Super Tenere vs. BMW 1200gs?

[Sparafucile]

So, I've ridden the BMW R1200GS and walked away unimpressed. Why, you might ask? I don't think I liked the engine, and that seemed to be the biggest thing. It sounded terrible as well. It just didn't seem to "add up" to the amount on the sticker.

So I'm curious, has anybody ridden both bikes yet? Can anybody tell me what each one excels at? Just curious, since obviously they are direct competitors.

 

[Swagger]

I can't really add much to that. I rode one a couple of years back and wasn't impressed. Same thing with the XT ... one of the official press fleet bikes was just being PDI'd and I got the 'have a go, see what you think'. Again I was instantly smitten ... just, nice but why would I want one? Four weeks later .... I bought one and am now completely besotted with it. The press boys don't really rate them but I think we need to hear a longer term review.

I also seem to fit on the XT better than the GS

 

[caveman]

Both great bikes, I went for the yam as it felt more comfortable for a normal sized guy (200cm)
I also had a preference for the parallel twin over the boxer, other than that, they were the only
bikes I considered and I have always had great reliability from Yamaha.

 

[Venture]

One point I will add is that the BMW is air cooled and the Tenere is liquid cooled. This is a pro or a con depending on who you ask. Personally I prefer liquid cooled bikes even though some consider the cooling system a point of failure, but I think the advantages (stable operating temperature, no overheating, theoretically better performance from the same displacement) outweigh the disadvantages.

I especially bring this up since when I rode a 1200 a little while back it dumped all kinds of heat right onto my shins, which didn't thrill me at all.

 

[HoebSTer]

I rode a 1200 gs when they first came out and i wasn't impressed at all either. i thought it was a lug.

 

[Cruiser]

I have a Yamaha Raider and its air cooled at 1900 cc. Its holding on great even in 100+ deg. And yes its hot when sitting on a stop light. But yamaha knows how to make air cooled work.

 

[Swagger]

..... I especially bring this up since when I rode a 1200 a little while back it dumped all kinds of heat right onto my shins, which didn't thrill me at all. ....

Now that's a plus point over in Europe. People love the way the cylinders provide weather protection to their feet. I'm going to go and ride another GS now that I have another proper benchmark.

 

[Homer61]

2 months ago i bought my new S10 straight off the shelf. Traded in my '05 GS and until now didn't look back. The S10 gave the same feeling that i had with my ST1100 and the Varadero and that feeling was "Home sweet home". Everything comes together, the engine, the weight (although heavier then the GS), the look, the interaction.
Don't get my wrong, the GS is a great bike but it doesn't have any soul i find and therefore gets boring very quick.
After 2 months and 6000km (3500Mls) i can only say.......HOME SWEET HOME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[markjenn]

I've rented GS's three times in Europe and have ridden a friend's pretty extensively. They're a bit of an acquired taste, but once you acquire it, you find them to be truly great bikes. They have an overall feeling of light steering yet great stability, especially during braking and bumps, that is quite confidence inspiring once you get used to the different feel. I think it is due to the telelever and longitudinal crank layout. The engine is a bit of an agricultural lump, but especially in the last few versions, it works really REALLY well.

I've never ridden a S10, but I've ordered one and I'm sure I'll love it too. People who think one or the other of these fine bikes is completely superior are mostly just tootin' their own horn for their personal preference. They're just different - a German and a Japanese interpretation of the same basic specification with extremely similar capabilities. I'm sure I could be happy on either, but the much cheaper price of the S10 (at least in the US), along with Yamaha making some of the most solid and reliable products out there (in contrast to BMW's "mixed" reliability record) carries the day for me. If the price were the same though, I'd probably get a GSA - where I ride (remote areas of WA, OR, and BC) with fuel stations hundreds of miles apart and often randomly closed, having huge range is just such a wonderful feature. I'll probably be carrying supplemental fuel bottles on the S10.

- Mark

 

[Venture]

I have a Yamaha Raider and its air cooled at 1900 cc. Its holding on great even in 100+ deg. And yes its hot when sitting on a stop light. But yamaha knows how to make air cooled work.

Two of the guys in my "core" riding group have air cooled Yamahas. One is a Warrior and the other a Raider. Both bikes have been problem free for them, but they do sweat their asses off compared to me when it's hot. Their good experiences are part of what really got me amped up when Yamaha announced the S10.

 

[markjenn]

Two of the guys in my "core" riding group have air cooled Yamahas. One is a Warrior and the other a Raider. Both bikes have been problem free for them, but they do sweat their asses off compared to me when it's hot. Their good experiences are part of what really got me amped up when Yamaha announced the S10.

I don't think air-cooling vs. water-cooling has much to do with heat on the rider. In fact, some of the bikes that roast their riders the worst are the big, very closely faired, water-cooled models like the FJR and Concours.

- Mark

 

[Venture]

Two of the guys in my "core" riding group have air cooled Yamahas. One is a Warrior and the other a Raider. Both bikes have been problem free for them, but they do sweat their asses off compared to me when it's hot. Their good experiences are part of what really got me amped up when Yamaha announced the S10.

I don't think air-cooling vs. water-cooling has much to do with heat on the rider. In fact, some of the bikes that roast their riders the worst are the big, very closely faired, water-cooled models like the FJR and Concours.

- Mark

True. A lot of it has to do with the overall design of the bike. Displacement plays a big role as well. The Raider is 1900cc I believe, which is almost twice as much displacement as I have in my Tiger. Logically, if you're burning twice as much fuel you're making twice as much heat as well.

 

[Mike Sisson]

I sold my 1200GSA not because I didn't love the ride, I did. Very stable, great cornering. Great riding position. Seat was so-so. It wasn't bothered when I loaded all my gear and then hit the twisties. Remained stable and unflappable.
They're great machines... I just had too many mechanical issues. They were all covered by warranty but that was about to expire and I realized I was going to be spending serious $$$ if I had to start footing the bill. Also, I was getting a bit nervous about being out in the boonies with the possibility of failure. It never stranded me but it was REAL close a couple of times.
My favorite part was that HUGE tank. Like MarkJenn I really like the ability to ride long distances on way-back roads with no worries about fuel. That is my biggest complaint with the VStrom. The S10 has a bit bigger tank and gets better overall mileage (as I've read) but I'll probably also be carrying a bit of xtra fuel.

 

[p3ga]

My favorite part was that HUGE tank. Like MarkJenn I really like the ability to ride long distances on way-back roads with no worries about fuel. That is my biggest complaint with the VStrom. The S10 has a bit bigger tank and gets better overall mileage (as I've read) but I'll probably also be carrying a bit of xtra fuel.

I give you guys credit, as I've never been able to outride my bladder.....for riding waay out in the boonies, I'll rig up something to carry a 1-2 gallon reserve.

 

[Mike Sisson]

I give you guys credit, as I've never been able to outride my bladder.....for riding waay out in the boonies, I'll rig up something to carry a 1-2 gallon reserve.

Are you kiddin'!! ;D I've got to stop about every 60" to pee. I like to stretch and smell the roses a bit as well. It's just nice to have the fuel volume so you don't have to worry about the next gas stop which can be a bit iffy sometimes when your out in the boonies. Have had a couple of real close calls with the Strom.

 

[Grunt58]

I sold my 1200GSA not because I didn't love the ride, I did. Very stable, great cornering. Great riding position. Seat was so-so. It wasn't bothered when I loaded all my gear and then hit the twisties. Remained stable and unflappable.
They're great machines... I just had too many mechanical issues. They were all covered by warranty but that was about to expire and I realized I was going to be spending serious $$$ if I had to start footing the bill. Also, I was getting a bit nervous about being out in the boonies with the possibility of failure. It never stranded me but it was REAL close a couple of times.
My favorite part was that HUGE tank. Like MarkJenn I really like the ability to ride long distances on way-back roads with no worries about fuel. That is my biggest complaint with the VStrom. The S10 has a bit bigger tank and gets better overall mileage (as I've read) but I'll probably also be carrying a bit of xtra fuel.

Exactly why I traded my 08 GS for the Yamaha.

 

[HoebSTer]

In time, I wonder how many other BMW guys will be coming over from the dark side??? Hmm, just curious!!!

 

[Grunt58]

In time, I wonder how many other BMW guys will be coming over from the dark side??? Hmm, just curious!!!

More than BMW may like to admit. They are real defensive on the BMW specific forums in regard to the Tenere. Most of the chatter over there centers on how "expense = quality". I had one post telling me not to let the door hit me in the ass on way out. That was in thread I started asking in a tactful way what happened to BMW quality and shrinking dealer network.

 

[Buckeye56]

Boy that's a little too intense! I guess I have never been that attached to any possession to blindly accept poor performance in any aspect whether actual performance or reliability. You pay your money and make your choice.

 

[Grunt58]

Boy that's a little too intense! I guess I have never been that attached to any possession to blindly accept poor performance in any aspect whether actual performance or reliability. You pay your money and make your choice.

My issues with BMW center not on poor performance so much as a price/quality basis. BMW builds a fine motorcycle. The company has forced dealers to close and has had issues regarding quality over the past several years, and wont admit it nor will they step up to do the right thing without having you pressure them to make it right. I used to have no issues with service (beyond the high cost) when they had qualified and exacting techs working on your bike. My local dealer has the techs worried more about the time of repair, rather than doing it right. The older more experienced guys left...leaving a pack of kids fresh out of school wrenching...taking shortcuts to beat the book time on repairs. This is widely known and discussed in BMW circles and folks where I live routinely take their bikes out of state to other dealers for service. My last set of issues with the GS should have been covered under warranty with no questions, however I was told that the parts in question were "in spec" (second time around for warped disk rotors).

I have been stranded a couple of times and had to call Roadside assistance (provided by BMW on each new bike they sell). At 625 miles I was stranded and the good folks at BMW informed me they could not find a tow to get my bike back to a dealer. I was 25 miles outside of a major city. I was on my own to get my new bike back for repairs. The next few issues I had were ones that I could ride in and get taken care of. Each time it was a 80+ mile trip to the dealer, time from work, having to arrange rides back...on and on. Then I wait for parts.....a month in the case of the brake rotors.

I just couldn't trust that I wouldn't get stranded again. Dealers are few and far between and my last experience with "Roadside Assistance" wasn't very positive. Where would I be at 3 am in the mountains of Georgia on my way to a rally? Now to be fair.....at one time BMW provided loaners for customers undergoing repairs, and I never had any major issues with my BMW's prior to the GS. Did I get a lemon? Dont think so.....my friend who rides an 09 GS has had similar issues. Discussions at rally sites uncover trends (fuel strips and rotors seem common along with leaking final drives and the occasional final drive failure). It was simply a matter of Yamaha building a bike that suits my riding style and giving me another option to the GS with a HUGE dealer network. I'm taking a " leap of faith" buying sight unseen but based on my research, I think I made the right choice. One should enjoy your journey instead of wondering in the back of your mind how your going to recover from a breakdown.