valve adjust problem (Not really)

becoyote

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Just to summarize this long thread for any new readers. There really wasn't much of a problem with the valve adjustment.

2 very small oddball things happened and these two small things were hell to figure out because while my seat was away getting Russelized I had my tank painted, added a bunch of electrical farkles, checked and adjusted my valves and had the ECU flashed.

Problem #1 I needed to replace all 4 exhaust shims. After doing so, 3 ex valves were perfect one was so tight you couldn't get a feeler gauge in. After 3 tries it was discovered that while the shim was the correct thickness, the diameter was slightly bigger than it was supposed to be. This kept it from seating correctly in the bucket.

Problem #2 After putting the bike together, it wouldn't start. The fuel pump would come on and pump fuel but no start. After exhaustive trouble shooting including taking that valve cover back off and checking that timing was correct I finally rigged a fuel pressure gauge to the bike and discovered that even though the pump ran, it ran with 0 pressure. Further trouble shooting of the pump makes it look like an o-ring was not seated inside the pump correctly but it isn't definite that was the problem and if it was the problem I'm not sure how it became unseated unless the painter took the pump out.

Moral of the story

If adjusting your valves, mic the thickness and diameter of the shim before putting it into the bucket and if at all possible do one project at a time.







A friend and I did my valves today. All 4 ex. valves were pretty tight. Everything seemed to be going really well. Got everything back together and re-checked the clearances.

3 were perfect but one was super tight, much tighter than it was before the smaller shim. It would me most accurate to say there is no clearance as my smallest feeler is .007mm and won't fit.

Edit
Just got back from taking it apart and reassembling. The shim wasn't sitting on the magnet when I pulled the bucket out but I have no way of knowing if it was sitting correctly when it was together.

It was the correct shim.

I measured on my own the exhaust clearance of .178 on my own and we repeated the valve check again this morning. We took out a 1.95 and put in a 1.85. The ex. valve should now be at the top of the clearance but I can't get any feeler gauge in there.

This time I put the shim into the space on the valve instead of on the magnet in the bucket.

The other 3 exhaust valves are coming out perfect.

I rotated the engine a few times before checking again.

Could it be the bucket isn't seating right? Would a tiny bit of grit or maybe a dog hair be enough?

We were pretty conscientious about cleanliness etc but I am not sure what else could be going on.
 

eemsreno

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Re: valve adjust problem

When you put the shims back in you should always be putting them into the spring keeper. Make sure they snap down into the keeper tight.
 

becoyote

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Re: valve adjust problem

Greg,

We followed your write up pretty closely. The only thing we did differently is that since no intake valves needed to be adjusted, we took the caps off the intake cams off but left the actual intake cam in place with the timing chain ziptied to the sprocket.

We only actually took out the exhaust cams.
 

greg the pole

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Re: valve adjust problem

gotcha.

ok, I'm at a loss. like I said, I would pull the ex. cam out, re-check everything. I'm guessing your camshaft sprocket and chain are lined up as per original set up?
I guess if the chain, and sprocket were out, the rest of the exhaust clearances would be out as well.

keep us posted,

G
 

avc8130

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Re: valve adjust problem

Check everything again. I bet something is wrong with your math. Either the shim you took out wasn't actually 1.95, or the shim you put in wasn't actually 1.85, or both.

Use a micrometer. Measure the shims. You can never be too sure.

Are your cams torqued down when you are measuring?

Is everything SPOTLESS and 100% free of burrs?

This is a real head scratch-er.

ac
 

becoyote

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Re: valve adjust problem

I will mic the shim when I take it out again but I know the valve clearance was .178. The shim I took out was marked 1.95 and the one I put in was marked 1.85. It was a brand new Hot Cams set.

That should theoretically give me a new clearance of .278 right?


I will take it apart again tomorrow evening with and eye towards checking out the bucket for burrs or maybe a piece of grit.
 

MrTwisty

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Re: valve adjust problem

It's a good practice to always mic your old shims and your new shims to confirm the thickness. Sometimes they are marked incorrectly.
 

scott123007

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Re: valve adjust problem

MrTwisty said:
It's a good practice to always mic your old shims and your new shims to confirm the thickness. Sometimes they are marked incorrectly.
This!

Well, AC said it first, but you ALWAYS mic your shims to be sure. They have been mismarking them since time began. Not saying that is your problem, but it has been, for many others.
 

becoyote

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Re: valve adjust problem

The shims came from a hot cams kit. I pulled the shim and it measured the correct size. Measured the Yamaha shims that I took out.

They all measured correctly also.

What I did notice was that the shim kind of wobbled on top of the valve stem like it didn't fit correctly. I measured and tried another one of the same size from the kit and it fit very nicely and I think the bucket is sitting just a hair lower now.

I am hopeful this was the problem, I am going to re-assembly and check the valves again with my fingers crossed.

When first assembled I placed the valves on the magnet in the bucket instead of on top of the valve. Maybe this one didn't sit right and was damaged or maybe it was defective to begin with.

If I did distort the shim, what are the chances I have damaged something else? If the clearance check out okay should I go ahead and finish re-assembly?
 

MGB

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Re: valve adjust problem

If I remember correctly, you have a clear view of the top of the valve/valve spring with the cap off. I think any damage to the valve/valve spring would be clearly visible.
 

MrTwisty

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Re: valve adjust problem

becoyote said:
If I did distort the shim, what are the chances I have damaged something else? If the clearance check out okay should I go ahead and finish re-assembly?
It sounds like the problem shim may have had a larger diameter than the other shims which kept it from seating properly (just guessing). The only thing I can imagine being damaged would be the lifter bucket that goes between the shim and the cam. It is very hard, so I suspect it would crack before bending, but I would be surprised if it were damaged by reassembly.
 

becoyote

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Re: valve adjust problem

MrTwisty said:
It sounds like the problem shim may have had a larger diameter than the other shims which kept it from seating properly (just guessing). The only thing I can imagine being damaged would be the lifter bucket that goes between the shim and the cam. It is very hard, so I suspect it would crack before bending, but I would be surprised if it were damaged by reassembly.
Bingo!

The new shim should have been 9.48mm in diameter, it was actually 9.55mm in diameter and did not seat correctly. Pulled out a different 1.85 shim and it plopped right in.

Sure was a lot of swearing over .07mm

Not going to fly the mission accomplished banner until it is running but I am feeling pretty good at the moment.
 

snakebitten

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Re: valve adjust problem

Great job!

Bet you're relieved. :)
I am for you.
 

avc8130

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Re: valve adjust problem

becoyote said:
Bingo!

The new shim should have been 9.48mm in diameter, it was actually 9.55mm in diameter and did not seat correctly. Pulled out a different 1.85 shim and it plopped right in.

Sure was a lot of swearing over .07mm

Not going to fly the mission accomplished banner until it is running but I am feeling pretty good at the moment.
Ok...add measure shims...both thickness AND diameter to the steps apparently.

Congrats for hunting down your nightmare. Now make sure the cams are timed and the chain guide is in place and fire that bad girl up!

ac
 

becoyote

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Re: valve adjust problem

::015::

Done and re-checked! All is good!

I'm sure the timing has stayed the same as I put bunches of marks on the chain and sprockets and used zip ties too as suggested in Greg's write up.

How do I go about checking the chain guide?

It looks good from what I can see at the bottom, the very little I can see from the top looks good, I've spun the motor a few times and everything seems good. Is there a more accurate way I can check it?
Is there just the one in the rear where the tensioner is and the short one in the front of that you can see with the clutch cover off? Not really seeing anything up near the exhaust cam sprocket.
 

jaeger22

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Re: valve adjust problem

Use a mirror and look down from above. This is what you do NOT want to see:

The chain guide must be behind the chain so the adjuster can push on it. If you can see that is behind the chain you are good. You didn't take the intake cam out so it is very unlikely that the guide could have gotten out of place. I think you are good to go! Put that puppy back together and ride! ::008:: ::001::
 

jaeger22

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Re: valve adjust problem

Is there just the one in the rear where the tensioner is and the short one in the front of that you can see with the clutch cover off? Not really seeing anything up near the exhaust cam sprocket.
I missed this part. Yes the one in the front is short and will not get out of place. The cylinders lean forward so gravity will keep the front one in place but tend to let the back one (intake) flop forward when the chain is out which can allow the guide to get beside the chain and not behind it. Again, as you didn't take the intake cam out, I don't see any way it could have happened in your case. You should be good to go! ::26::
 

Koinz

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avc8130

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Re: valve adjust problem

Koinz said:
Greg, Just read your doc. very nicely done. Did you need to remove your altrider bar on the right side? I know you can get the side cover off without removing it.....and I assume you disconnected your battery?
I pulled my crash bars mostly to open up the access to the FRONT of the engine to gain access to help guide the valve cover with gasket on/off.

ac
 
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