Stupid question of the day: How do YOU shift?

[default]

Ive been riding for almost 2 decades now, and I am self taught in everything bike related. I've been recently watching a bunch of different riding videos, as I enjoy seeing other bikes in action, and I've noticed a lot of clutchless up shifts (mostly with sport bikes) and a weird throttle action during downshifts.

I do neither, altho the past few days I've been playing with the clutchless upshifts. Bike doesnt like em in the first couple a gears but the higher gears are fine.




Also, while Im on the topic, what RPMs are you guys up shifting at (clutched or otherwise)? My bike has rarely seen 5k.

 

[ATMoto]

I do clutchless upshifts more often with a pillion. It's just a bit smoother. I also revmatch on the downshift, for pretty much the same reason. I like the sound on the downshift, and the speed/smoothness of the upshift.


I generally shift up around 3500ish. But I've played hooligan on a few occasions as well.

 

[barkingllizard]

My bike has rarely seen 5k.

there is a whole lot a bike past 5k,
as always the Super Tenere is far more capable than most who ride it...
especially me, which is why it is such a blast to ride.....

[as for 'power shifting', I try to avoid it]

 

[vwboomer]

clutch into 2nd, then normally without the clutch. Downshifts vary. I started doing it mostly on dirtbikes a few years back, but now it's all bikes.
As for shift points, general tooling around is maybe 5k. The bike just invites it. With the Streetfighter I just sold, or my 530 in supermoto trim, the hooligan is much harder to suppress ::024::

 

[ace50]

Those techniques just take a little practice. I clutch-less up-shift fairly often, not 1st to 2nd though.
The Tenere is not a high revving bike like a super sport and usually not ridden as hard either. Rev matching takes a little more practice to get smooth at, but a lot of bikes have slipper clutches which help that out.
I'll just release the clutch out slowly when riding hard and downshifting to allow the motor to catch-up. That's basically doing what a slipper clutch does. ::26::

 

[klunsford]

As Ace50 said, it takes a lot of practice to do it right. If you don't do it right, you can cause some major damage over time. I genuinely use the clutch but have upshifted without my clutch a few times, used to do it a lot riding track bikes. practice makes perfect if you can keep from destroying things in the drivetrain.

 

[Dogdaze]

Up shift from 3rd onwards without a clutch, not all the time, downshift using the clutch but rev up to match engine speed. I had a VZ1600 that I could shift up and down without a clutch from 1st gear, what a great bike that was.

 

[jbrown]

I've always used the clutch up or down shifting for the last 45 years (except for that time years ago getting home with a broken clutch cable), and I try to match engine rpm on downshifts.
For me, shift points are decided by how low my fuel level is, and how fast the traffic is going when I'm merging on to the freeway.

 

[EricV]

I use the clutch normally. I rev match down shifts. I know how to shift w/o the clutch, but see no purpose to doing it when the clutch works.

 

[Cycledude]

I always use clutch when downshifting, often up shift 5-6 clutch less , cluchtless up shifts seem even smoother than using the clutch.

 

[EricV]

cluchtless up shifts seem even smoother than using the clutch.

Not picking on any one person, but have seen this comment a few times. Practice, practice, practice. Your shifts with clutch can and should be just as smooth as w/o clutch is for you.

Slipper Clutch = Lazy man's tool. There is a purpose on a race bike, but on the street, it just tends to make people not spend the effort to learn to down shift smoothly, imho. Not saying it isn't a nice piece of kit, or that any of us execute a perfect downshift 100% of the time. Just doesn't have any appeal to me. Sort of like bling, a way to separate someone from their cash.

 

[ace50]

Many sport bikes along with Versys 1K, Yam Raider (others?) have slippers. Big engines with big torque, it comes in handy. I've skidded the rear wheel on bigger v-twins letting the clutch out quickly. Try that in a corner.
Just another reason I'd like to have a Versys 1K. Slippers give you a light pull on the clutch too. ::001::

 

[ATMoto]

Not picking on any one person, but have seen this comment a few times. Practice, practice, practice. Your shifts with clutch can and should be just as smooth as w/o clutch is for you.

I disagree. No matter how good you are, a bump in the road can/will cause you to either let out too soon, or not soon enough, or over/under rev on a shift. By not disengaging the clutch, you remove that possibility. Sure, some people might struggle, heck, I have struggled when the load changes like adding a different pillion, or fully loaded before getting comfortable with the change in weight when using the clutch to upshift. That's why clutch-less shifting is so great! It takes very little practice to master, and there is no downside.

Rev-matching the downshift does take practice. Just don't ride the clutch to let it self-match. I know moto clutches are much more durable then auto clutches, but riding the clutch should always be avoided. Bottom line though... ::021::

 

[Boondocker]

I thought I knew how to shift because I could successfully and with reasonable smoothness, transition between gears in either direction. I have improved my up-shifting smoothness by applying the technique described in this article titled "Choking in the Clutch" by David L. Hough in the Proficient Motorcycling column of Motorcycle Consumer News, February 2016 edition. The article is a very thorough treatise on the OP's question.

I used to fully engage the clutch and deliberately nudge the shift lever up while "blipping" the throttle to help smooth the transition. This is a very reliable method, but not the smoothest. To cut to the chase, I now try to preload the lever and use less than 1/2 clutch engagement with a smaller and quicker throttle blip. Shifts are quicker and smoother without requiring the precision of going clutchless. It's still a work in progress to learn new shifting habits, but rewarding to do so.

 

[ace50]

Just don't ride the clutch to let it self-match. I know moto clutches are much more durable then auto clutches, but riding the clutch should always be avoided. Bottom line though... ::021::

I disagree..............How do you think a slipper clutch works???
Most riding classes riding tell you to learn how to 'ride the clutch' (let it slip) to control slow speed maneuvering and other techniques.
A wet clutch is designed to slip and last.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Also, while Im on the topic, what RPMs are you guys up shifting at (clutched or otherwise)? My bike has rarely seen 5k.

Completely depended on what is happening at the time. Casual riding with no urgency, probably around 5000 to 5500. Out to enjoy myself and exercise the wrist, red line works just fine and is within the normal envelope for the bike.

One of my mild complaints about the 14+ bike is it's hard to see where red line begins on the digital tach. Minor annoyance that I can work around.

 

[ATMoto]

I disagree..............How do you think a slipper clutch works???
Most riding classes riding tell you to learn how to 'ride the clutch' (let it slip) to control slow speed maneuvering and other techniques.
A wet clutch is designed to slip and last.

Riding the clutch to get the bike moving at slow speeds is different then slowly letting out the clutch to allow the rear wheel to force the engine into a higher RPM without using the throttle to match. A slipper is to help stop the rear tire from locking up, that's all. It should still be used with rev matching.

Like I said, moto clutches are more durable, but it's still a wear item. You don't ride around holding the brake lever because riding the brakes is unnecessary wear on the pads (ignoring the heat issue). Ultimately, it doesn't matter. The difference between beating the hell out of your clutch and babying it is probably pretty negligible. I would be surprised if there was a 20k mile difference in clutch life.

 

[ace50]

I guarantee, you slip the clutch some with every gear change. Rev matching gets you close, the clutch slip gets you there.
Who wants to watch the tack all the time, and with a snatchy F.I. bike? You get close, that's all.

A slipper clutch is added (and more expensive) technology that's definitely worth it, and who wouldn't want a lighter clutch pull?

::001:: ::26:: ::001::

 

[Dogdaze]

I agree about the slipper clutch, as bikes become ever more powerful and the riders downshift more than one gear at a time the probability of locking up the rear wheel is high, that's when a slipper clutch comes in handy, only wish my big V Twin cruisers had them when I was riding those beasts, coming into a wet roundabout on a busy road was always a clencher moment and I've had my share of lock ups. I think most bikes over a certain cc have them now not as a shift aid, more in the ABS, TC camp.

 

[ace50]

I agree about the slipper clutch, as bikes become ever more powerful and the riders downshift more than one gear at a time the probability of locking up the rear wheel is high, that's when a slipper clutch comes in handy, only wish my big V Twin cruisers had them when I was riding those beasts, coming into a wet roundabout on a busy road was always a clencher moment and I've had my share of lock ups. I think most bikes over a certain cc have them now not as a shift aid, more in the ABS, TC camp.

That's why I wouldn't mind having a Yam Raider! 1900cc with a slipper clutch. Awesome. ::26::