Super Ten vs GS

[zini]

Hi, just joined to see about feedback on the Super Ten vs a GS, cannot make up my mind between the two, but the GS is about 20% more expensive but isnt 20% better. Any thoughts?

 

[rem]

Welcome on, zini. As I have never owned a BMW, I don't feel qualified to comment. However there are many on this Forum who are, and they will. I CAN tell you that the Tenere is an awesome bike and you won't be disappointed. Good luck with it. ::004:: R. ::022::

 

[dcc46]

sounds like you already know the answer, welcome to the forum. ::022::

 

[barkingllizard]

many will chime in with 'comments', which don't matter as long as you are riding, with a simple hello, zini.....

 

[RED CAT]

Hi. Got both 08 GS1200 and 2012 S10. They both have their pros and cons. The S10 surprised me. I didn't think it would be as good as it is. No doubt the GS is more sopisticated and has more doo dads and is lighter but not enough for the difference in price. The GS also costs more to run with tuneups required every 10,000kms. If you bring it to the Stealer for service, expect $500. a pop everytime. Luckily I do all my own service or I could never afford this bike. I've only got 200 miles on the S10 but am really liking it. No regrets about selling the Beamer soon. Being Japanese, I'm expecting better reliability with the Yamaha. Its a really cool motorcycle. It feels more torquy on the bottom end than the Beamer. Suspension is better on the S10 too. Seat is much better. If I was starting from scratch like you I'd get the Yamaha but if I had nothing but money, I'd get the Beamer. Both awesome machines. ::020::

 

[Rasher]

I currently have a GS and I want an S10, both have their issues (IMO)

The S10 has a far smoother engine, but I am unhappy that Yamaha massively restricted power in the lower gears and the bike is no faster or quicker in stock trim than the GS (With its 8 year old design and engine that dates back decades) OK it can be sorted for £350, but it is a cost and hassle I could live without.

The S10 also steers very slowly, having ridden two S10's back to back with my GS, the GS feels much more sporty and turns far faster, so I personally would want to fit a shock with a ride height adjuster to try and get some agility back (and increase the Yamaha's limited ground clearance)

Lastly the Yamaha luggage is tiny, I know there are other options, but many 1st editions appear for sale in the UK with the luggage and would be a bargain, except I would still have to put aftermarket stuff on if I wanted to go on an Adventure beyond my own post (zip) code.


Now the GS is a brilliant bike, quirky, fun and does everything, but IMO is let down by...

Terrible reliability issues (like eating shaft drives regularly, many owners have had 3 or 4 fail on one bike and it is not uncommon for them to fail before 30k miles) they also have electrical issues and most GS riders who travel far carry various spares around. Mine was bought with 6k on the clock, and by 15k had had 3 faults fixed under warranty (blown fork seals, warped discs and a clutch problem) and I am now worried about how long it will be until the final drive packs up - and as they cost £1500 to replace I have had to extend the waranty which leads me to....

Running costs, BMW charge at least 50% more per hour than Japanese bike shops in the UK, a "simple" 6k service is £250, the 12k service cost me nearly £400, plus you have two service schedues, one for miles and one for age (annual) so if you do 4k a year you will need a 4k services at around 8 months and a few months later the annual service, so unless you do exactly 6k per year the costs are even higher.

The engine is quite vibey, although I am not too bothered as I bought the bike to slow me down after years of Jap hyperbikes, but if you want to cruise at much past 80 it is a bit intrusive, the Yam is still dead smooth at 100mph.

The Yamaha looks far more solid to me, and by the time the GS was two years old they had recalled thousands of them for several electrical issues and had numerous drive failures, so far the Yamaha seems so much more reliable.

If I was starting from scratch I would buy the Yamaha, the only reason I still have the GS is that I have spent about £3k on extra's and got the bike just how I like it, but despite the fun it brings the worry of breakdown / huge repair bills removes the joy.

If you can afford to swap bikes every couple of years then ride both and buy the one you prefer, but for a long term ownership proposition I would recommend the Yamaha.

 

[HoebSTer]

Rasher, I am by no means bashing the BMW, but do you think your thoughts are the same as others currently riding BMW's? Are they ready for a change? Just a general question!!! It is interesting to hear your thoughts towards the Yamaha while currently owning the BMW.

 

[Koinz]

Rasher, I am by no means bashing the BMW, but do you think your thoughts are the same as others currently riding BMW's? Are they ready for a change? Just a general question!!! It is interesting to hear your thoughts towards the Yamaha while currently owning the BMW.

Jeff, having owned a BMW and still ride with many BMW owners. It's almost a cult following with many of them.....and like any brand enthusiast, they will defend their brand to the end. Lol.

I've had Honda, Suzuki, BMW and now a Yamaha street bike. They all have their quirks and their perks in my opinion.YMMV.

 

[RED CAT]

Rasher!

I don't know about the massively reduced power in the 1st 3 gears. Actually only about 10%. Try Sport Mode. No shortage of power there. Mine feels more perky than the GS. Liking it better all the time. Another 200kms today for a total of 525.
Winter is coming again this week so have to satisfy myself installing farkles as soon as they get here. ::001::

 

[zini]

Many thanks for the feedback, took the plunge this morning and ordered a Tenere complete with panniers. Cant wait, it will be ideal for NZ roads

 

[GrahamD]

Congrats Bro..(yes I know it's a cliche' couldn't help myself)

Have fun with the beast, give the BMW some (friendly) stick mate..

::003::
Graham

 

[HoebSTer]

Jeff, having owned a BMW and still ride with many BMW owners. It's almost a cult following with many of them.....and like any brand enthusiast, they will defend their brand to the end. Lol.

I've had Honda, Suzuki, BMW and now a Yamaha street bike. They all have their quirks and their perks in my opinion.YMMV.

I know about the cult following, I have heard of that. I really used to think there was nothing but a Honda, well they have their heads planted elsewhere now on bikes. (i still have 2 Honda cars though, and a weed-whacker and Honda Pushmower)!!! If i was into boats or water-craft, i too would be getting the Honda Jet ski thing, and a Honda Outboard motor for a boat, but sure glad I don't have a boat interest, they cost alot of money!!

 

[Sartene]

...the XT 12 has won the most tests in different german motorcicle-magazins.....and in the absolut "best list" for the 50.000 KM test the XT takes 3rd place ....the BMW 1200 GS takes 20th place ....... ::003:: ::024:: ::024::

Questions? ::015::



Kaleu

 

[Koinz]

...the XT 12 has won the most tests in different german motorcicle-magazins.....and in the absolut "best list" for the 50.000 KM test the XT takes 3rd place ....the BMW 1200 GS takes 20th place ....... ::003:: ::024:: ::024::

Questions? ::015::



Kaleu

This bike is better than I thought.

 

[Rasher]

Rasher, I am by no means bashing the BMW, but do you think your thoughts are the same as others currently riding BMW's?

Very much an individual thing, BMW do have fantastic brand loyalty, many owners are (In my opinion) very blinkered and will accept extortionate labour rates and terrible reliability issues, you come across many owners who have had several major failures on a bike and they seem happy to put up with this, which is probably why BMW have not improved the reliability and build quality - why would they when they sell tens of thousands each year despite such issues?

I have no brand loyalty, I think the Yamaha restriction is a joke, and it is not 10% (maybe at peak) but in some gears at low-mid rpm (i.e. where you spend most of your time) it is massively restricted, this will bug the hell out of me, especially in the mountains where you spend a lot of time in 1st-3rd gear and under 5000rpm. I am also a bit dissapointed with luggage capacity and the slow turning - did they not bother to compare the bike they were designing to the dominant force in the sector?

The BMW works extremely well, and I suppose if your lucky enough to get a good one that does not eat the final drives, conk out with electrical gremlins and throw valves into the cylinder bores then you are onto a real winner, in reality most are probably OK but relatively speaking they carry a much higher risk of breakdown / huge expense than the Yamaha (or a Honda / Kawasaki / Suzuki)

People like me who bought a BMW expecting it's low tech approach and years of refinement to equal above average reliability quickly get depressed when the bikes break down, or you discover the amount of common (and re-occuring) faults that BMW seem unable / unwilling to rectify.

I am probably in the minority in really wanting to ditch BMW - not the GS as a bike, it is great and every bit as good as the Yamaha, they are both excellent bikes with pro's and con's and it is great to have such choice but I can see a Yamaha staying in my garage for years and hitting 50,60,70k with no problems, whereas the BMW will be eating final drives having electrical failures and if I am really unlucky chuck a valve - and at BMW workshop rates this could be vast amounts of money.

I have never once worried about breaking down with a Jap bike, even ten year old machines or bikes with over 50k on the clock, I feel lucky every time I arrive somewhere on the BMW, and concerned every time I set off on a journey, but as I said most BMW owners don't feel the same way and are happy as long as the BMW assist truck turns up whenever the bike breaks down.

 

[GrahamD]

...but as I said most BMW owners don't feel the same way and are happy as long as the BMW assist truck turns up whenever the bike breaks down.

It reminds me of a certain software company, lot's of talk points about how good it is because of XYZ, When the XYZ is often all about how inadequate certain things were in the first place.

It's obviously more about something other than the machine. Some of it will be exactly the same as it is with many HD owners.

Maybe it's just about bragging that money is no object, rather than making a sensible decision.

Many BMW's last a long time with no faults, but many don't as well.

A lot of it probably goes back a long way, as with HD, about one day being able to afford one of the bikes they lusted after as a young lad, a bit of nostalgia, a bit of a lack of research, because that might just get in the way of the dream, and a dose of group think.

Whatever, there are a lot of choices out there at the moment and that is a good thing. I think all of them make more sense than the latest 200HP (occasionally in 5th gear when the temperatures are hot enough) crotch rockets.

I think a big chunk of the sales figures from those were from insurance write offs. If you do a lot of track work, then fine. If you live right next to a really good road, fair enough. But for any serious work, the ADV bike, whatever your personal definitions/requirements, whether that me the 650cc mule or the 1200cc giant, they make lot's more sense.

 

[Mick]

People like me who bought a BMW expecting it's low tech approach and years of refinement to equal above average reliability quickly get depressed when the bikes break down, or you discover the amount of common (and re-occuring) faults that BMW seem unable / unwilling to rectify.

And me!
I bought my 2008 GS expecting a reliable bike that would hold its value despite the high Ks that I planned to do on the bike.
I was wrong on both counts. I think in their quest for horsepower and light weight BMW have compromised the reliability of the GS.

The electrical gremlins (corrosion actually due to inadequate sealing) hit the fuel pump controller at about 50K Km, left me stranded waiting for a part.
Then the new design (lightweight) driveshaft failed with the front universal joint disintergrating and chewing up the final drive housing. Lucky it did not lock up the back whel when it let go. This happened at about 70K Km. The driveshaft had to come from Germany using extortionist practices.

Then, after the half asleep dude in the white ute turned in front of me and wrote the thing off with 85K on it, the rude awakening of how the high Ks had knocked around the market value of the bike became apparent. It appears that the used bike buying public are onto the reliability shortcomings of the 12GS. The 1150 was heavier and had less power for good reason. You cannot give away a high mileage 12GS.

Well fast forward to last Tuesday and the body has mostly healed and the insurance payout is sorted, I picked up the Super Tenere. It feels a lot like the GS, but better, more solid, more comfortable, better handling, and riding it is a somehow calmer and more serene experience. The first service was completed yesterday. And it has just had its first wash. It is a bit too early to call on the reliability front although fist indications are very positive.

With hindsight on the GS owning experience a few negative aspects come to mind:
BMW appears to have compromised the reliability of the model by using it to compete in the numbers game (KW/KG). After all it is still an aircooled motor with the limitations that brings when trying to extract modern performance levels.
The potential for serious consequences with the failure of the front universal joint is particularly concerning. The service schedule makes no mention of maintaining, or even inspecting the driveshaft universal joints. This component has been designed to last the service life of the bike, which looks to be well short of 100K Km. The potential consequences of a front universal joint failure at speed is a fatality, I was lucky.

Yes, I reckon BMW GS's are over priced and over rated. Supported by outstanding marketing and substandard engineering.
Yamaha is the opposite with exceptional Engineering and terrible Marketing.

 

[Sartene]

Hi Mick,

it is not easy to write it better. ::012::

Yamaha: Bikes = great / Marketing.....Disaster!!

BMW: Bikes...ok......Marketing.......perfect!.

Thats the problem, why mom Yam did not sell as much bikes as they could......they never herad to the heartbeat of their owner.

In 1996 mom Yam stopped to produce the Super Ténéré 750.......i think, we all know why.

Many years happend nothing at mom Yam. The Big enduros became more and more interessting......mom Yam awoke.....after all the Dakar victory´s, it was a miracle, why mom Yam didi not build ST like my old 750er Lady.......i am sure, they had the potential, to create perfcet desert racer...look at KTM. You go to your dealer, buy an KTMand you can start at the Dakar........and KTM sells much more enduros.....

In the beginning of the 2000th mom Yam ask us, the german Ténéré forum, what do we think about an new Ténéré.....? They visited us at our yearly meeting and we have an conference with aprox. 20 ST riders.
We told them, what we want to ride.....mom Yam listend to us, but they did not understand, what we said.....and now, we got this very big baby. OK. it seems, that the new ST ist very good, but the ST is not the bike, we wanted........and we monthly sold ST are rare...
And mom Yam made a bad mistake......they want to play in a special league....the BMW GS league......it doesnt work and it will not work.....sorry. Each month BMW sells much more GS than ST......and if you buy a GS, you can buy much, much more GS stuff......look at mom Yam.......6 Parts.........

I love my very big lady.....but 60 KG less would be much better...

Have a nice day.

Kaleu

 

[hANNAbONE]

haven't put any real miles on my scoot since last November -- but I rode the wheels off of it in southern Missouri @ the Falling Leaf Rally (*yup - a BMW rally*). I had no trouble at all with any of the restrictions in the lower gears.
I also, have not done the TB synch yet nor any mod's to the CO stuff.

I am happy and really quite delighted with the stock OEM product.

Like I said - I ride the wheels off of the thing and love LOVE to go fast and wring the loud grip and corner hot...it tracks and holds my line like its an after thought.

YMMV

 

[hANNAbONE]

@ Rasher --

Try leaving it in a higher RPM range...not 5000 - but 6-7000...it loves singing its song in that range and will out corner about anything I've come across.

She's got a lot to give - wring it out a little and experiment.