Transmission, shaft or chain?

Quique

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I've been looking at different brands and shaft models are disappearing. BMW of course, Triumph tiger 1200, our ST but no longer available in Europe, Honda Goldwing the only honda with shaft transmission. I wonder what's wrong with shaft. I love it, no maintenance, no worries, except that it breaks of course. The chain is a nightmare, cleaning, lubricating, pulling it so often. Is it a matter of final price?
 

Checkswrecks

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Excitement sells motorcycles and shafts are not very sexy.
 
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Boris

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Nothing wrong with shaft drive, has many benefits, which you’ve already mentioned . I suppose one of the negatives or trade offs is that it brings more weight with it as well.

Modern chain set ups are no where near as problematic as you suggest. Lubing is easy via an auto lube system, the maintenance they require is infrequent, changing them for most people would be about once every 4 years and about 90 minutes effort.

Thing I’d miss most if I moved from shaft drive is the cleanliness of the rear of the bike. Lube does seem to get everywhere on the chain side. Wheel, seat, grab bars, luggage etc
 

Quique

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haha I know that size is not important, but as long as a shaft.... and spinning... ok ok I stop here, just joking. Seriously, only BMW and Triumph? amazing
 

Quique

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Modern chain set ups are no where near as problematic as you suggest. Lubing is easy via an auto lube system, the maintenance they require is infrequent, changing them for most people would be about once every 4 years and about 90 minutes effort.
It must be this. I remember when I had a chain motorcycle cleaning it every 500 km or less, it was a punishment. Perhaps it is easier nowadays.
 

VRODE

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Chain/sprockets = less weight. Minimal effect on performance. Easier to package/engineer.
Requires more maintenance and is a consumable
Shaft= heavier. Affects output more. Requires a package that minimally affects suspension and drivability.
More robust. Minimal maintenance (on some brands anyway), should not require replacement.
 

RCinNC

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From a maintenance/cleanliness perspective, I much prefer the shaft drive. I definitely prefer the shaft drive when it comes time to change the rear tire; having changed tires on both chain drive and shaft drive, the shaft drive is easier. Not nearly the mess, and no realignment to contend with. I'm with Boris on the clean up issue; I hate constantly having to de-gunk the fling-off from the chain that gets on the rear wheel.

Chain drives are definitely cheaper though, and quite a bit more efficient when it comes to power transfer. If I rode a sport bike, I'd prefer a chain.

It looks to be a moot point, though. The S10, the GS, the Tiger and the Moto Guzzi are the only ADV bikes being made that use one.
 

Eville Rich

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The other advantage of a chain is the ability to re-gear based on how you use the bike. More off-road? Consider a rear sprocket with more teeth, or even a smaller front sprocket. Relatively easy to change out. Did that with my WR250R and it improved performance, especially when loaded with camping gear.

Eville Rich
2016 S10
2015 WR250R
 

MFP

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As mentioned above by RCinNC, Moto Guzzi embraces shaft drive (as is their tradition) so much
so that there are shaft drives still in their whole current line-up.
The V85TT is a pretty decent enough entry in the mid/large Adventure bike category however IMHO
I am not a big fan of a large CC air-cooled engine in a somewhat modern bike.
 

Quique

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I forgot the Guzzi, it is true. I am not only talking about the ADV or trail sector, but also about the GT sector, which could be considered also as adventurous if someone makes a trip of 10 thousand km. In the GT sector, the FJR and the Kawa 1400 have disappeared at least in Europe, and only BMW keeps the shaft drive, along with the huge Goldwing if I am not mistaken. It makes me wonder why.
Someone before said something that made me think. "Most of the users". I think that this is the key. Let's say that 10% of the users will make a 10.000 km trip in their lifes. Among them, let's say that 50% do not care to be cleaning and lubing the chain every morning. In addition, many users will sale the bike before changing the chain. From the industry point of view, a component like the shaft which makes the bike more expensive and less competitive and is only demanded by a short number of clients, is a burden to be avoided.
 

Dirt_Dad

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I'd much rather have a shaft over a chain. But the performance that makes the motorcycling I find most satisfying doesn't come with a shaft. So I go with the less desirable drive method.

In the end it's a worthwhile trade.
 

RCinNC

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Much as I prefer the shaft drive, I'm already getting accustomed to the idea that my next bike isn't going to have it. Right now the Tracer GT9 looks like a potential replacement. I've got about another year til I hit 100,000 miles on the Super Tenere, and I want to hit that milestone before I start considering something new. At my next oil change I'm going to submit a sample to Blackstone Labs and see what's happening inside the engine, and see if that gives me any sign regarding how serious I should be searching after the six digit magic number...
 

Sierra1

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Y'all are looking at this from our point of view. The manufacturers look at this from a totally different perspective; money & power. Chain drive is lighter, simpler, and cheaper to manufacture. They also transmit more of the engine's available horsepower to the road. That's it. They don't care how dirt your wheels get, or how often you need to adjust them.
 

RCinNC

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LOL, I doubt that anyone here is laboring under the impression that the manufacturers give a crap about how we feel about de-gunking our rear wheel, or adjusting the rear wheel after a wheel change. I imagine a driving reason for the Yamaha engineers to put a shaft drive on the S10 very much was about money, in that it was a marketing decision; the GS had one, and that was the bike that the S10 was supposed be be a cost effective alternative to. Advertising for the S10 could then tailor itself along the lines of "hey, look....our bike has all the bells and whistles that the GS has, only we offer it at a much cheaper price AND with the traditional Yamaha reliability". Yamaha obviously wasn't concerned in this case about the costs of a shaft drive over a chain, because they hoped that the particular market they were aiming for would easily accept the added cost. Otherwise they'd have just stuck a chain drive on it like most of the other bikes in the Yamaha line, and it would have been looked at more as a competitor to the DL1000 rather than the GS. In this particular case, Yamaha probably thought that a shaft drive was indeed worth the added cost of manufacture, if it allowed them to draw potential buyers away from BMW. Yamaha might not care about dirty back wheels, but they no doubt did care about cracking into a market that was eluding them.
 

Berg_Donk

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I have no problems with chains. They're only dirty if you over lube them, and rarely need adjustment, and once they do, its usually time for replacement.

The shaft setup of the S10 still needs lubing and oil changes, and the seals leak from time to time, they're not maintenance free.
 

Bmwdumptruck

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I reckon Yamaha deciding to not update the S10 and FJR models to Euro5 shows how their looking ahead to how biking as a whole is going. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere we are a dieing breed and will be all but gone in twenty years. Sales of new bikes are way less than say twenty years ago. With BMW all but cornering the biggest corner of the marketplace and KTM crashing in on things as next best, it leaves Triumph and the Jap4 fighting over a pretty small share. They have to look at how and where to invest in the future. And thats just not going to be competing with high end models like the current GSs and KTMs. Hence the new touring honda is a much cheaper base using the AT running gear, I reckon it’s where they’ll all be heading. And if we also add in the demise of the IC engine, money just isn’t going to be invested in expensive range topping models in years to come.
 

Tenman

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I've have a tweaked Kawi zrx1200. I romp a little every now and then. I hardly ever have to adjust the chain and I can do it with the tool kit. Modern chains and lubes have come a long way. No big deal to me. My S10 is the second bike I've had with a shaft. I love it. The first one was a 1978 Yamaha 750 special. You could put it in 1st gear and romp on and off the throttle and almost make it jump off the ground. Hit or let off the throttle hard in a curve and it would get squirrely. 1639989463940.png
 
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