Why the GS is a better bike.

[Big Blu]

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I think that you should ride what you enjoy. Life is too short to do otherwise. Each person needs to evaluate what's important to them and then decide. ..........

+1

Ya gotta ride the one that puts the biggest smile on your face! Nothing else matters.....

Paul

 

[FrontRangeRider]

The same can be said of Yamaha dealers. I seem to recall several inmates here seeking advice on dealers they can "trust" to due a valve adjustment on their S10. I'm in that situation myself, not many S10 sold in S. Florida and the 3 dealers local to me do not even stock S10's, so little or no experience working on them. The valve adjustment on a BMW is simple enough that I'm able to do it with confidence, no so with the S10 so it cost $300-$500 to have it done by folks I don't trust. The two BMW dealerships nearby have always treated me well and I have trust in them.

Paul

I'm in the opposite situation. The local BMW dealer doesn't treat any of us well and we have two good Yamaha dealers. I used to have my BMW and now have my wife's Beemer serviced in Denver. I have built a good relationship with the local Yamaha dealer staff, including the service manager, but when the time comes and if he can't make me comfortable about their ability to do the work, I'll go back to Denver where I bought the bike. Word is that the owner of Vickery Motorsports has an S10 and the rest of their shop works like a well-oiled machine so I am guessing that their service department is a good one.

 

[gsinnc]

I'm in the opposite situation. The local BMW dealer doesn't treat any of us well and we have two good Yamaha dealers. I used to have my BMW and now have my wife's Beemer serviced in Denver. I have built a good relationship with the local Yamaha dealer staff, including the service manager, but when the time comes and if he can't make me comfortable about their ability to do the work, I'll go back to Denver where I bought the bike. Word is that the owner of Vickery Motorsports has an S10 and the rest of their shop works like a well-oiled machine so I am guessing that their service department is a good one.

Totally agree and if I were in your situation I'd be looking hard at Yamaha too. I had a great Yamaha Tech in NJ when I lived there and would not hesitate having him service anything!

 

[mrpete64]

One reason bmw repair shops are so good is that they get a lot of experience "fixing" all kinds of stuff.
I bet one could run a Tenere 100,000 miles and the valves would not be out enough to worry about it.

Mr. Pete------->
aging hippie

 

[XtreemLee]

Now they are burning their headlight reflectors, BMW just plain sucks. They don't test their products they just SHIP them...

 

[Big Blu]

Now they are burning their headlight reflectors, BMW just plain sucks. They don't test their products they just SHIP them...

Kinda like the headlight wiring harness failure that the S10's were having before a new pn was released and a recall issued. Now the cct issue, clutch basket issue, leaky fork seals, reports of a cracked frames, difficult starting, etc...

None are perfect, not BMW's or Yamaha's, nope...... none!

Paul

 

[Karson]

Kinda like the headlight wiring harness failure that the S10's were having before a new pn was released and a recall issued. Now the cct issue, clutch basket issue, leaky fork seals, reports of a cracked frames, difficult starting, etc...

None are perfect, not BMW's or Yamaha's, nope...... none!

Paul

You're kind of grasping at straws calling most of those "issues", Paul. Can't we call them bugs like the beemer fanboys do

?

 

[frez]

None of them are going to leave you stranded at the side of the road on a low mileage motorcycle unlike some of the BMW 'bugs' such as final drive failure and cam chain failure.

 

[clint64]

I am not so sure about the S10 frame cracking. I only recall one issue with an extremely over loaded bike with tons of miles. As to the updated CCT, I had that exact same issue with my previous BMW K1200s. Got the updated unit on that bike using an aftermarket extended warranty. The headlight harness was not a major issue and was recalled so not an issue that left people stranded. It has been well documented that BMW does use its owners as beta testers. The do build very nice bikes with excellent fit and finish. Many own them with no problems but to argue that they produce a bike with the same level of reliability as Yamaha does not ring true. Each person should evaluate what they desire in a bike and purchase accordingly. If you want a BMW get it. Just go ride and and enjoy the bike.

 

[Big Blu]

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Each person should evaluate what they desire in a bike and purchase accordingly. If you want a BMW get it. Just go ride and and enjoy the bike.

Well thank you for permission to get a BMW, so very kind of you! ::025::

I'm not going to try to defend BMW or criticize Yamaha, but let's keep the discussion fair and balanced.

Since 1980 BMW has produced over 500,000 adventure style bikes, many of those have well over 100K miles on them.
Yamaha has produced the S10 for only 4 years. I don't know the number they've produced but I suspect only a small fraction of the BMW number. Under those circumstances I'd expect to see more BMW failures, no?

As more S10's pile up the miles I suspect it's likely we'll see more failures...

Finally, this is a Yamaha forum but seems to get a lot of action critiquing BMW's. Way more targeting of a competitor then any other forum I play on why is that? Is it perhaps insecurity with the choice of riding a S10 or do ya just get a kick outta pissing on other brands? ::019::

..... And ::021::

Paul

 

[Karson]

Finally, this is a Yamaha forum but seems to get a lot of action critiquing BMW's. Way more targeting of a competitor then any other forum I play on why is that? Is it perhaps insecurity with the choice of riding a S10 or do ya just get a kick outta pissing on other brands? ::019::

..... And ::021::

Paul

We're just jealous of how good BMW riders in their Rallye suits look at Starbucks. Unfortunately for those guys, the only people who get laid looking like astronauts, are actual astronauts.

 

[clint64]

Paul, I was trying to say that people should buy what they want. As far as production numbers I would hazard a guess that the Yamaha has produced far more motorcycles than BMW has over the time. As a company Yamaha has developed a reputation of producing exceptionally reliable motorcycles and standing behind their products. This might are might not be a variable one cares about or factors into their purchase decision. For others it might be the driving factor for their picking one bike over another. I have owned BMW motorcycles in the past. Nice bikes and enjoyed them while I had them never stranded or trip ending failure on them.

As for brand bashing, you see it on every brand specific forum out there to one degree or another. I could care less what someone rides or if they even ride at all. Everyone should make their own choices of what floats their boat.

 

[Salmon Sam]

You guys have gone off on tangents from the original point of this thread (which is what a thread does - I am just as guilty)

In all the talk about subjective choice of brand and bantering back and forth about the pros and cons of various bikes, there are certain "truths" that can be backed up by numbers.
In general, Japanese bikes ARE more reliable than European or American bikes. I think that the metrics back this up. Many have debated the reasons for this truism. Pardon me for not searching for reference to this, although there is that recent Consumers Reports article. So, it follows that the Super Tenere IS probably more reliable than the GS. It doesn't mean that there won't be recalls and breakdowns with the Tenere, but in general the PROBABILITY that any one particular bike will leave you stranded is less than with the GS.
BUT ... in defense of the GS, it incorporates more innovative features and that is a possible reason that it is less reliable. This last statement is highly debatable and the point of this thread. However, it seems that the two counters to this are: is the GS really less reliable and is the Tenere less innovative (earlier post of patents filed counters that Japanese are less innovative in general)?

Now if the above brand characteristics are true, which do you prefer is subjective: do you want reliability over innovativeness, or will you put up with quirks and higher breakdown probability for new innovative features. Those that prefer the latter would say that is why the GS is better. Those that say that reliability in an adventure bike should be a higher characteristic would disagree.

By the way, this is meant to be a fun debate, if you are losing sleep over it, please don't apply! We are all riders here and anything beats a cage on wheels.

 

[MarkM]

As for brand bashing, you see it on every brand specific forum out there to one degree or another. I could care less what someone rides or if they even ride at all. Everyone should make their own choices of what floats their boat.

Actually there is almost zero brand bashing on the BMW MOA forum. (They occasionally like to joke about Harley riders, but it's harmless fun often perpetrated by guys who own both BMWs and Harleys, not brand bashing.) I've seen people announce they bought non-BMW bikes and they get all kinds of congratulations and best wishes with their new bike. It didn't matter that it was not a BMW. Here when I announced I had decided on a GS instead of the S10, it went mostly unacknowledged. One guy replied, "Hope you get a reliable one!" Well gee, thanks!

 

[frez]

Since 1980 BMW has produced over 500,000 adventure style bikes, many of those have well over 100K miles on them.
Yamaha has produced the S10 for only 4 years. I don't know the number they've produced but I suspect only a small fraction of the BMW number. Under those circumstances I'd expect to see more BMW failures, no?

Yamaha has their own history of "adventure bikes"; XTZ750 from 1989 which in Dakar form won the Dakar twice, the XTZ660, the TDM850 and TDM900, not to mention their experience with competition off-road bikes. To suggest that BMW is more experienced is disingenuous.

Yamaha's sales figures of 173k units compares pretty favourably with BMWs 116k units in 2013.

Argue that the BMW is reliable enough by trying to persuade everyone that Yamaha is equally as unreliable if you like, but I'm not sure who is going to believe it.

 

[TheWrightStuff_KC]

I'll start proclaiming a bike or company is the best in the world once I start seeing a royalty check. I'm not going to tattoo the Yamaha logo on my arm anytime soon but I will enjoy my S10 as much as the next guy riding his GS or whatever. I truly believe that most people ride a particular motorcycle not purely because of reliability or innovation. They ride a certain motorcycle because of the way it makes them feel. A person should ride a motorcycle that is "the best in the world" based on their experience with it. An article in a magazine doesn't make you love or hate your motorcycle more. If it does you're riding for the wrong reasons.

"I think this motorcycle is crap but the magazine says it's the best. I guess I'm wrong." "I think this motorcycle is the best but the magazine says it's crap. I guess I'm wrong."

I'm not worried about which bike is the best. I'm worried about all of us adding to this forum while at work wishing we could be out riding.

In reality though, I didn't buy a GS because of one reason and one reason only. The beak. No motorcycle should ever have a beak. It can have a tail but not a beak.

Aren't all motorcycles "adventure" motorcycles?

 

[Ramseybella]

More like a duck bill!!
I don't think any machine is better or worse than the other except maybe the Yugo or the Chevy Vega..
I wanted something different I wanted the 1200 Triumph Beaker Tiger XT being a Triumph Junky, but I could not justify the price.
Wanted the Tenere when it first came out but again Couldn't justify the price till it went down on the used market.
I like this bike and love it for what I couldn't do on my 1050 Tiger, if it stays loyal in dependability department I will love it even more..
The New BMW 1200 GS look as large as a Tug boat to me if I went with something that large I would just get the 1800 Goldwing.

 

[Karson]

Actually there is almost zero brand bashing on the BMW MOA forum.

How can I sign up to post some questions over at the BMW MOA forum? My old man is wanting to get back into the scene and I have a few questions before sending him to a dealer

 

[DonB]

Ramsey,
Seriously? The GS is 50 or more pounds lighter than the 10. Has better air management around the rider IMHO. It is a VERY good bike and from an engine standpoint will walk away from the S10 regardless of beak. As well it should as its almost 70% more $. How do I know? I have actually owned and ridden both.
We all make choices and justify them in different ways. Just ::021::

 

[MarkM]

How can I sign up to post some questions over at the BMW MOA forum? My old man is wanting to get back into the scene and I have a few questions before sending him to a dealer

You need to be a member of the MOA in order to post in their forum. If you want I can post for you (PM your questions to me). There is also a BMW MOA page on Facebook that does not require membership. Cheers.