USA S10 Stock Dyno Results
- Thread starter X5
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Thanks! The split between 3rd and 4th is definitely showing. Did you see the graphs posted earlier by the guy who ran his California bike in all six gears? I think it's cool that we're finally getting some actual data that proves the restriction is also on U.S. bikes.
I find it interesting that you have the torque dip at around 4250RPM in gears 4 and 5, but it looks pretty flat in 3rd. :-\
I find it interesting that you have the torque dip at around 4250RPM in gears 4 and 5, but it looks pretty flat in 3rd. :-\
Did not see CA dyno before I posted this but now did see since you posted Tremor, thanx.
Dyno tuner said the 5 HP or so from 3rd to 4th was "normal" in his experience. He tried to explain to my non-mechanical mind that third gear rev's up to redline so fast that it does not benefit from the cam as much as 4th gear on the dyno.
I had hoped that the addition of the PCV plus AutoTuner and Arrow Headers added more than a couple of HP on the CA bike.
Dyno tuner said the 5 HP or so from 3rd to 4th was "normal" in his experience. He tried to explain to my non-mechanical mind that third gear rev's up to redline so fast that it does not benefit from the cam as much as 4th gear on the dyno.
I had hoped that the addition of the PCV plus AutoTuner and Arrow Headers added more than a couple of HP on the CA bike.
I'm chalking up the California hp reading to the variation that exists between different dyno machines. That run was done on an eddy current dyno, which are the best type, but variation exists among them. Too bad the guy didn't have a base line run on the same dyno while the bike was stock. Dyno runs are best used as a comparison tool provide you are using the same dyno. You can go crazy comparing one dyno machine's results with the other, although I still fall into that trap sometimes. :-\X5 said:Did not see CA dyno before I posted this but now did see since you posted Tremor, thanx.
Dyno tuner said the 5 HP or so from 3rd to 4th was "normal" in his experience. He tried to explain to my non-mechanical mind that third gear rev's up to redline so fast that it does not benefit from the cam as much as 4th gear on the dyno.
I had hoped that the addition of the PCV plus AutoTuner and Arrow Headers added more than a couple of HP on the CA bike.
One thing I know for sure is the reading from the CA dyno runs in gears 1 and 2 cannot be explained by 'not benefitting from the cam' there's too large of a difference there. There's a power restriction on the U.S. bikes...no doubt in my mind now. Also, I'm thinking that your runs were not done on an eddy current dyno because with an eddy current you can increase the resistance to where the quicker spin-up is no longer a factor.
Notice the numbers are not identical between the two charts posted. One is SAE 5 smoothing and the other is SAE 0 smoothing.
3.5 HP between 3rd and 4th is not worth the flashing ECU mod. Ultimately a pull pre and post ECU flash with the same bike on the same dyno is ideal.
Anyone expand on dyno error and HP variations between lower and higher gears?
3.5 HP between 3rd and 4th is not worth the flashing ECU mod. Ultimately a pull pre and post ECU flash with the same bike on the same dyno is ideal.
Anyone expand on dyno error and HP variations between lower and higher gears?
What is very interesting is the AFR on a stock bike. It does not seem so be running as lean as I thought.. At one point it is near 12.1Tremor38 said:
I got a chance to ride a new demo bike the other day and it was very nice in that range.
Now that we have had these dyno runs to compare, I would really like to see a run with the Diapson change on a stock bike with just a can.. That would tell us a lot about the changes available and whether running a PCV would be needed.
Very interesting..
Oh, X5, thanks for doing this..
Yes, but there is an 18hp split between 1st gear and the higher gears. Why are you concentrating only on the smallish split between 3rd and 4th? Did you actually read the California run results?X5 said:
I did tremor but the low v. high gear variation/error thing my dyno tech tried to explain to me is stuck in my brain I guess which is why I requested more information. I went out of my way to say what I was going to test and how, days before my dyno on this forum. Should have suggested pulling in a gear lower than 3rd BACK THEN. Only thing I am ever "dead set against" is buying swamp land in Florida, fyi.
The rather rich area about 3 to 4000 rpm on the stock bike is nicely cleaned up with the PCV-AT notably. Perhaps this rich area is related to the slight dip in torque around the same range? I feel a bit better about adding a K&N or the other high flow filter now that I see things are not lean on the stock bike.
Please also note that I did not do any AirScrew or CO modification on my bike.
The rather rich area about 3 to 4000 rpm on the stock bike is nicely cleaned up with the PCV-AT notably. Perhaps this rich area is related to the slight dip in torque around the same range? I feel a bit better about adding a K&N or the other high flow filter now that I see things are not lean on the stock bike.
Please also note that I did not do any AirScrew or CO modification on my bike.
OK cool. An 18hp split cannot be explaind by the cam aspect. I kept adding stuff to my second post as I thought of it, but it sound's like your dyno was an inertia drum type if it had no resistance setting to compensate for the quicker spin-up in the lower gears.X5 said:
That's a nice torque curve, err flat line ::003::
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What we have been reading about with the benefits of the reflash is to get rid of the loss of power somewhere below 5,000 RPM. In looking at these graphs comparing 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears, I see a small HP difference, but it appears to me to be linear from bottom to top.
I guess to add to this, for my thinking, if we really do have such a dip in stock USA bikes as shown on the "before" Akra graph and the Akra can alone results in a nice power and torque curve such as these on X5's bike, with no low RPM dip, I wouldn't be inclined to spend the extra $$ for a reflash to add 4 HP on top.
I guess to add to this, for my thinking, if we really do have such a dip in stock USA bikes as shown on the "before" Akra graph and the Akra can alone results in a nice power and torque curve such as these on X5's bike, with no low RPM dip, I wouldn't be inclined to spend the extra $$ for a reflash to add 4 HP on top.
I thought the Diaposan was to give us close to full power in 1,2 & 3rd gear overriding the butterflies to fully open them up.
Yes, and the largest limitation is in 1st gear where you're at an 18hp deficit! Second gear is at close to a 10hp deficit if you look a the California dyno results. The SMALLEST limitation is in 3rd gear, but that's what the detractors are chosing to focus on, and for the life of me I don't know why.....that and the 4hp gain over the OEM peak value which has NEVER been what the Diapason mod was all about.HoebSTer said:
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Look, 1st gear is at greater than a 10hp deficit in the lower RPM range then works it's way to an 18-20hp difference at peak. Second gear is at about an 8hp difference. The ECU flash may or may not smooth out a dip in the lower RPM range depending on what bike you have, but it's never been all about getting rid of the dip either. Its main purpose is 'eliminating the power restriction' by allowing the Throttle body's to open fully.
People can rationalize all they want and if they're content as is more power to them, but I just don't get all the play-down that's going on here.
I haven't seen one, but really would like to see one on a stock bike with no more than an after market can..X5 said:
That would really show what the flash is doing. imho
You'll have to wait for Blue Eye's run, but that won't be on a stock bike. The best we can hope for on that is to see power in all of the gears be reasonably close. I'm thinking we'll see the power gap between 1st and the rest of of the gears almost completely disappear.
I also won't dismiss the evaluation from Blues eyes that there is noticably 'more power everywhere' after doing the reflash on a bike that was already dialed in with the PC/AT, Akra can and headers. I take notice of that sort of thing, but maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps I should staring at the lack of a 'dip' in the dyno curve and coming up with excuses about why I shouldn't do the mod
Sorry, it's getting late, I'm getting punch drunk and it's past my bed time.
Thanks again to everyone who took the time to do these runs.
I also won't dismiss the evaluation from Blues eyes that there is noticably 'more power everywhere' after doing the reflash on a bike that was already dialed in with the PC/AT, Akra can and headers. I take notice of that sort of thing, but maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps I should staring at the lack of a 'dip' in the dyno curve and coming up with excuses about why I shouldn't do the mod
Sorry, it's getting late, I'm getting punch drunk and it's past my bed time.
Thanks again to everyone who took the time to do these runs.
I'm also thankful for the runs everyone has done. There is a lot of good info there. What I'm looking for in the stock bike run with ECU flash, is the AFR to see how they have changed the fueling and then the power and torque curves. That will be very interesting..Tremor38 said:You'll have to wait for Blue Eye's run, but that won't be on a stock bike. The best we can hope for on that is to see power in all of the gears be reasonably close. I'm thinking we'll see the power gap between 1st and the rest of of the gears almost completely disappear.
I also won't dismiss the evaluation from Blues eyes that there is noticably 'more power everywhere' after doing the reflash on a bike that was already dialed in with the PC/AT, Akra can and headers. I take notice of that sort of thing, but maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps I should staring at the lack of a 'dip' in the dyno curve and coming up with excuses about why I shouldn't do the mod
Sorry, it's getting late, I'm getting punch drunk and it's past my bed time.
Thanks again to everyone who took the time to do these runs.