You've got to remember that reputation was built "back in the day". 30, 40 years ago if you wanted a motorcycle that would run for high mileage with little (other than routine vavle adjustments) effort, your only choice was BMW. They were "the" long distance bikes. Not fast, not particularly "sexy", but dead stone reliable. Unfortunately, BMW has long since lost that quality and have experienced a series of issues, one after the other in the last decade. If you check the IBA records for the past few years "the" motorcycle to beat is the FJR. Go back a few years, it was BMW..... ::022::SPX said:I am curious whether miles ridden per year factors into this.
BMW has a reputation for being the motorcycle of choice for high mileage riders, but one must also wonder whether the reputation is correct?
True as Starbucks used to be fewer and further between, so bmws got higher milage!>oldbear said:You've got to remember that reputation was built "back in the day". 30, 40 years ago if you wanted a motorcycle that would run for high mileage with little (other than routine vavle adjustments) effort, your only choice was BMW. They were "the" long distance bikes. Not fast, not particularly "sexy", but dead stone reliable. Unfortunately, BMW has long since lost that quality and have experienced a series of issues, one after the other in the last decade. If you check the IBA records for the past few years "the" motorcycle to beat is the FJR. Go back a few years, it was BMW..... ::022::
Unfortunately, BMW stopped building the old simple & reliable Air Heads.SPX said:I am curious whether miles ridden per year factors into this.
BMW has a reputation for being the motorcycle of choice for high mileage riders, but one must also wonder whether the reputation is correct?
Agree. BMW used to make a bike that was easy to service, lasted well and had good parts support. Those that chose one were typically the ones that did the big miles and needed the reliability and valued that more than the "cafe racers".oldbear said:You've got to remember that reputation was built "back in the day". 30, 40 years ago if you wanted a motorcycle that would run for high mileage with little (other than routine vavle adjustments) effort, your only choice was BMW. They were "the" long distance bikes. Not fast, not particularly "sexy", but dead stone reliable.
Sound Familiar?The term café racer developed among British motorcycle enthusiasts of the early 1960s, specifically the Rocker (or ton-up boy) subculture. The term describes a style of motorcycle for quick rides from one "transport café" or coffee bar to another. Cafe Racers were also common in Italy, France and other European countries.
In 1973, US freelance writer Wallace Wyss, contributing to Popular Mechanics magazine, asserted the term café racer was originally used in Europe as a "put-down" toward riders who pretended to be road racers but instead only parked outside cafés.
They must be doing some kind of new math in this article. A BMW problem rate of 30% vs. Yamaha's 11% equals about three times more reliable, not six times.elwood said:from the article....
and the best brand, Yamaha, is about six times more reliable than the worst, BMW.
You could be describing our beloved S10oldbear said:Not fast, not particularly "sexy", but dead stone reliable.
Yep looks like a Typo. They do admit they are motley fools though, so you have to give them that.markjenn said:They must be doing some kind of new math in this article. A BMW problem rate of 30% vs. Yamaha's 11% equals about three times more reliable, not six times.
Trouble is in my world, and that's just me of course, I do expect at least equal or less risk for my extra 40% price than that. If I paid 40% more and things were equal then fair enough I suppose, but then there is three times the chance of something being a pain. Six times the chance that there will be no dealers around to look after it where I am, and probably 6 times the cost to get it transported etc.markjenn said:And as others have said, a bike that isn't as reliable as another may be reliable-enough. Even for the most unreliable bike in the survey (BMW), more than 2/3'rds of owners reported no serious problems in four years of ownership.
- Mark
Except the difference isn't 40% anymore as BMW has lowered the price over the years while Yamaha has raised theirs. Base MSRP price on a R1200GS is $16.1K vs. $15.1K for the S10. That's a 6% hike, not 40%. Now to be fair, you may get hit for the destination charge on the BMW more than a F&S for the Yamaha and there might be a couple other little things, but even a very careful analysis done a while back only showed about a $2K difference. And you get a std 3-yr warranty. Yamaha's price advantage has been seriously eroded.GrahamD said:Trouble is in my world, and that's just me of course, I do expect at least equal or less risk for my extra 40% price than that.
In My world base BMW GS price is 22K EXCEPT you can't get them unless you wait 6 months and the specs on those are V-Strom specs.markjenn said:Except the difference isn't 40% anymore as BMW has lowered the price over the years while Yamaha has raised theirs. Base MSRP price on a R1200GS is $16.1K vs. $15.1K for the S10. That's a 6% hike, not 40%. Now to be fair, you may get hit for the destination charge on the BMW more than a F&S for the Yamaha and there might be a couple other little things, but even a very careful analysis done a while back only showed about a $2K difference. And you get a std 3-yr warranty. Yamaha's price advantage has been seriously eroded.
- Mark
This is very old news and there is another thread on this forum as well as a huge thread on advrider. While the situation is unfortunate, BMW caught the problem (with a vendor's part) before a single accident occurred. And given the options BMW is providing customers (total refund, free loaner, $2500 compensation), customers are generally being covered pretty well.oldbear said:And BMW's problems just continue. Read the other day about the "No Ride" order issued by BMW on the new R1200RT. Seems the rear suspension could "collapse". BMW is offering a buy back at full price and several other options. Frankly, I cannot imagine how PO'd I'd be to drop 20+ large on a new machine and then be told I couldn't ride it because it was unsafe..... Sounds like the number crunchers are controlling things instead of the Engineers. I remember back in the old AMF days the standard joke about HD's was that they were the safest bike you could ride 'cause you couldn't keep 'em running long enough to get hurt on one. It was the same deal BMW's dealing with today, the bean counters were more worried about $$ coming in than delivering a quality product. Eventually HD pulled out of it once Willie G and the folks took over. Hope BMW does as well with a comeback...
I agree that BMW's response to their customers was pretty good, however my point was that this sort of thing simply should not have happened in the first place, and that this is only the latest of QC issues that BMW has faced in recent years. Not enough time/resources are spent on Quality to insure that this sort of thing does not happen. 20 Years ago BMW would never have permitted this situation to exist..now....markjenn said:This is very old news and there is another thread on this forum as well as a huge thread on advrider. While the situation is unfortunate, BMW caught the problem (with a vendor's part) before a single accident occurred. And given the options BMW is providing customers (total refund, free loaner, $2500 compensation), customers are generally being covered pretty well.
- Mark
+1oldbear said:I agree that BMW's response to their customers was pretty good, however my point was that this sort of thing simply should not have happened in the first place, and that this is only the latest of QC issues that BMW has faced in recent years. Not enough time/resources are spent on Quality to insure that this sort of thing does not happen. 20 Years ago BMW would never have permitted this situation to exist..now....
Well, our beloved S10's have had a number of problems that "should not have happened in the first place" too. And I'm not a believer that BMWs are suffering a reliability decline..... they've always required more TLC and repairs than Japanese products. Some of the 80's and 90's K bikes have had a myriad of issues and the old airheads can be very probelmatic beasts. They're loved by their owners who heap all sorts of repairs and updates to keep them on the road, but I'd take a CB750 over a R75/5 any day of the week and twice on Sundays. The good old days weren't that good.oldbear said:I agree that BMW's response to their customers was pretty good, however my point was that this sort of thing simply should not have happened in the first place, and that this is only the latest of QC issues that BMW has faced in recent years. Not enough time/resources are spent on Quality to insure that this sort of thing does not happen. 20 Years ago BMW would never have permitted this situation to exist..now....