Super Tenere Under Powered?

[Big Blu]

It will far exceed all speed limits here in the US, that means it has 'enough' power. Beyond that is a matter of expectations, not necessity.
There are bikes with more power and those with less, none of them bad. Someone will always have a faster bike, a more powerful bike, a more expensive bike, a lighter bike, a beaver bike, ect.... I say, forget about the specs and, as always, ride the one that makes you smile!

::021::

Paul

 

[CentralCal]

I too felt the T mode was lethargic, unresponsive and feels like a lame 250cc bike until I set the CO to +3 for each cylinders. Now, with the CO changes, the bike is fun. I only use S mode in the tight twisties where I need the burst of acceleration to pass. I felt there was shudder/vibes around the 3k rev when upping the gears but no longer get these after the CO changes.

I have no access to Flash in my part of the world. The closest is Australia, but I don't want to risk losing the ECU in the mail. I would flash it if there are vendors in my country.

I have ridden the KTM 1190 adventure. Sure this bike brings more power but the S10 feels really planted at all speeds which inspires confidence. I had no idea what 'planted' means till I rode the S10. (Coming off from a Versys 650, Ninja 250R). I don't need the KTM 1190 power all the time, but I'll take planted every-time and everywhere I go.

Yes "planted" is the best way to describe it.
I've come out of corners in 4th when I should have been in 2nd and it just pulls me thru and I don't have to kick it down a gear.
"Planted" is the best way to describe it. My bike makes up for my mistakes....
::026::

 

[Checkswrecks]

Robocop & patrickg450, Thanks for the welcome! The reason I joined this forum is because I really wanted to get a sense from you diehard S10 Owners what the riding experience is on an S10. I have a number of mounts and currently, my long distance bike is a 1989 Yamaha Venture Royale which is a great bike to tour on... except when the pavement ends. I rode the bike coast to coast a number of years back and I can't tell you how many times I ran into road construction (where you had to muscle the bike through dirt and gravel) before you got to pavement again. It was a white knuckle experience to say the least since my Venture is a 900lb bike without me and my gear (and I always overpack). I also have an adventure bike (a 2007 Aprilia Caponord) which I have never taken offroad because it is VERY hard to get parts for it if the bike gets damaged. I had ordered some parts for the bike which were on back order for over a year before the dealership canceled the order. Anybody who owns an Aprilia bike probably knows my frustration. Fast forward to 2016 and I am thinking of upgrading my touring bike to a current adventure bike... perhaps the S10. The one thing I enjoy about my Venture is that it's got a lot of balls. With the bike fully loaded with me and all my gear, the bike can take off like a rocket due to the VMax V4 engine in it and corner pretty well (thanks to the air suspension). Ideally, in my next touring bike, I'd like the best of both worlds -- a comfortable long distance tourer that can traverse any type of road and a perky bike that can hold its own when passing on the highway. I've ridden my bike from the East Coast to the West Coast (Vancouver, BC). I've ridden from Massachusetts to Key West. Even rode on the Cabot Trail in Nova Scotia during a snowstorm (it wasn't my intention to do that, just happened). Just having the horsepower to get out of tight situations has saved my bacon a number of times but I guess I'll have to leave those stories for another day. I really appreciate all who have taken the time to give their S10 experiences on this topic!

Coming off the Venture and Capo, the Tenere ought to be like a refreshed perfect combo that has additional power.
The only way you are going to know is to test ride a couple. I say a couple because set-up makes a huge difference in comfort on these bikes. All be aware that these engines for some reason don't feel broken in till they have more than a couple of thousand miles.

 

[ace50]

my long distance bike is a 1989 Yamaha Venture Royale which is a great bike to tour on... except when the pavement ends. I rode the bike coast to coast a number of years back and I can't tell you how many times I ran into road construction (where you had to muscle the bike through dirt and gravel) before you got to pavement again. It was a white knuckle experience to say the least since my Venture is a 900lb bike without me and my gear (and I always overpack). The one thing I enjoy about my Venture is that it's got a lot of balls. With the bike fully loaded with me and all my gear, the bike can take off like a rocket due to the VMax V4 engine in it and corner pretty well (thanks to the air suspension).

A friend has a slightly modified Royale he takes off road. Probably a little lighter than yours though!
I traded my Royal Star Tour Deluxe in on the S10, haven't missed it one bit. It was nice on hyway, but just tooo heavy. ???

 

[Shovelhead]

My 2015 Tenere is not under powered for what I'll be using it for.

In a way, every motorcycle has a purpose based on it's design. Depending on what a person is expecting, all motorcycles "could be" considered under powered.

Knowing how and when to use the available power is the key to an enjoyable ride.

If you have laid down the miles you claim, then you should already know this and really don't need to be asking the question. I suggest you go ride one and decide for yourself.

 

[rider33]

again, keep in mind that big adventure bikes as a general rule are not speed demons. They are in now way slow, just too big and tall for the type of theatrics that say your typical 600 class sport bike can deliver. Of them, the S10 is perhaps the most balanced, the GSA is more of a road beast, the KTM more dirt. Either will have slightly more top end but for that you significantly add to your cost/hassle of ownership too. If you want a bike that can pretty much do everything you seem to be asking while being stone reliable and not particularly maintance intensive I would suggest you ride one for a bit & see what you think. I've ridden or owned nearly all of them actually an prefer the balance of the S10. I also like that 3-4 thousand miles out it doesn't break but if it ever should, odds are good there is a dealer in the next town. YMMV.

 

[Maverick]

Quote from Shovelhead

My 2015 Tenere is not under powered for what I'll be using it for.

In a way, every motorcycle has a purpose based on it's design. Depending on what a person is expecting, all motorcycles "could be" considered under powered.

Knowing how and when to use the available power is the key to an enjoyable ride.

If you have laid down the miles you claim, then you should already know this and really don't need to be asking the question. I suggest you go ride one and decide for yourself.

Shovelhead, I think we may be getting a little off the mark here.

I've been eyeing the S10 ever since it came out with the ES so anytime I see one on the street, I'll walk right up to the owner, introduce myself and ask them how they like their ride. One question I always ask is "What do you *not* like about your bike?". Even though, to date, I haven't come across one S10 owner who didn't like their bike, one common refrain I hear is that either they wish the bike were lighter or they wish it had more "grunt" on the street. I've noticed that one unique trait of S10 owners is that they are, invariably, honest.

My question about whether the S10 is underpowered not only comes from my interactions with random S10 owners but also the facts. When you compare the S10 to the BMW GS or the 1290 Super Adventure or the Ducati Multistrada, (all motorcycles in the same class) it comes up a little short on HP.

Ducati Multistrada : 160HP
1290 Super Adventure: 160HP
BMW 1200GS : 125HP
Super Tenere: 112HP

These are just off the top of my head.. and yes, I know that the HP to the rear wheel is going to be even less. You could say that the S10 and the GS are very close in HP ( 12HP or so difference). However, the GS is about 30-40 lbs lighter too.

In addition, one of the most popular mods that S10 owners make on their bike is flashing the ECU. When you take all of this into consideration, it makes me scratch my head and think "Well, maybe the S10 could use a little more grunt??"

Clearly, the Super Tenere has other positive attributes that, when taken into consideration, make it a fine bike, overall. But my original question was centered whether you folks thought the S10 seemed underpowered, especially when compared to other bikes in the same class.

 

[Big Blu]

"Underpowered" is a relative term. The Super Tenere has more then adequate power to fulfill it's intended purpose.
If you're looking for a track bike, look elsewhere.
If you're looking for a drag bike, look elsewhere.
If your looking for a red light racer, look elsewhere.
If your for the most powerful in class ........ look elsewhere.

Exactly what are you looking for?

Maybe a test ride is in order to help you determine if it's powerful enough to satisfy your expectations??

Paul

 

[Defekticon]

Seems there are really two questions here. As an owner here is my honest answer.

Is the S10 underpowered compared to some of the bikes in the same class - Yes.

Is the S10 underpowered. No.

The S10 is the fastest on road bike I've ever owned. Of course I'm coming from a KLR. I rode the bike in T mode the first two months without touching S mode and thought it was fast. I feel like the bike runs out of steam over 100mph. But it's not designed to be a touring bike, or a sport bike. It's power is down low, where you need it. It's got massive grunt and torque. It's really evident when I'm riding two up with my wife, and I get into it on an on ramp to catch up with traffic. I have a stock ECU and all I've done performance wise is a TB Sync which pretty much cleaned up all the issues I had with the power on the bike.

If you read the ECU flash threads, the ecu flash is not really a massive performance gain, you're unlocking limitations of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, and smoothing out the stock emissions restricted mapping. There are folks that go further, but that's not the majority of S10 owners.

The bike is heavy as all get out. So are all the other big adv bikes. 25 pounds isn't going to make a huge difference on a 500lb bike. The solution is to either hit the Gym, get your leg strength up (This is my winter goal) or buy a significantly lighter bike with all the trade-offs that are attached.

 

[Checkswrecks]

. . .
I've been eyeing the S10 ever since it came out with the ES . . .

. . . When you compare the S10 to the BMW GS or the 1290 Super Adventure or the Ducati Multistrada, (all motorcycles in the same class) it comes up a little short on HP.
. . .

In addition, one of the most popular mods that S10 owners make on their bike is flashing the ECU. . .

Flashing the ECU was very common on the Gen1 bikes, but your interest in the ES indicates you want a Gen2. A few people have flashed them but not many, and especially when compared with the Gen1. The Sport mode in the Gen2 is certainly not up there with the MultiStrada or 1190, but it will keep you entertained and the GS generally won't pull away at legal speeds unless it's a clutch-burning high rpm drag start.

In daily use and ergonomics, the GS and Tenere are birds of a feather. The Multi and 1190 are much more road racer-ish and will be left off-road when you come to gravel, wash-outs, etc. I find that my legs get cramped on the Multi after a while, too. All four are fun and there are no losers, they are just differences in flavor and feel, so each has their proponents and you need to ride each to see which taste suits you.

 

[Maverick]

Exactly what are you looking for?

Big Blu, I'm looking for a bike that can haul my fat a$$ and all of my luggage at an exhilarating clip in comfort on the highway, and has the flexibility to tackle gravel/dirt roads. Since this has different meaning for everyone, I'm just trying to get a consensus of S10 owner's thoughts. I will definitely test ride one, but that could be many months away here in snowy New England. Meanwhile, I just thought it would be a nice discussion to have on an S10 forum. Thanks for your post!

 

[Maverick]

... But it's not designed to be a touring bike, or a sport bike....

Defekticon, actually I thought it *was* designed to be a touring bike. When it first came out, Yamaha was touting the fact that the bike offered "all day" comfortable touring ergos and was specifically engineered to handle the twisties in the mountains.

 

[Rasher]

It lacks a top end rush more than anything.

Low-mid range is good, except early bikes in lower gears where restricted (easy enough to fix with ECU Flash) so has plenty of real world power for touring, solo or two-up (I have done both)

Even two-up it will pull very well up to and beyond 80mph, and solo into 3 figures relatively effortlessly - enough for most people most of the time.

I now have a full Arrow exhaust system and had it remapped fully on a dyno (for fuel and ignition) the Arrow headers remove the cats and it instantly pulls much harder up top and mine is now making more power at 6k than it peaked at in stock trim about 1500 rpm higher up, probably got about another 14-15BHP in total from all this and TBH despite being much faster the linear power delivery means it still feels relatively dull - but looking at the speedo the numbers climb noticeably quicker.

So I think it is more the delivery of the power with an almost "perfect" torque curve that is a big part of the problem and makes the bike feel slower due to no sudden rush of power.

As long as ripping into 3 figures all the time is not a priority it is OK, GS matching Power can be found with a full exhaust system and remap but it will still feel like a Tenere, just a slightly faster one. For me it is still quick enough to get me into lots of trouble with the feds so I really do not want anything any faster.

 

[AVGeek]

Seems there are really two questions here. As an owner here is my honest answer.

Is the S10 underpowered compared to some of the bikes in the same class - Yes.

Is the S10 underpowered. No.

The S10 is the fastest on road bike I've ever owned. Of course I'm coming from a KLR. I rode the bike in T mode the first two months without touching S mode and thought it was fast. I feel like the bike runs out of steam over 100mph. But it's not designed to be a touring bike, or a sport bike. It's power is down low, where you need it. It's got massive grunt and torque. It's really evident when I'm riding two up with my wife, and I get into it on an on ramp to catch up with traffic. I have a stock ECU and all I've done performance wise is a TB Sync which pretty much cleaned up all the issues I had with the power on the bike.

If you read the ECU flash threads, the ecu flash is not really a massive performance gain, you're unlocking limitations of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, and smoothing out the stock emissions restricted mapping. There are folks that go further, but that's not the majority of S10 owners.

The bike is heavy as all get out. So are all the other big adv bikes. 25 pounds isn't going to make a huge difference on a 500lb bike. The solution is to either hit the Gym, get your leg strength up (This is my winter goal) or buy a significantly lighter bike with all the trade-offs that are attached.

::026::

I think this is the best answer to your question. It is not underpowered for its intended purpose. I previously rode the Yamaha FJR (like many owners here) and while I occasionally miss the turbine-like power of the inline 4, the all day comfort, ergonomics, carrying capacity and all-road capability of the ST more than make up for it. In addition, I have a Gen 1 bike, and recently upgraded the clutch basket to the Gen 2 version, along with a TB synch, which made for a noticeable improvement in the smoothness of the motor and power delivery.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Big Blu, I'm looking for a bike that can haul my fat a$$ and all of my luggage at an exhilarating clip in comfort on the highway, and has the flexibility to tackle gravel/dirt roads. Since this has different meaning for everyone, I'm just trying to get a consensus of S10 owner's thoughts. I will definitely test ride one, but that could be many months away here in snowy New England. Meanwhile, I just thought it would be a nice discussion to have on an S10 forum. Thanks for your post!

The search function in this forum works really well and we have a number of BIG guys. Try searching with words like "heavy" and you should find plenty of winter reading.
::003::

 

[Shovelhead]

Quote from Shovelhead
Shovelhead, I think we may be getting a little off the mark here.

one common refrain I hear is that either they wish the bike were lighter or they wish it had more "grunt" on the street. I've noticed that one unique trait of S10 owners is that they are, invariably, honest.

But my original question was centered whether you folks thought the S10 seemed underpowered, especially when compared to other bikes in the same class.

Well, sorry if my answer was off the mark. Disregard my comments except for line 1.
I have not rode the other bikes you mention.

If I wanted my bike to be lighter or have more "grunt", I'd a picked a different one.

I've owned a lot of motorcycles and there ain't never been one of em that I couldn't find something that I didn't like about it, but there's been something I loved about every one of them.

I'm as honest as they come, so it's nice to know other S10 riders have the same trait. ::003::

 

[Defekticon]

Defekticon, actually I thought it *was* designed to be a touring bike. When it first came out, Yamaha was touting the fact that the bike offered "all day" comfortable touring ergos and was specifically engineered to handle the twisties in the mountains.

I think the term used was "Adventure-touring", and I'm not trying to be picky about that either. It's a totally different class of machine with very different interpretations by each big manufacturer. It is a split between enduro and touring bike, and makes compromises on both sides of that combination.

 

[Dogdaze]

I think the term used was "Adventure-touring", and I'm not trying to be picky about that either. It's a totally different class of machine with very different interpretations by each big manufacturer. It is a split between enduro and touring bike, and makes compromises on both sides of that combination.

I think I would have to go with Defekticon on this one, if that's your objective look at a Kawasaki GTR1400, BMW RT, BMW GTL1600, these will haul whatever you want at triple digit speeds all day, I would love one of those, unfortunately, my body dictates the ergos of the S10 or similar.

 

[Maverick]

I think the term used was "Adventure-touring", and I'm not trying to be picky about that either. It's a totally different class of machine with very different interpretations by each big manufacturer. It is a split between enduro and touring bike, and makes compromises on both sides of that combination.

Defekticon, sorry for the misunderstanding. I just assumed that you were using the word "touring" in the general sense... in other words, capable of traveling long stretches of road in comfort. In this sense, the term could be applied to sport tourers (fjr1300, St1300, k1600gt) or the luxury tourers (goldwing, k1600gtl) as well as the adventure tourers (1200gs, S10, 1290SA, etc.) . I understand that there is also a bit of overlap in those aforementioned groups as well.

 

[Maverick]

Well, sorry if my answer was off the mark. Disregard my comments except for line 1.

No worries! I appreciate that you are taking the time to weigh in on this question!