What to do if you draw water into the engine

[JonnyCinco]

In preparation for the MEGA BDR this July and after my little "hard/not starting" issue, the thought came to mind: What do you do when/if you draw water into your airbox/engine? Looks as though there are some decent crossings in the COBDR...guess I need to be ready. ::018::

 

[RED CAT]

Best to stay away from deep water crossings. If you dump it, its going to be a lot of work. Pull plugs, Either turn bike upside down and drain cylinders or hit starter and blow out, then drain the oil. replace air filter. Have fun. ::001::

 

[Dallara]

~


I dunno'...

If you look carefully at Yamaha's design of the fairing, airbox intake, air filter, airbox layout, angle of the intake trumpets inside the airbox, etc. it's clear they thought very, very carefully about it. Even a cursory examination shows you'd have to get the bike really, really deep... going very, very slow... for it to inhale any water as long as it was moving forward and upright. Other than the handlebars and the windscreen the air intake for the box is about as high as any component on the motorcycle, and it's very well shielded and protected. I'd think you'd be hard pressed to submerge it deep enough to get water in there and still have the tires maintaining traction.

Even if you fell in a water crossing it would have to be in deep water, and sit there for a while for the airbox to fill up and get water into the engine. IMHO, if you fell during a water crossing in water that deep all you'd need to do is shut the engine down ASAP and pick the bike up quick, too. If you were really worried then you could then see if you could pull the clear bulb airbox drain and see if any water came out. If it did, then you could start to worry... If not, then you're A-OK.

Might be important to remember that this bike has been out almost 4 years now in some markets, and almost 2 full years in the USA. During that time has anyone, anywhere, on this forum or others, ever even heard of a Super Tenere ingesting water during any sort of water crossing, whether upright or dumped? The Aussies and South Africans, not to mention many Europeans, have ridden these things in very rough parts of the world, and far from home with little or no support... Yet has there been even one report of a drowned out Super Tenere? Same here in the USA.

Could it happen? Sure. Should you worry much about it? That's up to you...

Dallara




~

 

[avc8130]

Are you SURE about that?

From what I found, the intake is right above the cylinders. Mine had all sorts of washed up dirt and grime just from spray from the front tire. You can see the trail of actual water "spray":

 

[JonnyCinco]

My airbox was pretty nasty as well when I took it off (well, not where the tubes came up).

Seems like my first response will be to hit the kill switch and pray

 

[Don in Lodi]

Best to stay away from deep water crossings. If you dump it, its going to be a lot of work. Pull plugs, Either turn bike upside down and drain cylinders or hit starter and blow out, then drain the oil. replace air filter. Have fun. ::001::

::026::
That's why most do that/those trails with a bike that weighs half as much as ours, loaded. Preferably a kicker. If you've got the skill and you can keep it upright, the inlet is pretty well located for deep crossings, say, below tank edge. But the end result may have you hiking out to find a 4x4 to haul your broke bike out. Hydrolock is not easy on an engine. I know a Toyota driver that bent #6 con-rod... Road side tear down; carry all the tools needed, a tarp to lay everything on, carry jumper cables, because we've all heard how quickly these beasts suck a battery down (bump start 600# on a two track?), at least four quarts of oil, eight if you want to flush, oil filter (for a smash up too) a K&N that will air dry, or a spare paper filter... clean dry plugs... a long enough tube so you can blow breath into areas that need to be dry(ish)... A lengthy dunk may cause the differential to suck water as it cools, hmmm, wow, add gear oil. edit) Oh yea, water filled exhaust...
How do all y'all figure our electronics will handle a prolonged dunking?
Moving water will push you over down stream. Moving water over the top of the bike is going to hold it down. LOL, try to fall up stream. If everybody else in your group is on a lighter bike, they're not going to be appreciating your company much by the end.
Don't most of the BDR's have 'outs' for the really technical bits?
When it ain't fun any more...
Be safe.

 

[Dallara]

Are you SURE about that?

From what I found, the intake is right above the cylinders. Mine had all sorts of washed up dirt and grime just from spray from the front tire. You can see the trail of actual water "spray":

Yeah, I'm "SURE about that". Absolutely.

Some splashed up dirt and grime near the intake port of the airbox is not any indication whatsoever that it will allow a lot of water into the airbox or engine during water crossings. As your picture clearly shows the intake is about as high as the steering head, which is about as *HIGH* on the motorcycle as you can get it. I've had my airbox open several times now and I've never found any water in there, ever. I've also never found any dirt or other foreign matter get past the air filter, period.

The intake being "right above the cylinders", up near the steering head, is about as good a place as you can get it. For decades enduro bikes used to use all sorts of tricks and plumbing just to get their conventionally mounted airboxes (behind the cylinder, between the rider's legs) to draw air from there... Why? For water crossings!

So I'll leave you with two questions...

1.) Where else would you put the Super Tenere's airbox intake that would be any better for water crossings?

And

2.) Have you ever, from anywhere, on any forum, or even via rumor, heard of any Super Tenere ever drowning out during a water crossing, or even getting any water into the engine?

Dallara



~

 

[avc8130]

I wasn't trying to start an internet pissing contest...

" Other than the handlebars and the windscreen the air intake for the box is about as high as any component on the motorcycle, and it's very well shielded and protected."

There are a few things higher too

It looks to me like the intake is right on top of the cylinders...actually below the bottom of the steering neck. I have never pulled the air box and inspected the actual "inlet". I regret not doing that when I took the picture, but I was in a rush and let it slip.

It is deceiving to look at it. The whole area shown is under a vacuum, so the "snorkel" that has the grime in it and the 2 stacks on the TBs are not the height of the actual intake. The actual intake height is lower.

I agree...I wouldn't want to be in water that deep. I certainly wouldn't want to stop in water that deep either.

I have NEVER read of a Tenere hydrolocking, but I also realize no matter how many forums and posts I read there are still THOUSANDS of riders out there who don't frequent forums. We still represent but a small percentage of the true Tenere owners.

I don't think it necessary, but a snorkel setup similar to Jeeps could probably be developed to raise the intake. It sure would LOOK badass, and as we know...that is 90% of the battle!

ac

 

[Don in Lodi]

Oh yeah, take your saddlebags off before deep crossings. Resistance and the tendency to float...

 

[Dallara]

I wasn't trying to start an internet pissing contest...

" Other than the handlebars and the windscreen the air intake for the box is about as high as any component on the motorcycle, and it's very well shielded and protected."

There are a few things higher too

It looks to me like the intake is right on top of the cylinders...actually below the bottom of the steering neck. I have never pulled the air box and inspected the actual "inlet". I regret not doing that when I took the picture, but I was in a rush and let it slip.

It is deceiving to look at it. The whole area shown is under a vacuum, so the "snorkel" that has the grime in it and the 2 stacks on the TBs are not the height of the actual intake. The actual intake height is lower.

I agree...I wouldn't want to be in water that deep. I certainly wouldn't want to stop in water that deep either.

I have NEVER read of a Tenere hydrolocking, but I also realize no matter how many forums and posts I read there are still THOUSANDS of riders out there who don't frequent forums. We still represent but a small percentage of the true Tenere owners.

I don't think it necessary, but a snorkel setup similar to Jeeps could probably be developed to raise the intake. It sure would LOOK badass, and as we know...that is 90% of the battle!

ac

Neither was I, Anthony...

There are many reasons for having large volume "still air boxes" on vehicles, and reduce excessive negative pressure (or "vacuum") at the airbox intake is just one of them. Try this when you get a chance... Fire your engine up, and then reach up in there where the airbox intake is and try and *feel* any "vacuum". No fair covering up the airbox inlet... As the instant you do that the engine will evacuate what air is in the airbox and fairly quickly produce a felt "vacuum". No, just see if you can actually feel the air being drawn into the airbox.

Better yet, fire up a good cigar... Get it smoking really well, and just move it around in front of the motorcycle to see how much "vacuum" there is. Move it closer and closer to where the airbox inlet is and you'll quickly see how close you have to get before the smoke really starts moving toward that intake. You might be surprised at just how little "vacuum" there is until you get pretty close.

As far as intake height goes... The only height important in this instance is the lowest edge of the rubber intake trumpets up inside the airbox. That's how high the water would have to get before the engine could start drawing in enough water volume to start causing problems like hydraulic lock. To get there the water would have to get past the air filter (which is harder for it to do with the stock paper filter than it is with an aftermarket oiled-gauze element, BTW), then fill up a rather substantial portion of what is a pretty high volume (5 to 7 liters I'd guess, if not more) airbox.

As I said, IMHO I think you'd have to be in some very, very deep water for a relatively long, long time for this to happen.

Just my two centavos... YMMV, or should I say YDMV*...

Dallara





* your depth may vary
~

 

[thfraser]

A fellow Tenere rider I know was in some pretty deep water, and he didn't suck up any water. It was pretty deep by my understanding, the front wheel was submerged, or almost submerged.

I have had the misfortune of hydrolocking a car engine once, when I was a kid. I didn't know what happened, just that the engine stopped and wouldn't start. Later, I found out I bent the crank and a piston rod. I learned a very good lesson that day (over 20 years ago now). As they used to say when I was in the Corp: Young, dumb and full of .....

 

[avc8130]

Neither was I, Anthony...

There are many reasons for having large volume "still air boxes" on vehicles, and reduce excessive negative pressure (or "vacuum") at the airbox intake is just one of them. Try this when you get a chance... Fire your engine up, and then reach up in there where the airbox intake is and try and *feel* any "vacuum". No fair covering up the airbox inlet... As the instant you do that the engine will evacuate what air is in the airbox and fairly quickly produce a felt "vacuum". No, just see if you can actually feel the air being drawn into the airbox.

Better yet, fire up a good cigar... Get it smoking really well, and see just move it around in front of the motorcycle to see how much "vacuum" there is. Move it closer and closer to where the airbox inlet is and you'll quickly see how close you have to get before the smoke really starts moving toward that intake. You might be surprised at just how little "vacuum" there is until you get pretty close.

As far as intake height goes... The only height important in this instance is the lowest edge of the rubber intake trumpets up inside the airbox. That's how high the water would have to get before the engine could start drawing in enough water volume to start causing problems like hydraulic lock. To get there the water would have to get past the air filter (which is harder for it to do with the stock paper filter than it is with an aftermarket oiled-gauze element, BTW), then fill up a rather substantial portion of what is a pretty high volume (5 to 7 liters I'd guess, if not more) airbox.

As I said, IMHO I think you'd have to be in some very, very deep water for a relatively long, long time for this to happen.

Just my two centavos... YMMV, or should I say YDMV...

Dallara



~

I don't need to play any games about "felt vacuum"...just ask all of those ricers about their "cold air intakes" and thrown rods!

I also have a buddy who blew up a Ram 1500 driving through a flooded roadway. It's amazing how much water 1200cc turning 3k rpm could suck up once the intake is submerged!

If the air intake was submerged, 5-7 liters would be sucked up pretty quickly as every 4 rotations of the crank shaft 1.2 liters are drawn in...

If you are standing...and your knees are submerged...you are near a problem

ac

 

[markjenn]

I have no idea what the "safe fording depth" is of a S10 and I doubt anybody else on this thread does either. The devil is in the details on this one, both with respect to the water-crossing situation, how the bike is dumped (if this is a factor), how long it sits in the water, and the details of the S10's intake design. The fact we haven't heard about the problem much if at all probably has more to do with how the S10 is used rather than the design being robust in this regard.

But if you do stall it in water and think it might have ingested water, there is way too much risk not to clear the engine of water. The plugs have to come out. Turning the bike upside down isn't really feasible on a bike this huge, so you'd typically just pull the plugs and run the starter long enough to expel the water.

I think it goes without saying that any situation where you might water flood a S10 is being darn ambitious. It's really not something that 99% of riders will ever encounter.

- Mark

 

[Dallara]

I don't need to play any games about "felt vacuum"...just ask all of those ricers about their "cold air intakes" and thrown rods!

I also have a buddy who blew up a Ram 1500 driving through a flooded roadway. It's amazing how much water 1200cc turning 3k rpm could suck up once the intake is submerged!

If the air intake was submerged, 5-7 liters would be sucked up pretty quickly as every 4 rotations of the crank shaft 1.2 liters are drawn in...

If you are standing...and your knees are submerged...you are near a problem

ac

Like I said... It was just my opinion.

In all my years as a car dealer (and we get flooded streets down here a fair amount, not to mention you can drive on the beach here) I only saw perhaps 8 or 10 cars with real hydraulic lock and damaged engine internals. I saw even less when I was a motorcycle dealer, and a motorcycle mechanic before that. In all the years I rode enduros and hare scrambles I only had water fill an engine once... An '82 CR250R I was riding in a hare scrambles race, in a driving rain, and I rode off into a creek and completely lost the bike - i.e. it completely disappeared beneath the waves, and it took a couple of course marshals and I a few minutes just to find it, much less to get it out. I flipped it upside down, pulled the plug, and pumped all the water out of it. Even after that it wouldn't start, and once I got it back to the shop I found out why. Apparently the thermal shock of the water hitting the hot piston crown and rings caused the rings to break into a dozen pieces each. Pulled the engine down, replaced some bearing and seals, new rings and piston, and rode it for the rest of the year.

Yeah, it can happen... But it's not something I'm going to worry about with my Super Tenere. I "scout" (i.e. stop and look, check the bottom for slickness, depth, etc., and recon the exit) water crossings anyway. If it looks like it might be deep enough to get into any engine I usually look for another spot to cross!

A hare scrambles race is one thing, but just out riding in the boonies on my 600-lbs "adventure" behemoth... That's another entirely, and I've got plenty of time. ::025::

Dallara



~

 

[avc8130]

Like I said... It was just my opinion.

In all my years as a car dealer (and we get flooded streets down here a fair amount, not to mention you can drive on the beach here) I only saw perhaps 8 or 10 cars with real hydraulic lock and damaged engine internals. I saw even less when I was a motorcycle dealer, and a motorcycle mechanic before that. In all the years I rode enduros and hare scrambles I only had water fill an engine once... An '82 CR250R I was riding in a hare scrambles race, in a driving rain, and I rode off into a creek and completely lost the bike - i.e. it completely disappeared beneath the waves, and it took a couple of course marshals and I a few minutes just to find it, much less to get it out. I flipped it upside down, pulled the plug, and pumped all the water out of it. Even after that it wouldn't start, and once I got it back to the shop I found out why. Apparently the thermal shock of the water hitting the hot piston crown and rings caused the rings to break into a dozen pieces each. Pulled the engine down, replaced some bearing and seals, new rings and piston, and rode it for the rest of the year.

Yeah, it can happen... But it's not something I'm going to worry about with my Super Tenere. I "scout" (i.e. stop and look, check the bottom for slickness, depth, etc., and recon the exit) water crossings anyway. If it looks like it might be deep enough to get into any engine I usually look for another spot to cross!

A hare scrambles race is one thing, but just out riding in the boonies on my 600-lbs "adventure" behemoth... That's another entirely, and I've got plenty of time. ::025::

Dallara



~

Reminds me of a time when I was younger. I was riding a Yamaha Banshee around a lake, leading a total stranger also on a Banshee. I guess he thought he was as fast as I was, but I made a left turn along the lake edge (lake on the right) and suddenly he was gone. I went back and his quad was floating upside down in the lake.

Sure enough, it was FULL of water. I helped him rescue it and we pulled the spark plugs. He hopped on the kicker and water shot from the cylinders like that fountain in Las Vegas.

No idea what happened after that, but I am sure with enough WD-40 and oil changes it was fine.

Remember...its a MOTORCYCLE, not a waverunner!

ac

 

[snakebitten]

Better yet, fire up a good cigar... Get it smoking really well, and see just move it around in front of the motorcycle to see how much "vacuum" there is.

Dallara
~

Nice excuse for lighting one up.
Might have to come by sometime and you can demonstrate for me.

 

[Twisties]

The bike has a tip sensor, so if you dump it in water, then pick it right back up, no worries. The engine will cut right off when the bike tips, preventing water intake.

 

[dcstrom]

Having drowned a BMW R90/6 (twice) and my V-Strom 1000 (only once!), I'll tell you what I did, for the Strom at least.

My first mistake was not checking the depth of the crossing ALL THE WAY across - only walked halfway and it was fine. Turned out there was a big hole on the far side.


Second problem - I probably went a bit too fast and threw up a big bow wave.

Then the Strom went KER-lunk - and I was dead in the water. Hydrolock - groan....

I had a couple of friends with me and we were able to push it out and start stripping it under a tree. The usual PITA getting the plastics off the Strom, the inside of the airbox looked like this...

We dried it out as best we could, including using a piece of hose to siphon water out of the throttle bodies. Then removed the spark plugs and turned the engine over on the starter motor. It was amazing how much water came out of the cylinders and exhausts.

Once all back to together the engine started just like normal! But the oil was milky, indicating some water got into it. Nothing to be done about it, didn't have any oil and weren't close to somewhere to get some, so rode the bike for 30 mins, stopped and checked, by then water had boiled off and oil was back to normal. I was worried about engine damage from both the hydrolock and the water in the oil. However it ran like a top for the next 40,000 miles (for a total of 80,000) and AFAIK is still running now.

I'm pretty sure the Super Tenere will resist water ingress much better than the Strom, but in case it DOES get a gutful of water, the process of reviving it will be similar. But a bit harder I think, just cos the spark plugs are less accessible.

Trevor

 

[JonnyCinco]

The bike has a tip sensor, so if you dump it in water, then pick it right back up, no worries. The engine will cut right off when the bike tips, preventing water intake.

It does not shut off instantly. I have tested it :

Thanks for the info, Trevor. THAT is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Don in Lodi]

It does not shut off instantly. I have tested it :

::026:: :