The cost of cheap tools...

[2wheelhuble]

When I bought my Yamaha I decide to get a new torque wrench as well. Well my first oil change I pulled out my new wrench and adjusted it to spec and proceeded to tighten the oil plug...no strip it. I was P....ed. I checked the specs, checked the torque wrench setting, all was good, and then I look over at the torque wrench box and in it was a red paper. It stated under X amount of inch pounds it doesnt click.

So unless you guys have a secret fix my bottom case for 300 bucks plus labour will be the fix.

(I dont remember the torque specs at this moment, 47 year olds tend to forget stuff.)

I hope to ride the beep out of it this weekend.

Rant ends. ::009::

 

[autoteach]

This:
http://www.timesert.com/html/mtrcsert.html

I wouldnt use anything else on a fastener as critical as a drain plug. Helicoils are fine some places, this is not one of them. Word of caution, if you want the bolt to seal with either one, you have to hit that hole dead on. Take the pan off to do it right.

 

[Bigbore4]

^^^^^^^
Or Keensert is another similar. Properly installed can't be beat.

I have been on this forum a while and others longer. I am also a (former) professional mechanic. Not bashing the OP either. I seem to read more and more of mistakes with torque wrenches resulting in damage. Know the spec know the tool, if in doubt, set the torque clamp the drive in a vice and pull on the SOB. Does it feel right? I've been pulling wrenches for 40+ years and I still do this. If it don't feel right it prolly aint. And lord help us, torque specs get messed up in the conversion from metric to SAE.

That said, let's not obsess around torque. Head yup, rods yup, cases yup. Let the bashing begin I do not torque drain plugs. Any reasonable level of tight is adequate. I only started torquing axle nuts when MFR's quit using cotter pins.

My .02

 

[markjenn]

A new pan is only about $140 online. By the time you buy all the timesert stuff (which probably requires a very expensive drill bit), you may just want to replace the thing.

For kicks, I just checked my three torque wrenches and the two Sears models both click noticeably when set to the lowest reading available on the scale. But my big one (a HF which goes up to 150 ft-lb) has a lowest value of 10 ft-lb and it doesn't click.... I have to bump it up to 15-20 before a get a noticeable click. That's lame. Never noticed this before but then I only use this wrench on stuff that requires big torque, like wheel lug nuts. BTW, 14 ft-lb is the sump plug torque spec. If you've got a wrench that is too-low-scale-to-click at 14 ft-lb, it probably is way too big a wrench for this application.

It is general knowledge never to use a torque wrench at its extreme limits, high or low, where accuracy tends to deteriorate. My take on general motorcycle and auto repair is that it requires three to cover the full range of torques you might need to measure and not be using any at their extremes.....something to cover the light torques up to 20 ft-lb or so, another general purpose one that typically goes from about 10 ft-lb to 75, and a big one to get you up to 150 ft-lb or so. In this case, I'd trust my small one (2-20 ft-lb range) to more accurately measure 14 ft-lb than my medium one (10-75 ft-lb range).

- Mark

 

[autoteach]

all the tools, $71
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/291058353872?lpid=82

Here is the problem of "if it doesn't feel right..." Most people, like the OP, have no idea what "feel" it should have. I cringe about this as I continually read the stories of people stripping out drains and other fasteners. Hate to ruin an engineers day, but I can't remember the last time I torqued a 6x1mm fastener, and I haven't torqued a drainplug ever. I mean EVER. choke up on the wrench so that your thumb covers the fastener, and tighten as much as you like. Your drain plug wont come out, and if you strip it you are using about 5 lbs too many roids before changing your oil. Besides the feeling of tightening, tight, stretching, and or stripping, you have some major changes when you introduce a lubricant like oil, antisieze, moly, or anything else. There are so many variable that I would suggest that if you dont have any idea, grab some nuts and bolts at the hardware store, throw them in a vice and start snapping them off. Eventually, you will get the hang of Tight, and stay away from the last two. Some people "learn by doing", or rather "learn by wrecking".

 

[autoteach]

And, just as a note, it may be a 10mm fastener, I don't remember. So, do not run out a purchase what I posted unless you are sure.

 

[Rasher]

I have a set of 3 wrenches, the middle one covers 90% of what I need most of the time, the upper range one is only used for spindles, or sometimes to save me winding the lower range one all the way to the top.

The low range one is probably not really necessary as I too am happy to tighten a fair few things by feel - but personally anything that could cause an issue I torque to spec, wheels, brakes, suspension and sump plugs come into this as I would not want to crash after the sump empties itself on my rear tyre because I had not tightened it properly. Some people have a better "feel" than others, I would imagine anyone who has professionally wrenched for a living will be far better at this than people like myself that only maintain there own bike.

I always test the wrench on anything really tight, or if it feels as if it has not clicked in soon enough, I just wind the setting down about 25% or so - so far it has always clicked and I was just being over cautious, I just wind it back to spec setting and tighten fully.

 

[Ramseybella]

Drain plugs I go by feel, never trusted Torque wrenches for small stuff to many guys on the Triumph 1050 Tiger forum cracking sump pans using them or Ham fisting them in. It's like putting on a filter you don't need to crank it on.

 

[Swagger]

Save the money and repair it yourself. Then go procure a decent torque wrench. I just replaced a damaged sump plug on my latest project bike which came, rather thoughtfully, with stripped everything! Use the 1mm oversized plug kit .... comes with six plugs and crush washers ... and of course the tap to re-cut the thread

 

[offcamber]

all the tools, $71
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/291058353872?lpid=82

Here is the problem of "if it doesn't feel right..." Most people, like the OP, have no idea what "feel" it should have. I cringe about this as I continually read the stories of people stripping out drains and other fasteners. Hate to ruin an engineers day, but I can't remember the last time I torqued a 6x1mm fastener, and I haven't torqued a drainplug ever. I mean EVER. choke up on the wrench so that your thumb covers the fastener, and tighten as much as you like. Your drain plug wont come out, and if you strip it you are using about 5 lbs too many roids before changing your oil. Besides the feeling of tightening, tight, stretching, and or stripping, you have some major changes when you introduce a lubricant like oil, antisieze, moly, or anything else. There are so many variable that I would suggest that if you dont have any idea, grab some nuts and bolts at the hardware store, throw them in a vice and start snapping them off. Eventually, you will get the hang of Tight, and stay away from the last two. Some people "learn by doing", or rather "learn by wrecking".

What he said.....I have never used a torque wrench on a drain plug....snug is usually tight enough.

 

[redneckK20]

That's why it's not a bad idea to replace the stock washers with actual crush washers, like what suzuki uses. Crush the washer, then about an extra quarter turn and you can't go wrong.

 

[Marty]

all the tools, $71
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/291058353872?lpid=82
you have some major changes when you introduce a lubricant like oil, antisieze, moly, or anything else.

That is correct. Unless otherwise specified, all torque specs are for clean dry fasteners. Lubricating a fastener greatly increases the clamping force at any given torque. There is no need to use a torque wrench on an oil plug. Gently sung up the plug and then give the wrench a bump. This is a case of a poor carpenter blaming his tools.

 

[Swagger]

One of the worst crimes involving stripped threads in sumps is to reuse the washer. I won't even anneal a copper washer. Just not worth the potential hassle.

 

[NoMorBills]

I am glad I don't use a Torque Wrench. Far to much leverage. My little 12mm wrench works just fine.

 

[avc8130]

Torque wrenches don't belong anywhere near drain plugs. Use the PROPER wrench. Believe it or not, wrenches are sized reasonably so you really have to work to strip something. Torque wrenches are sized so you can easily apply the MAX torque.

Snug it up. If it leaks, snug it a TINY bit more. If it still leaks, new crush washer.

ac

 

[markjenn]

I generally do sump plugs by feel also, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The problem here was misuse of a torque wrench, not use of torque wrench. If you don't think you have a good feel for sump plug torque, then you should use a torque wrench. No one is going to strip out a S10 oil drain plug if they're anywhere close to 14 ft-lb.

And the idea that sump plugs can be very lightly-torqued and it doesn't matter isn't a very good one either. If you significantly under-torque a drain plug it can loosen further and eventually start leaking badly, perhaps even badly enough to either result in engine damage due to oil loss and/or hose down your rear wheel with oil. It doesn't occur often, but it does occur. Sump plugs need to be properly torqued, either by an experienced hand or a torque wrench.

Finally, I don't adhere to the idea that re-use of crush washers is a contributor to mis-torquing of oil drain plugs notwithstanding someone over-torquing trying to get an old washer to seal. Using a new one is a good idea, but it is not gospel if the old one doesn't leak with proper torque on the plug. By the same token, over-torquing to stop a leak is not an acceptable substitute for a new crush washer.

- Mark

 

[krussell]

I generally do sump plugs by feel also, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The problem here was misuse of a torque wrench, not use of torque wrench. If you don't think you have a good feel for sump plug torque, then you should use a torque wrench. No one is going to strip out a S10 oil drain plug if they're anywhere close to 14 ft-lb.

And the idea that sump plugs can be very lightly-torqued and it doesn't matter isn't a very good one either. If you significantly under-torque a drain plug it can loosen further and eventually start leaking badly, perhaps even badly enough to either result in engine damage due to oil loss and/or hose down your rear wheel with oil. It doesn't occur often, but it does occur. Sump plugs need to be properly torqued, either by an experienced hand or a torque wrench.

Finally, I don't adhere to the idea that re-use of crush washers is a contributor to mis-torquing of oil drain plugs notwithstanding someone over-torquing trying to get an old washer to seal. Using a new one is a good idea, but it is not gospel if the old one doesn't leak with proper torque on the plug. By the same token, over-torquing to stop a leak is not an acceptable substitute for a new crush washer.

- Mark

My thoughts exactly, only I always use a new crush washer. I know for certain that I would always over tighten if it was not for my use of torque wrenches.

 

[Wanderer]

Howdy,
One more thought, spring loaded click style torque wrenches are most accurate at the mid point of their range. The closer you get to the minimum and maximum of their range accuracy diminishes. It's hard to get one torque wrench that can cover all of needed ranges on most bikes.
Later,
Norm
PS: One more thing with spring loaded torque wrenches, always return them to zero when done, if not the spring can take a set and give false readings.

 

[2wheelhuble]

Well that is the last time I use a torque wrench on small stuff. I have hand tighten many drain plugs and thats the first one stripped.

I must admit the "feel" part from some of you is a No brainer, but it was an attempt to do it by the book. "Epic fail"

 

[timothy.davis]

Some insight gained from the selection and calibration process that we use for torque wrenches. When selecting a torque wrench never factor the lower 20% of the wrench for use. The wrenches we calibrate are calibrated from 20% to 100% of the range. Thus saying if you have a calibrated wrench it will be repeatable in the upper 80% to plus or minus the rated tolerance of the wrench. How long a torque wrench will hold its tolerance is generally dependent on the quality of the wrench. One interesting thing I learned calibrating wrenches was how critical you hand placement on the handle is. If you choke up on the handle or hold it out at the very end you can make a perfectly good torque wrench fail calibration. The proper position for loading the wrench is in the center of the handle.