Tank Slapper?

avc8130

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
3,269
Location
North NJ
California said:
While the bike does have big luggage, it's never happened when there was anything in the luggage, nor if my wife was on board. In fact we did 1200 miles one weekend in the hill country, all on pavement, without even the slightest wobble.

No, they are not Conti Trail Attacks, They are Battle Wings.

Jim did lower the bike, is there any chance that a change in geometry made this possible? the front is down by sliding the tubes up about 1/2 inch and changing the links in the rear to lower it 3/4 inch.

I think the part of this that confounds me the most, is that it can happen, and then not happen again for hundreds of miles, hundred of turns. One would think that if there were a problem that could manifest itself so dramatically, that it would do it regularly, or the rider would be able to reproduce it at will. If it does it in corner x, sweeping right, at 45 mph, why cant I get it to do it there again? I know it may sound idiotic, but I've tried. Really? Who would want to risk possibly crashing, on purpose? I've been back to the same turn and ridden through at the same speed and, nothing?
You didn't mention you had substantially changed the geometry!

All bets are off now. Lowering links don't just change the height of the bike, they also change the linkage geometry of the rear suspension.

Do you NEED the bike lowered? If not, I suggest you return to stock geometry.

ac
 

EricV

Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
8,327
Location
Tupelo, MS
@California - How many miles on the tires?

It may be worth while to check and re-torque the steering head bearings. Loose bearings would aggravate this tendency. There is a specific procedure to torque the bearings. If you don't have the shop manual and a tool for it, let us know.

I haven't had this happen on the Super Ten, but have seen similar behavior with badly cupped front tires. Do you tend to have a light touch on the bars?

It's odd that you only experience it an a somewhat random manner. Something is certainly happening to start it off.

Do you shift your weight in long corners, or more or less keep the same position thru the corner?
 

California

Doofenschmirtz Evil Incorporated.
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
19
Location
Dallas/Ft Worth
Ok guys, here's more info..

I spent the better part this morning on this issue. First, I double checked the tire pressure settings, twice, with two different guages. Then I double checked that all the suspension settings were at the factory standard settings. Then I spent two hours riding through all the turns I could find, trying to make it happen. Guess What?

I can make it happen, almost at will now. I've discovered the following;

The duration of the turn is irrelevant, I can get it in short 90* turns, or in long sweepers.

I can get it going either right of left.

Once it starts, I discovered that by holding a very steady throttle position, I could maintain the wobble/slap/oscillation as long as I wanted, even after getting the bike upright and riding in a straight line.

I can stop it immediately by getting on the throttle pretty enthusiastically.

If I try to fight it, and slow down, it makes it much worse.

It seems that it almost always starts when I am decelerating in to the turn. If I slow to below the corner speed, and accel thru the turn it never happened.

I wish I had a GoPro, I could go out and film it and be back with proof, in less that a half hour.

Help?



I do not trail brake, at all, ever. In fact, when I got it to happen consistently, I di all of my slowing in a straight line, using only compression.
 

EricV

Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
8,327
Location
Tupelo, MS
That makes me think bearings even more. From what you have said, it occurs when you're loading the front in decell. Traditional "tank slappers" occur more when the front end is light from what others have said in this thread.

Post a pic of the front tire, if you would. Close up enough to show tread wear.

A surprising number of Super Ten riders have found the steering bearings loose, more than once.
 

jrb_nw

New Member
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Messages
155
Location
Portland, Oregon
Ugh - not fun. I was spit off an ill-handling RD350 decades ago and still can't forget it. As to your observations - when you decelerate in a turn you shorten the front trail and steepen the fork rake, this can create or worsen an oscillation - think of a shopping cart with a bent axle, how they oscillate. The fact that the front forks have been adjusted makes this effect worse, even though supposedly the rear adjustment should equalize.. If you stiffen the rear it will also compound the problem as all of these have the effect of steepening your front rake.

Raise the front triple tree back up and or reduce the rear preload, I suspect the problem will be gone. Front tire wear can also definitely exacerbate the issue - my ST1300 would shake the bars at a very high rate at slow speeds when getting off the gas, they are known for that.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
 

ADVFireFighter

New Member
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
305
Location
Interior Alaska
Snap a pic of your front tire wear please...
Used to happen to me on my XX on the track with a certain tire and inflation/wear...
 

Twisties

Active Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Messages
709
Location
Brookings, OR, USA
No, you are not the only one...

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=4660.msg83448#msg83448

I switched back to the Battlewing tires and have not had a repeat performance. Still on stock suspension. About 7k miles on the Battlewings under various load and riding conditions.

As for what causes this sort of problem (avoids semantic debate ::013::), it occurs when under the specific envelope of conditions of loading, riding, and design that a harmonic (resonant) frequency exists. That really isn't an answer per se, but that is what the phenomenon is... a harmonic vibration. Changing the operating parameters should, in theory end it. This can be speeding up, slowing down, a change in body position, etc. Knowing how much to change or what to change is the problem. Getting it done fast enough to avoid a wreck is another problem. Then once you have gotten conditions outside of those that allow the harmonic, it can take some time for the vibration to damp down.

My wife had one on her F650GS that resulted in a high side and totaled the bike. She still rides, but the fact that this can occur without warning at any time and no one can really say what to do when it happens or how to avoid it bothers her quite a bit.

She now rides a lowered Super Tenere without issue.

Good luck with it!
 

zamfield

New Member
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
167
Location
Martinsburg, WV
EricV might be going in the right direction... Could be a bearing issue but I'd look at the tires too.
Can't check enough with an issue like this.
 

California

Doofenschmirtz Evil Incorporated.
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
19
Location
Dallas/Ft Worth
I think I may have found the problem.

after mulling it over, I decided to do what we should always do with any problem that has us a might bit befuddled.

Go back to the beginning! Sort of like when you call the computer help line and they ask it it's plugged in...


1. Recheck tire pressures

2. Reset all suspension settings to factory standard

3. Check all attachments, and mounting bolts are set to proper factory tightness..

Guess what! All four of the cinch bolts on the bottom triple tree were, um, less than properly tightened. One of them so incorrect that I would categorize it as "LOOSE"!

So after checking every nut, bolt, screw, clamp and thingamajig on the suspension of the bike, I took it for a ride. Within the first mile, I could already tell it was better, tighter, more solid/stable feeling. So I rode out to the esses that were producing consistent wobble, and I'm sure the people living on those corners think there's a nut case out there, I rode back and forth and back and forth, and never once got even the slightest hint of a wobble at all.

This weekend were going on a two day through the mountains of Arkansas, I'll report back on Monday.....
 

Dallara

Creaks When Walks
Founding Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Messages
2,195
Location
South Texas
California said:
Guess what! All four of the cinch bolts on the bottom triple tree were, um, less than properly tightened. One of them so incorrect that I would categorize it as "LOOSE"!

That'll do it! Having all the fork pinch bolts on one triple clamp completely loose, especially the lower one, will produce all sorts of wobbles!!! ???

Any idea how or why they were so loose??? :eek:

Dallara



~
 

avc8130

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
3,269
Location
North NJ
I'm glad you found it. It had to be something like that to cause the symptoms you were having. Congrats! Now, without further ado:
::021::

ac
 

10 ER AY

New Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
287
Location
Decatur, Ga
To fully experience a tank slapper in all it's glory you need to get yourself a 1997 Suzuki TL1000S (pre damper days). Accelerate to high revs in 1st or 2nd gear and sharply cut the throttle back to idle with loose pressure on the bars. Strap in and ride that bull for all it's worth.

From what I've experienced in tank slappers, you ain't gonna recover from it mid turn. Hell, you'd be lucky to get your original color back from the ghost white you got when the bike took control.
 
Top