Why the GS is a better bike.

[XtreemLee]

If you value innovation over function perhaps...

Should you forgive BMW because they are innovative? Seriously, this is so wrong and why this crap company continues to screw its customers. The BMW customer will line up to get screwed then when you point it out they cry like babies.

 

[Ollie]

Does this forum have an "ignore" function for over hashed topics?

 

[XtreemLee]

It is: by continuing to buy these proven and refined pieces of technology (and Yamaha can do this better than anyone), we impede that chance-takers that experiment with new technologies that won't be as refined or reliable, or even be given a chance in the long run. By doing this and buying rock-solid reliable machines we end up with reliable versions of all the same technology, but not rewarding those that venture into new and potentially bar-changing innovations.

I would be glad to reward this innovative company with my business if they where able to improve their OVERALL quality system to not allow catastrophic escapes to the end user. BUT BMW as a company continues to abuse its customer base by not having a solid quality system that TESTS and qualifies new components and designs before shipping them to their customers for "beta testing". BMW has coasted quality speaking since the late 1990's, they won't improve unless forced to and the BMW customer loves to make excuses for their dramatic quality escapes. BMW survives on arrogance... ::022::

I think this concept is a convoluted way for the BMW apologist to justify his actions/purchase. "My BMW is always in the shop or broken, but its innovative so there!"

 

[gsinnc]

I rode a GS 12 for a few years and I loved the bike. No problems at all. Before I bought the S10, I went by and looked at the new GS's and what's not to like? The main reason I went with the S10 was I got to keep the extra 5-6 grand in my pocket and I don't have to have any contact with BMW dealers, which was the worse part of owning a BMW.

Plus, I'm just as happy with the S10 as I ever was with the Beemer.

Funny but THAT is what pushed me to BMW in 2000 and have never looked back. Don't get me wrong ... I love some of my metric bikes of the past and my Yamaha Royal Star is still one of my favorite most dead reliable bikes I have owned in my 25+ years of riding but was tired of crappy service by the metric dealers. Could never wait for the service to be done and wanted me to leave the bike for a week or more and "will call when its done"! Now I get treated like a real customer. BUT ... I did LOVE my Yamaha and my Valkyrie!

 

[Roge]

I rode a GS 12 for a few years and I loved the bike. No problems at all. Before I bought the S10, I went by and looked at the new GS's and what's not to like? The main reason I went with the S10 was I got to keep the extra 5-6 grand in my pocket and I don't have to have any contact with BMW dealers, which was the worse part of owning a BMW.

Plus, I'm just as happy with the S10 as I ever was with the Beemer.

::026::

 

[shrekonwheels]

Eh, marketing does what it does, sell, try to make you believe you are buying the most amazing machine on the planet.

I cancled my subscriptions for Auto and Motorcycle Mags years ago, I got tired of the same shit in every magazine, another shootout with the Jap bike right there (Hold your panties my wife is asian before you go on the rant) with the same results, well the jap bike was right there but it lacked the fit and finish of the Euro dream bike, which is all they are, a dream.

Im good with reality and not dreaming of something that does not exist.

Oh yea I would own a BMW if it was not for the ridiculous maintenance, the same thing that kept from a Ducati, that and I know for the extra coin I could beef up a Jap bike to tear them to pieces, which is irrelevant, ride whatever you like so long as it brings a smile to your face.
If you spend your life trying to appeal to everyone else, you indeed have already lost.

 

[scott123007]

Another GS vs Tenere debate topic based off a magazine article? These sorts of topics are cool to BS about sitting around having a bite to eat amongst friends, but on an internet forum, it'll eventually gets into a flame war in short order.

Enjoy it while it lasts, I guess, but I give it 2 days max...

Nope Karson, same day service, just for you! LOL

 

[GrahamD]

All I got from the article is that if you want bleeding edge then that's why things break down and you just have to suffer through, or that the new systems aren't exactly well sorted in the usage sense.

Don't agree.

The example quoted was the GTS1000. What was the problem again? From what I remember, YAMAHA didn't go for maximum sports bike performance so the reviewers were all Meh. As well as that there were lot's of whinging about the price. That's a reviewer problem taking the bike out of context and expecting a low price on an exotic new design, but it was not unreliable. It was just expensive. OK for some, not OK for others. It cost as much as a BMW and apparently that wasn't OK?

I would ask why not? If people were willing to pay what it was worth you may have found a gen 7 in the showroom by now.

If he wants to have a whinge about companies not sticking to their guns I suggest that reviewers look at a price relative to what was offered rather than what market position, in their mind, they are supposed to occupy. Then you would see some interesting stuff. Honda, Suzuki, YAMAHA, KAWASAKI should all be able to come out with bikes that cost $50K if they want to.

The question should be is it worth the money compared to other offerings, not "is it too expensive for a Japanese/Indian/Chinese bike".

That is where the problem starts IMO.

 

[DonB]

I rode a GS 12 for a few years and I loved the bike. No problems at all. Before I bought the S10, I went by and looked at the new GS's and what's not to like? The main reason I went with the S10 was I got to keep the extra 5-6 grand in my pocket and I don't have to have any contact with BMW dealers, which was the worse part of owning a BMW.

Plus, I'm just as happy with the S10 as I ever was with the Beemer.

Do not underestimate the statement above on the contact with a BMW dealer. Most truly suck.

 

[immigrant]

I have a confession to make. I recently cleaned my S10, loaded it with all the farkels bought over the the years and went down to the BMW dealer. Asked him to give me an appraisal on my s10 whilst taking the GSA 1200 for a lengthy test ride. Had my cheque book ready. When i got back to the dealer i did not even bother to talk to the salesman. Gave the BMW keys to reception and drove home on my S10. With a big smile on my face. She's a keeper!!!
He did mail me back with a trade in price. I would still have to pay in CA$ 17600 out the door after my trade ???

 

[mrpete64]

Dependable....

I put the Tenere in the same class as a Honda Goldwing. The wing isn't as technical as the new BMW but all you have to do to it is change the oil, put tires on it, and drive it a hundred thousand miles and then change the timing belt. No drive shaft issues, on oil leaks, no breakdowns...no nothing!

I have owned four BMW's in two years. Nice bikes...but I could not afford the service. Harley guys like to tell everyone how much they paid for all the chrome on their bikes...BMW guys like to brag about how much they spent on service costs. Hence, I love my new 2014 Tenere ES.

Mr. Pete------->
aging hippie

 

[Big Blu]

Today all manufactures make excellent bikes. Ride the one that makes you smile, simple really.

Some will argue reliability in favor of Yamaha, some will argue performance and technology to the favor of BMW. It's all speculation, rumor, owner preference......... and cool-aid. The cool-aid may taste like the BMW Roundel or the Yamaha Tuning Fork. Drink whichever you please, it's all Good Of course this place favors the Tuning Fork flavor, no surprise there! ::025::

Paul

 

[gsinnc]

Do not underestimate the statement above on the contact with a BMW dealer. Most truly suck.

Honestly .... I guess I am blessed since my experience with BMW dealers has been 180 degrees opposite. ALL have been great and far better than any Metric brand I have owned. While I have experienced maybe half dozen BMW dealers they have always gone above and beyond. Heck in addition to my local dealer who treats me great I bought my RT from a dealer in Florida and not from the DEALER but it was actually the Sales manager personal ride. I drove 700 miles to Florida to pick it up and he rolled out the red carpet. Could not do enough for me. But then my experience with Harley dealers has been the same. Oh ... and if you want low maintenance costs then Harley is the perfect bike ... just change fluids every 5k. EASY!

 

[gsinnc]

Today all manufactures make excellent bikes. Ride the one that makes you smile, simple really.

Some will argue reliability in favor of Yamaha, some will argue performance and technology to the favor of BMW. It's all speculation, rumor, owner preference......... and cool-aid. The cool-aid may taste like the BMW Roundel or the Yamaha Tuning Fork. Drink whichever you please, it's all Good Of course this place favors the Tuning Fork flavor, no surprise there! ::025::

Paul

Well put !!! ::008::

 

[stevent]

In response to the article, what is the end result of BMW's technological advances? in my experience a Telelever front end doesn't work any better than a decent telescopic front end. The Duolever is clever but I didn't notice any shaft jacking with the S 10. The ESA is clever enough but with spring compression, damping and rebound adjustable with a 14mm wrench and a screwdriver on most higher end conventional suspension what's the benefit? No different than the Yamaha GTS center hub steering? if the technology doesn't offer a significant improvement then why would you spend money on it?

Bikes have come a long way since I started riding, things like electric start, electronic ignition and fuel injection were considered as risky new technology then but they offered a significant improvement over the existing set ups, tubeless tires and now ABS are for the most part standard items that offer significant improvements. Telelever, Duolever and Center Hub Steering don't offer significant improvements so they're change for changes sake, if someone wants to pay extra for it more power too them, I don't.

 

[Twisties]

When the ST first came to North America and I bought mine it was unquestionably more technically sophisticated than the current GS of the time. Braking alone set it apart technologically, but to that add an engine that developed torque down low and piled it on smoothly throughout a longer rpm range, multiple throttle and traction control modes, reliability, a better dealer network, more HP and torque, a wet clutch, lower and easier maintenance requirements, a bigger fuel tank, no canbus (yes, I am calling that technological advantage), and a whole bunch more.

At the time, there was also the Multistrada, which went even beyond the ST.

I've been satisfied with the S10 and am not up on the current market. Maybe BMW is ahead now, I don't know. It's always going to be a seesaw. I don't see any inherent technological advantage to BMW. Just an inherent set of problems which I shall not rehash.

 

[Pilgrim]

Yamaha isn't any better than BMW when it comes to letting custmers do the beta-testing. Just think about the crappy clutch basket on Super Tenere 2010-2013 that gives you numb fingers... :

 

[MarkM]

In response to the article, what is the end result of BMW's technological advances? in my experience a Telelever front end doesn't work any better than a decent telescopic front end. The Duolever is clever but I didn't notice any shaft jacking with the S 10. The ESA is clever enough but with spring compression, damping and rebound adjustable with a 14mm wrench and a screwdriver on most higher end conventional suspension what's the benefit?

A few thoughts:

• I like the Telelever front suspension because of the inherent anti-dive when braking. I also like the idea of separating suspension and steering, although I don't know how much practical difference it makes. When I moved to my current bike with Telelever, it was a HUGE improvement over my previous non-Telelever bike. I test rode an S10 but didn't think to test how much front-end dive there was during braking. How is it?
• I think you meant Paralever, not Duolever. Paralever is rear suspension; Duolever is another kind of front suspension that came out on the K1200S.
• I'd like to see you adjust your manual suspension with a wrench and screwdriver while riding along at 60 mph.

 

[Kiwi Graham]

Bought my S10 in December.
Looked at all the other 'adventure bikes' before I bought it.

In the interest of full disclosure I am a Yamaha fan (I have several other yamahas in the shed) however I was happy to compare.

The BMW R1200GSA is an awesome looking bike and clearly very capable of what I was going to be doing; two up touring maily on road and metal roads, commuting daily and the odd spirited one up spin on the back roads.

The cost of purchase put me off (8k dearer) and the cost of BMW accessories put me off. I had no relationship with the BMW dealer so wasn't known and offered a very poor trade in price for my 2010 triumph tiger 1050.

The Yamaha S10, I was known to the dealer and offered a few freebies with the deal plus a 2k improvement in the trade in price for my old bike, I was offered 30% dicount on any accessories I purchased with the deal and 15% on any purchased ongoing.

I have no doubt that one day I may own a GS but then and now I feel I made the right choice based mainly on cost in my instance, I just couldn't believe the BMW to be 8k better then the Yamaha.

 

[XtreemLee]

• • I'd like to see you adjust your manual suspension with a wrench and screwdriver while riding along at 60 mph.

  I do it electronically with my 2014 ES, AND Yamaha hasn't sent me a letter telling me to park it...
  
  
  I'm watching an episode of Wheeler Dealer (possible the best television ever made period:-* ) and they have an Isetta with a bad transmission. I know the airheads had spline issues. I also looked into E46 ownership, that car requires valve adjustments/checks every 6000 miles and you better have shims everytime! 6000 mile valve checks in a car!?!?! People had oiling issues with that motor also, it ran very close tolerances. I wont bore you with my 6 years with an oilhead.
  I then had an epiphany, BMW although exhibits great performance and innovation has always made crap.
  The emperor is indeed naked...