet.

And if I had YOUR experience with BMW I would feel exactly as you do and that is your option and opinion. Some of us have had a totally different experience with BMW ... at least I for one have. AND while I have had GREAT experience with Yamaha motorcycles my dealer experience has not been good. BUT my BMW dealer experience which included my local dealer and maybe 3-4 others while traveling the USA has been very very positive. Except for the fuel strip on my 2006 R1200RT ALL of my dealer interaction has been for routine service for Valves Adjustment and TB Synch, brake flush, etc. I do all my own fluids (Oil, trans, FD) and have never had a failure or issue. I can call my dealer, make an appointment with the technician I prefer, arrive for service, WAIT for the service to be completed, get a loaner bike if i need to go for breakfast or just want to go home, and then ride off on the serviced bike in 2-4 hours depending on my service needs. This same process has been taking place since I began riding BMW's in 2000. I have NEVER EVER experienced anything like this with a metric dealer. In fact most times the technician turnover at metric dealers is very high so every time I returned to the same dealer I was dealing with a new team. Maybe in the UK the metric dealers are much better and if that were the case here and I had more trust in them I'd be riding a Yamaha or other brand. And I truly believe most all bikes are pretty good so what you ride is simply your personal choice. But for me personally in addition to the bike I ride is the dealer service and experience I will have during ownership.

 

[mrpete64]

I will say this..

After owning four BMW's in two plus years I can say this...Max BMW, in New York, provided "excellent" service. I do not know anything about other BMW dealers but I can say the service at this shop was excellent. If every motorcycle shop operated like Max's biking would be much better.

Mr. Pete------->
aging hippie

 

[frez]

I know there are lots of very satisfied BMW owners out there. I mean even if 30% of their vehicles have a problem, 70% of owners will be highly satisfied. Of the 30% that have problems, 90% will probably be satisfied with how BMW resolve their issues, so maybe only 3% are unsatisfied +/- 2.9%.

It is a fact they make nice, pretty motorcycles, that have a high specification. It is a fact they have, for whatever reason, suffered more than their fair share of issues. It is a fact that regardless, riders still continue to buy their machines, so they must be doing something right.

My point, which perhaps has got lost along the way, is "buyer beware". Buy in the knowledge that they have had more than their fair share of issues, and if you get a Friday afternoon lemon, you are prepared, and if you have a trouble free machine, congratulations, the odds are in your favour.

 

[Koinz]

My point, which perhaps has got lost along the way, is "buyer beware". Buy in the knowledge that they have had more than their fair share of issues, and if you get a Friday afternoon lemon, you are prepared, and if you have a trouble free machine, congratulations, the odds are in your favour.

I think this is the point others are trying to make as well. You just don't know what your getting.....and if you're willing to be a guinnea pig for a "class act" company like BMW, then you deserve to ride a BMW. Personally, my bike is not my daily rider, but I want it to start and go without having to worry about it 100's or 1000's of miles away from home.
I keep saying that I really like BMW's but not willing to invest in their development on a production released bike.

 

[Karson]

I know there are lots of very satisfied BMW owners out there. I mean even if 30% of their vehicles have a problem, 70% of owners will be highly satisfied. Of the 30% that have problems, 90% will probably be satisfied with how BMW resolve their issues, so maybe only 3% are unsatisfied +/- 2.9%.

It is a fact they make nice, pretty motorcycles, that have a high specification. It is a fact they have, for whatever reason, suffered more than their fair share of issues. It is a fact that regardless, riders still continue to buy their machines, so they must be doing something right.

My point, which perhaps has got lost along the way, is "buyer beware". Buy in the knowledge that they have had more than their fair share of issues, and if you get a Friday afternoon lemon, you are prepared, and if you have a trouble free machine, congratulations, the odds are in your favour.

Too logical

 

[Ramseybella]

Be happy with what you have as many others can't afford neither. ::018::

 

[gsinnc]

I know there are lots of very satisfied BMW owners out there. I mean even if 30% of their vehicles have a problem, 70% of owners will be highly satisfied. Of the 30% that have problems, 90% will probably be satisfied with how BMW resolve their issues, so maybe only 3% are unsatisfied +/- 2.9%.

It is a fact they make nice, pretty motorcycles, that have a high specification. It is a fact they have, for whatever reason, suffered more than their fair share of issues. It is a fact that regardless, riders still continue to buy their machines, so they must be doing something right.

My point, which perhaps has got lost along the way, is "buyer beware". Buy in the knowledge that they have had more than their fair share of issues, and if you get a Friday afternoon lemon, you are prepared, and if you have a trouble free machine, congratulations, the odds are in your favour.

I agree and honestly why I wanted to buy a 2012 GSA before the LC version was introduced. In additional to wanting a oil/air cooled "traditional" boxer I did not want to risk having to deal with any "first production year" issues. And it seems today a lot of bikes and cars have them. Yes ... BMW may have had its share but so has Honda, Harley, etc. I never buy the first year bike since even if there are no "real" issues there are always some tweaks that get made in then next couple model years fine tuning the vehicles. As a result I am extremely happy with my 2012 GSA and happy I avoided any potential issues.

 

[Big Blu]

I know there are lots of very satisfied BMW owners out there. I mean even if 30% of their vehicles have a problem, 70% of owners will be highly satisfied. Of the 30% that have problems, 90% will probably be satisfied with how BMW resolve their issues, so maybe only 3% are unsatisfied +/- 2.9%.

It is a fact they make nice, pretty motorcycles, that have a high specification. It is a fact they have, for whatever reason, suffered more than their fair share of issues. It is a fact that regardless, riders still continue to buy their machines, so they must be doing something right.

My point, which perhaps has got lost along the way, is "buyer beware". Buy in the knowledge that they have had more than their fair share of issues, and if you get a Friday afternoon lemon, you are prepared, and if you have a trouble free machine, congratulations, the odds are in your favour.

Nope not a fact, just an opinion. Facts need proof and numbers, not opinions, to support them. No manufacture is going to release that information.

Paul

 

[Big Blu]

You may not realise this, but the world is bigger than just the USA, and BMW is a German manufacturer. Whether a manufacturer has made a vehicle for the US market or not has no bearing on their expertise, as I am pretty sure that the rest of the world has very similar roads and tracks to ride on. Sorry, but there is nothing unique about your roads, and I'm pretty sure BMW didn't design their bikes just for the American rider and roads.
.................
.......
...

I totally agree with the above. My point was that I'm not familiar with the Yamaha models that were not brought to the USA.

And yes I know "the world is bigger then just the USA". I keep a BMW F800 GT in Heidelberg Germany for my summer get-a-ways to Europe, been doing it for five years now. It stays here: http://www.knopftours.com/Web-Site/Hello.html and I spend time with some good folks I met here (many from your little island ::025:: ): http://www.alpineroads.com/phpBB3/
I just returned from seven week ride about over there, most of the time spent in the Alps; France, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Liechtenstein, ect.. also got up to the Netherland this year, a first for me. On the way up spent time in the Black Forest, Moselle Valley, and Eifel region of Germany. Some good wine and bier there. I had planned a track ride on the Nurburgring this year but the weather did not co-operate, maybe next year. After five years of summer rides in Europe, I can agree, the roads their are about the same as in the USA but none so beautiful as in the Alps.

Paul

 

[GrahamD]

Nope not a fact, just an opinion. Facts need proof and numbers, not opinions, to support them. No manufacture is going to release that information.

Paul

UK Reliability Index.. BMW well down..(drill down into that one it's good)
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer/relIndex

JD Power US Dependability Survey..

Australia... (41% failure rate on BMW)
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/japanese_brands_lead_reliability_survey

Australia No-2 (BMW the only manufacture to get three stars)
http://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/cars/reliability/

A day after Consumer Reports magazine listed the best car brands for reliability, the obvious question emerges: Which is the worst?

The answer can be summed up in four little letters: Mini. BMW's fun, youthful bargain brand fell six places from last year when it comes to reliability to end up in the basement.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/10/29/consumer-reports-worst-cars/3304413/

Can you see a pattern?

Buyer beware as they say. Not a reason not to buy one, just a reason to take it into account that the inflated purchase price may not be the end of it.

Many could use it as a badge of honour about just how rich they are I suppose.