Weighing Ducati, BMW, and Yamaha

[tundrawolf]

Hi,


So I have been weighing a GOOD on and off road bike. Right now, believe it or not, I sport a 2002 Yamaha V Star 1100 that I DO take off road, and spank quite handily.

But it weighs a ton. It's stable as heck at 75 MPH in the dirt on flat roads, but it just isn't designed to take it.

So I have been weighing some bikes designed to take the abuse I dish out to my street bike. I have had a Cannondale E440, and a Honda CRF450X. Loved them. But not street material.

1. Ducati: Tons of power. God, I love this. The more top speed I get on the asphalt the better. Raw, dripping wet motorcycle sex-power. Lift the front wheel at the twist of the throttle. But it's maintenance is high. It might break. (Italian)

2. BMW: Overhyped German crap. Same tired flat twin design. Prone to all manner of electrical failure. No. (I am half German. I don't care.)

3. Just heard (today!!!) about the Yamaha Super Tenere.

Number one! It's a Yamaha. That means it's reliable. Pushing a 600LB bike on a dirt trail is not fun.

Better suited to the dirt- which I love. I get dirty a LOT. I have jumped my V star in the dirt so many times the subframe has literally cracked and broken in half. (And the rear shock is literally just a spring. All the green juice in it has leaked out.) I want to think this Tenere can take that sort of punishment. (If not, I don't need it!)

I need it to be quick on the street. The V star is a torque monster. I twist that throttle and I hold on. But the top speed is severely lacking. I had it at 117MPH once, going downhill. The Tenere is capable of 120 MPH, I hear. Which is... Acceptable. Kind of.

The Tenere has shaft drive: I like it. The Star has shaft drive. I lose some power, yes. But I gain reliability. And for me, reliability, especially in remote, hot, desert scenarios is key.

Convince me!

The Tenere is what I need!

No, I am not kidding. Thanks!

 

[redneckK20]

The Beemer makes a lot more power, but has less off-road prowess. The Duc is basically a sportbike with a lift kit, but is also limited off-road. Look into the KTM 1190 adventure R. If you think a V-star 1100 is quick, then any of these bikes will probably scare the crap out of you.

 

[markjenn]

I tihnk you'd find the S10's power wanting. You sound like KTM 1190 material to me.

- Mark

 

[cosmic]

+1 on the comments above.

©

 

[True Grip]

If he doesn't want the maintenance of a Duc he may not be thrilled with a KTM either. I lust after KTM from time to time and all it takes is a couple ride report reads. They seldom make it through a trip without being worked on. I will agree that they have the edge in dirt prowess and engine performance. What's that saying the faster it goes the faster it breaks.

 

[Old Git Ray]

As with the BMW, this bikes bulk defies what it can do. It is without doubt the most reliable one of the bunch. The BMW is really the only bike it has a direct comparison with. (I do not include the new Water Cooled BMW model that has had 3 recalls already)

There are a few niggles with it though, fortunately these are easily sorted. Like the screen is too small for most people (easily changed and uprated on the 2014 model). The sump is vulnerable and the Yamaha offering makes it worse. There are however many good aftermarket ones available.

Aside from that the bike is as tough as it gets. Slip on something to keep the fork seals clean and it will go on forever.

The clutch can be changed in about 20 minutes. (Lay the bike on its side, remove cover bolts, remove clutch basket bolts, change clutch, put back together with glue and you on your way again. On a BMW, similar procedure (break bike into 2 halves, remove gearbox, change clutch, replace gearbox, rebuild bike - simple :-[).

I have had mine for 3 1/2 years and the only time it has seen a garage is when I was too lazy to do the work myself. It has no "Take me to e dealer for service" light (a la BMW) and all servicing, except perhaps valve adjustments depending up on your skill level, can be done on the street.

It lacks power in stock form and this was built into the bike by Yamaha deliberately. This is easily fixed with an ECU reprogram for about US$400.

The electronics on this bike are unbelievable and all new big dirt bikes are now incorporating the same system. The brakes work absolutely everywhere, as does the Traction control. It will always do its best to look after your ass.

Have a look at this African bikers site. The Africans seriously abuse their bikes and this bunch have fallen in love with this bike.

http://www.dualsportafrica.com/xt1200ztenere.htm

Even the tyres can be changed on the street with only levers and a small pump. The bead is lower than on most bikes so it is easier to break the bead and unlike my 09 BMW GSA, the beads seat on their own so it can be pumped up with a mini pump. I can change both tyres, by the side of the road, in an hour or so with just levers, allen keys and a pump.

A lot of thought has gone into this bike to make a proper adventure bike as opposed to a money maker for the dealer.

I am currently on a long 35k mile trip. Have had a few problems but they were with parts that I put on that were not Yamaha (I changed the spokes for more brittle stainless ones - stupid boy). The only Yamaha part that has needed replacing is a rear wheel bearing that I did myself. However, that was 24k miles into my trip and the bike is carrying over 100kg more that it is supposed to do.

 

[rem]

Welcome on, tundrawolf. I'm on my second Tenere. Trashed the first one, and never hesitated on acquiring the second one. I guess most of us wouldn't be here if we didn't prefer the Tenere. Ride them all if you can, and decide. All I can say is you will not be disappointed in this bike. By the way, please post under Member Intros so the other member will spot you. ::004:: to the Forum. R. ::022::

 

[AVGeek]

Welcome aboard! I'll make my usual disclaimer that I currently own all Yamaha products, and have only purchased Yamaha since I started buying my own....

Arizona is Tenere country. There are so many places this bike can go that will amaze you. Put on a decent skid plate, crash bars, and go explore to your hearts content.

 

[troll]

??? : What's to weigh? Now that you have found the Super Tenere just go buy one :-*

::26:: ::26::

 

[Rasher]

Only done 12k on the S10, nothing gone wrong yet (My 2008 GS managed about £1500 of warranty work and £200 of my own money by 15k)

Power is a little down, and not much top end warp drive, the ECU Flash does a lot to improve the low-midrange (becomes a real torque monster) but it lacks the top end rush of many faster bike, personally I like the thing ripping my arms out at 3,000rpm as I am too lazy to chase the redline (this laziness set in on my 40th Birthday) Arrow Headers will free up the top end a little, but it is still gonna be noticeably down on the GS and well behind the KTM in flat out speed, but almost certainly will hold together better and take more abuse with far less maintenance.

If you must go fast take the KTM over the Ducati as it has some off-road ability, the Ducati is just a tall comfy sportsbike - and a damn good one, but not designed for the slightest off-road use.

 

[HoebSTer]

TundraWolf, Well if you just found out about it, you have lots to read and learn. Search on ADVRIDER.COM under Beasts for thousands of pages of info. Search for WASP pages, YouTube Tenere videos. DO this for the rest of the weekend, yes whole weekend. If reliability is on your highest desire, then the Tenere is the choice to do all you have mentioned well. Nope it isn't the fastest, or lightest, just awesome at all of them. Get the skid plate, and suspension tuned for you and your hard riding skills and it will be better for you. Many have installed a 21" front wheel too and installed raising links in rear for an extra inch ground clearance. Just some thoughts, as there is enough info here that kept us drooling as we waited the 9 months+ and a Tsunami to get the bike here.
One guy here from DC area has 100k+ miles on his in just over 2 years with minimal normal maintenance.

Oh, and a GEN 2 ECU reflash will give major power inprovement, and or a PC V and or combo of both.
Enjoy!!!

 

[SuperJimbo]

Howdy Tundrawolf,
I acquired my S10 2nd hand & Im not looking back. Believe it to be as good a all arounder as there is. The other folks here speak the truth. The S10 may not be the fastest thing on 2 wheels but it is designed for a slightly different niche, and it fills that quite well. When I started my research looking to get into the adventure set, the objects were cost, reliability, dealer network/support (live out in the sticks with a Ducati and you'll learn about that one) and overall fun factor. I believe your heading the right direction doing your homework. All of us here will be glad to welcome you aboard should the search lead you to the S10 camp.

 

[Checkswrecks]

It's deceptively fast on the road and I prefer to do long distance on the Tenere more than on the previous FJR - which was an excellent mile muncher.

And it can do it while carrying more than Yamaha ever intended.


Last item is that my other half prefers the big flat back seat of the Tenere to anything else she has been on.

 

[OldRider]

I call em like I see em, all sounds like BS to me.

 

[tundrawolf]

As with the BMW, this bikes bulk defies what it can do. It is without doubt the most reliable one of the bunch. The BMW is really the only bike it has a direct comparison with. (I do not include the new Water Cooled BMW model that has had 3 recalls already)

As much as I love something that is fast, I have to say, reliability has to be number one. When i was looking at it at the dealership, reliability kept going through my head...

There are a few niggles with it though, fortunately these are easily sorted. Like the screen is too small for most people (easily changed and uprated on the 2014 model). The sump is vulnerable and the Yamaha offering makes it worse. There are however many good aftermarket ones available.

Yeah, I saw the oil filter placement and the hair stood up on the back of my neck XD

Aside from that the bike is as tough as it gets. Slip on something to keep the fork seals clean and it will go on forever.

That is what I want to hear.

The clutch can be changed in about 20 minutes. (Lay the bike on its side, remove cover bolts, remove clutch basket bolts, change clutch, put back together with glue and you on your way again. On a BMW, similar procedure (break bike into 2 halves, remove gearbox, change clutch, replace gearbox, rebuild bike - simple :-[).

I have had mine for 3 1/2 years and the only time it has seen a garage is when I was too lazy to do the work myself. It has no "Take me to e dealer for service" light (a la BMW) and all servicing, except perhaps valve adjustments depending up on your skill level, can be done on the street.

It lacks power in stock form and this was built into the bike by Yamaha deliberately. This is easily fixed with an ECU reprogram for about US$400.

Good to know! Kind of like a speedo healer, right?

The electronics on this bike are unbelievable and all new big dirt bikes are now incorporating the same system. The brakes work absolutely everywhere, as does the Traction control. It will always do its best to look after your ass.

Have a look at this African bikers site. The Africans seriously abuse their bikes and this bunch have fallen in love with this bike.

http://www.dualsportafrica.com/xt1200ztenere.htm

Even the tyres can be changed on the street with only levers and a small pump. The bead is lower than on most bikes so it is easier to break the bead and unlike my 09 BMW GSA, the beads seat on their own so it can be pumped up with a mini pump. I can change both tyres, by the side of the road, in an hour or so with just levers, allen keys and a pump.

A lot of thought has gone into this bike to make a proper adventure bike as opposed to a money maker for the dealer.

I am currently on a long 35k mile trip. Have had a few problems but they were with parts that I put on that were not Yamaha (I changed the spokes for more brittle stainless ones - stupid boy). The only Yamaha part that has needed replacing is a rear wheel bearing that I did myself. However, that was 24k miles into my trip and the bike is carrying over 100kg more that it is supposed to do.

I love to hear that. Yeah, I do my own maintenance. Are the valves screw type, or shimmed?

Here's a question, is it a high compression F1 type engine? (Usually take shims for valve adjustments)

 

[redneckK20]

It's 11.1 to 1 compression, shim under bucket valves.

 

[EricV]

For the enthusiasm that you project in your description of your desires and riding wants, the Super Tenere and the KTM 1190 Adventure are the two serious contenders. The KTM is better than they have done before, but only barely out in the US and may be difficult to get a test ride on, and it's still chain drive. Lighter, even more dirt worthy, but shorter service intervals at only 10k miles compared to the 26k miles of the Super Ten. You'll be riding the Yamaha more than the KTM in terms of maintenance Vs riding time.
http://www.ktm.com/us/travel/1190-adventure-eu/highlights.html#.UpNocRyaqBA

All in all, the Super Tenere with the ECU flash after you've gotten used to it, (maybe you won't feel the need), and some good protective bits will meet all of your stated desires. The power restrictions are in the first three gears, specifically at lower RPM. The intent is to make it more rideable in loose conditions instead of spinning the wheels and fighting traction control. Some of the guys enjoy spinning the wheels though and prefer the restrictions removed. It ends up costing more as tires wear out faster when you play hard like that.

Any stock bike can be made better, but you don't necessarily have to toss money at the bike if you don't want to.

The most common issues on the Super Ten have been spokes coming loose in the first 10k miles, (you need to check them at 600 and then every 4-5k), and the headlight sub harness and plugs to the headlight bulbs melting due to small gauge wiring. Yamaha has a new wiring sub harness out to correct that problem, IF your bike suffers from it. Not all do, though it may simply be a matter of time and miles. At 70k, I have the original sub harness, but did replace the melting plugs with higher grade ones for around $10.

Have fun bike shopping.

 

[3putt]

Do not take these posts lightly, some pretty heavy weight experience here! ::001::

I can't say enough or explain it well enough about the electronics in the application of UBS/ABS and TC! You will not find another bike that I know of to match it.

Fast? How long does it take to get to cruising speed everytime you stop for gas on the way to Alaska? Trust me you will not worry about how fast it is on that trip!

I sold my S10 after 29,500 miles and it was almost like new even going to Alaska and back, maybe a little dirtier (that stuff is hard to get off of the hidden places). 2014 with CC and different screen might get me another look. ::013::

 

[squarebore]

I don't think the S10 is for you.

 

[snakebitten]

I don't think the S10 is for you.

You never know.
If going strictly by his own words, I see why you come to that conclusion. And I think I know which specific statements lead to that conclusion

But! The Tenere itself can change a rider, AND rearrange their priorities.
It did me and mine.