Spring/Shock HELP...

[TwoLukes]

Hey Fellow riders, well, here is the story. Last summer I took a long ride from Las Vegas to Key West to DC to the Ark Rally and home. In those travels, I stopped by to see Jaxon and he said I was waaaayyy overweighted for the stock spring. I mailed some stuff home ;-) and continued the ride, but picked up a "friend" in Tampa for the Key West adventure. The bike bottomed out (there is a better story here, but that's for the next rally). Talking to most of you at the rally, I decided to up the OEM spring. The dealership here ordered a 1,200 pound (my decision) spring and collars from a company in LA. The springs were the exact same size. I had the stronger spring put on and now I can barely touch my toes. It's so uncomfortable that I'm almost afraid to ride my baby. I am 5'10" tall with a 30 inch inseam and bought the bike used with a lowering links kit already installed. The bike does settle a little when I put my 170 pounds on it, and I'm sure it will do better when I load it down for the AK trip next summer, but I ride it mostly with the Jesse's empty. I guess I could put sand bags in the boxes but there has to be a smarter way.

Now I turn to my S-10 brain-trust out there. Can they cut the spring shorter (the bike is about 1 1/2 to 2 inches higher now)? Should I go to an Olin system? or will I have the same problem? I have too much invested to go to the 2014 ES, nor do I know if that solves the heavy weight problem when I'm all loaded for a big trip? Everything else on the bike is in great working order. . . now IF I could just touch the ground ;-)

Any ideas on how to adjust the height of the bike with this spring would be my first option ($$$). . . And If you all suggest I go to a different shock system, then reading the different threads, I would lean towards an Olin system, unless you gents and ladies suggest better. . . Thanks early for you sage wisdom . . . Luke

 

[Ramseybella]

I am a big Hombre as well and I find the OEM works almost good for what I do and travel with and that is a lot of stuff, I would say a round 385 pounds with myself on board.
What did you have the shock weight sprung for and how much do you top off at? I am around 315 pounds 6'3".
If you decide to go aftermarket I would be interested in your old OEM shock.

OOps!
170 I missed that, yes I would agree you have way to much spring going on.
I am surprised the old spring didn't work for you..

 

[djm_ct]

I am no expert in this matter, but I read the forum avidly. I have heard it said that the stock spring is in the six hundred something lb. range.

Many have been advised to go to a heavier spring. Usually however, that advice is to go so an 800 or 850 lb. spring, and the rider receiving that advice are NFL linebacker sized guys.
You chose to go with a 1200 lb spring and you weigh 170 lbs.. flyweight compared to many S10 riders.
I think you may have overcompensated a bit.

I'm sure some of the experts will chime in here and correct me if I'm mistaken, but my suggestion would be to try and return that M1 Abrams spring and try to get one a little less beefy.

I go about 225 and have taken many long trips with a passenger (in the 125 lb range) along with scads of gear, and I haven't had a problem with the stock spring, as long as I dialed the suspension settings to firm. The ride wasn't perfect, but no bottoming or wallowing. I do have it on my list to upgrade the suspension, but it's not an absolute necessity.

 

[tubebender]

I'm no expert either, and I have followed the advice of others and confirmed it with my own measurement and testing.

You are way over-sprung. You could probably get away with the a 750 lb. spring. (The stock spring is not as specified in the manuals) An 800 lb if you plan on carrying a load all the time.

If the spring you have is the stock length, cutting it is not going to help. You can buy a slightly shorter Eibach spring for about $80 and I think Tabasco makes the spacer you would need.

If you want to spend the money on a premium shock, then by all means go for it. It does make a difference.

There are a bunch of related threads at the bottom of the page with more information.

 

[escapefjrtist]

According to Race Tech, the stock spring is 700 pounds / inch which is in the range of numbers previously posted.

At 170 pounds you're waaaaay over-sprung with that monster you have on now. Even full loaded with bags and lots of gear (w/o pillion), I'd guess a 800 - 850 would get proper sag numbers at reasonable preload levels.

FWIW, I'm running a Penske with a 1K spring and 13mm preload for two-up (350# total) traveling with bags and trunk fully loaded. Ride is very stiff with just rider, so I swap to a 900 with 10mm preload for me. Still a bit firm, but it's a fun ride in the twisties...

Just my $.02

--G

 

[snakebitten]

Hey 2-Lukes!

I ain't buying it.
You sure you got a 1200lb spring? Really really sure?

I've seen how you travel. You got the Beast outfitted like an F15 with every gizmo possible mounted on every possible mounting point. AND, you're crazy enough to "haul" the strangest cargo. (You DID ride into the recent Arkansas Rally carrying 3, THREE, pumpkins! Am I making this up? Lol

Having said all that, you can't weigh that much yourself. Not even soaking wet. You ain't John Wayne, if you know what I mean? :

If I had to guess, you shoulda been just fine in the 850ish spring rate. (consensus it seems)
Regardless, what you should do is the same thing with your rear shock as you have with the rest of your machine.......... just put a nice first class adjustable shock on there.
And let the experts configure the right setup.

Right now, if it really is a 1200, you're riding the first Super Tenere Hardtail!
Keep riding it like that, and your gonna get the urge for tattoos.

 

[UncaBuddha]

Snakebitten, first of all, the F15 is the most svelte and maneuverable jet in the history of mankind and doesn't have all the FAT hanging off like Lukes ST. Second of all, FAT trimming would be in order for Luke!!! Some body besides his little brother needs to tell him that has bike isn't his pickup truck, it needs to be able to turn and stop on a dime. ::001:: So he needs to stop carrying three pumpkins, 4 quarts of moonshine, etc. ::005:: And most of all, he needs to put eyes on his next pillion BEFORE his shows up to the pick up point!!! ::015:: Then he can park his bike and rent a CAR to haul all his goodies and his friend.

Maybe somebody can post a reply that has this avatar:
::006::
and you'll see what I'm talking about!!! ::015::

The most loving little brother in the world!
(the other Snake)

 

[TwoLukes]

Well, my goodness . . . All the advice is very helpful except for the two Snakes busting my huevos about trimming up and being careful of who I put on the back (I swear she weighted 90 lbs when I knew her 20 years ago. No way she could bottom out the bike . . . but I digress . . .) My dealership bought the spring from Race Tech in LA so maybe they will trade it out? I'll call and see and move down to the 750 range.

Bitten, I brought those pumkins to you and you treat me this way . . . And my brother Snake, FYYFF . . . Secret code. I might have to trim some of the FAT off your head!!! ;-)

Do you guys think if I go down my feet will touch again? I look silly with the training wheels on this big bike . . . Again, thanks for all the help

 

[RideDualSport.com]

I believe the problem is with the lowering link that was installed. The extra length of the lowering link applies additional leverage to the shock. The spring does not resist the additional leverage, thus the bike sags in the back. At 170 lbs, you should be fine with the stock shock and stock spring, but you need to replace the lowering link with the original Yamaha link.
Do not invest in an expensive aftermarket shock, that is not where the problem lies. I would revert the bike to the stock link and original spring. Then take the bike to a competent suspension tuner and have them adjust the suspension sag to your weight.

 

[EricV]

I'm 5'11" and have a 30" inseam. I'm running an 1100 lb spring, (Hyperpro), on the oem shock. I also run a Russell Day Long custom seat which puts me up another inch. The spring weight was determined by my rally load, which includes an extra 5 gal fuel cell and a gal of water, along with full panniers and my fat 260 lbs, (300 in gear), self.

I would tend to agree that you're over sprung. And that the lowering links are not helping. (what? You push the bike a lot?) My stock spring was measured at 40k miles as only 640 lbs or so, fwiw.

I often ride with one empty pannier, but the other is full of stuff that is always on the bike. 31L of tools, compressor, first aid, flares, extra gloves and visor, Rok straps, etc. And the fuel cell and water stay on the bike too, though the cell is often empty on local rides. Basically, you're not going to find a perfect match for heavily loaded and solo riding. I don't find this a problem myself, but some do.

Not knowing how you're loaded on normal riding, I'd probably go higher than 750# on the spring, but not 1200# unless you ride with a lot of crap and put lead in your panniers. And not to hurt your feelings, but ditch the lowering springs and suck it up! Putting a foot down is not such a big deal. If need be, slide forward and off to one side, (preferably the side the ground is coming up on). Watch out for holes when stopping.

 

[snakebitten]

Honestly, I don't know why he has lowering links either. Everybody knows 2-Lukes crashes standing up!

Am I lying? Remember, it's documented!

 

[TwoLukes]

RDS, great insight. . . I have the origional links and might have them put back on to check if it helps. My dealer is calling Race Tech to see if they will swap out the 1,200 pounder.

Eric V, thanks also for the inputs. I too have the Russell Day Long which raised me up. I carry about the same stuff in my left Jesse box, which is heaver than the OEM box.. You and RDS have suggested I go back to the origional links, and I might try that next . . . Can't hurt ;-) Eric, I'm planning a 1 day Death Valley to Shoshone (lunch), Tecopa Hot Springs and back over the holidays. You interested? or too far for a day trip?

Snakebitten - - - You always got to bring that little thing up, don't ya? Why I oughta . . . . One little run-in with a ditch, airborne, and landing in a big a** bush - - - Just once --- and I can't live it down!

Thanks to you ALL for your inputs. Merry Christmas . . .

 

[EricV]

TwoLukes - Not too far for a day ride. Just a matter of if I have the day off and if I get the bike back together. Haven't had time to take things apart and fix the wiring farkles that the dealer messed up. Batt is shakey too, so I need to address that. They let it go flat and now it's showing 'weak' at best and won't charge fully.

Hit me with a date and I can tell you if I have that day off.

 

[TwoLukes]

Eric, I haven't picked a date right now, but get that bike back together! It's not like you to have a broken beast laying around your place! PM me your phone number some time and I'll text you when I have the date picked.

To All, Timmy, at my Yamaha place, talked to the Race Tech guy in LA and he said they would swap out the spring. . . I thin I'm going to go with a 750 and lighten my oad a little. Did a Lake Mead ride (200 miles) around the lake and it chattered my backbone with that 1,200 pound beast under me. All of you are right! WAY too much spring. So thank you all for the help and sarcastic remarks . . . Love you guys . . . Luke

 

[Ironhand]

Did someone say F-15? My baby...

 

[dcstrom]

A note for those who might be considering Ohlins - I started out running pretty heavy on my RTW trip (a bit lighter now) and the stock shock failed after the first decently rough road in Baja. Was lucky enough to be close enough to San Diego to bounce my way back there, and also lucky to find a barely-used Ohlins with the heaviest spring already fitted. (Also lucky to be able to enlist Tubebenders help to fit it! There is a brand new stock shock sitting at his place if anyone's interested).

With the heaviest available (at the time - maybe they have a heavier one now?) Ohlins spring on, and the preload cranked right up, I was still a bit undersprung, and I didn't have time to search for or have made a heavier spring.

My point being, if you're looking at Ohlins to carry heavier loads, check that you can get the right spring for it.

 

[stutrump]

Wow..interesting. I always thought Ohlins were the mutts plums. Seems strange that even an Ohlins was struggling

 

[EricV]

Wow..interesting. I always thought Ohlins were the mutts plums. Seems strange that even an Ohlins was struggling

There are not really that many spring manufacturers. Eibach and HyperPro being the main two. Anything can be made, but what's commonly in stock is another story. I don't know what size spring the Ohlins takes, but I suspect if you have the time, getting what ever weight spring you need is no problem. I had to wait a short time for my 1100 lb spring to be sourced by the shop doing my shock and they made a custom spacer, (similar to what Jaxon offers), since the Yamaha spring is an odd size.

 

[tubebender]

I don't recall what spring he had on there at the time, but I figure if we added some more preload it would have improved the sag on the rear.
Yes, he did have a hydraulic preload adjuster, but we could have added some more static preload with the collar. At the time, I wasn't comfortable messing with someones brand new kit.
And, he did say he had a bit of weight on the bike.

 

[HHH]

There is a Company offering Öhlins with different springs with a posi clip to make a broad range as far as spring size goes.
Note the differences on the following picture, the bottom one is the regular one for the Ténéré, YA013.