Sportbike Convert: Need Tips for Riding Gravel

[HoebSTer]

Remember while standing, it isn't necessary to try and push or pull on the handlebars to get the bike to turn. Simply move your weight to one peg or the other to get the bike to tun while standing. If it is hard to understand this concept, head out to a straight road of any kind, stand up then lift one leg and feel where the bike goes, then set back down and lift the other leg and see the difference. This is a way to feel how your weight on a peg makes the bike do certain things. This pressure can also be done seating, but takes a bit more practice to feel the results.

 

[ceebus]

I was also a sportbike rider first before I picked up DS and dirt. In addition to the other great comments in this thread, I would add a few that stand out in my memory:

- Be loose on the bars. You're not going to like the front end dancing around, but death-gripping it only makes it worse. After a while, all the bouncing and sliding turns out to be part of the fun, but it's weird after searching for traction on the sporty bikes

- The front brake still has real stopping power in a straight line. I was (in hindsight) paranoid about losing the front, so I would never touch it when I first got off pavement. As mentioned above, you don't want to weight the front too much while turning a big bike, but it will slow you down if you gradually load it in a straight line (especially with ABS to save you).

- You will improve your skills dramatically on a small dirt bike. It's not necessary, but it greatly accelerates the learning curve, and it's a whole new type of fun!. Also, they crash better.

 

[houndman]

Stand & TCS Off for me as well for anything other than jeep trails when off-road!

But this big beast will give you quad-burn in a hurry when the going gets rough (especially at speed) and will show you how out-of-shape your are!

why tcs off except for jeep trails? I'm trying gather info here from those with more off road experience.

 

[martinh]

There is a lot of great info here on riding gravel roads. I am always in S and TCS2 on pavement and dirt roads. I have found with TCS2 when I hit gravel roads that have sharp 90 deg turns I find my self going in a little slow and then just hit the throttle a 1/4 the way in the turn. The rear tire will slide out a bit until the TC kicks in and the bike just feels glued in the slide. I lean on the tank a bit to put more weight on the front tire to keep it planted. This bike is just amazing on how it handles gravel. You just have to trust the bike it dose not handle like any other.

 

[stevepsd]

why tcs off except for jeep trails? I'm trying gather info here from those with more off road experience.

When I say jeep trails, I mean dirt roads or anything that is hard-packed dirt. Although if TCS is off, I leave it off. I like to be able to slide the rear tire when required.

 

[Glenn C]

why tcs off except for jeep trails? I'm trying gather info here from those with more off road experience.

OK, thought I would have my $0.02 worth...

Disclaimer: this advise is general in nature, please use common sense when experimenting!

I have come from 30-odd years of trail bikes, so I feel more at home on this bike on dirt that the tar! I am REALLY surprised at how well it handles various dirt surfaces.

To answer Houndman's question re TCS off - I use TS2 unless I'm on some really rough/up hill trail. The problem with the TCS and rough surfaces is that if the rear bounces around, the wheel spins, TCS activates and reduces power, you slow down and before you know it, you're in a very uncomfortable place :'( This is particularly so when trying to go up a rough up hill section.

I agree with most of what has already been said and I'll add a little more:
One principal used by dirt riders on lower traction surfaces is that power on is usually the right way out. While ever the power is on, the bike will naturally tend to straighten up and point forward. The converse is also true: back off and the rear will try to overtake the front. This is particularly noticeable in sand (I've a few stories there!).
Another principal that I use for dirt bikes and seems to translate to the S10 is when cornering, get your weight forward, look at where you want to go, control the throttle to deliver smooth power and don't worry about the rear, as the principal above will look after it. I think this has been mentioned previously. Slow up before entering the corner, smooth application of power through the corner and look at WHERE you want to go (DON"T look at the big rock in the middle of the track you are trying to avoid - you'll get it every time! still more stories).

Also as previously stated, when in doubt, stand up on the pegs. Experiment first, you'll be amazed at the difference it makes. My theory on this is that not only do you lower the effective centre of gravity, but you also add an extra set of suspension - you're legs. They help the bike recover from bumps and bounces etc.

Anyway, try out all the advise on here somewhere safe and I'm sure you'll have a ball.

Cheers
Glenn

 

[stevepsd]

OK, thought I would have my $0.02 worth...

Disclaimer: this advise is general in nature, please use common sense when experimenting!

I have come from 30-odd years of trail bikes, so I feel more at home on this bike on dirt that the tar! I am REALLY surprised at how well it handles various dirt surfaces.

To answer Houndman's question re TCS off - I use TS2 unless I'm on some really rough/up hill trail. The problem with the TCS and rough surfaces is that if the rear bounces around, the wheel spins, TCS activates and reduces power, you slow down and before you know it, you're in a very uncomfortable place :'( This is particularly so when trying to go up a rough up hill section.

I agree with most of what has already been said and I'll add a little more:
One principal used by dirt riders on lower traction surfaces is that power on is usually the right way out. While ever the power is on, the bike will naturally tend to straighten up and point forward. The converse is also true: back off and the rear will try to overtake the front. This is particularly noticeable in sand (I've a few stories there!).
Another principal that I use for dirt bikes and seems to translate to the S10 is when cornering, get your weight forward, look at where you want to go, control the throttle to deliver smooth power and don't worry about the rear, as the principal above will look after it. I think this has been mentioned previously. Slow up before entering the corner, smooth application of power through the corner and look at WHERE you want to go (DON"T look at the big rock in the middle of the track you are trying to avoid - you'll get it every time! still more stories).

Also as previously stated, when in doubt, stand up on the pegs. Experiment first, you'll be amazed at the difference it makes. My theory on this is that not only do you lower the effective centre of gravity, but you also add an extra set of suspension - you're legs. They help the bike recover from bumps and bounces etc.

Anyway, try out all the advise on here somewhere safe and I'm sure you'll have a ball.

Cheers
Glenn

::026::

 

[wantajustride]

Remember while standing, it isn't necessary to try and push or pull on the handlebars to get the bike to turn. Simply move your weight to one peg or the other to get the bike to tun while standing. If it is hard to understand this concept, head out to a straight road of any kind, stand up then lift one leg and feel where the bike goes, then set back down and lift the other leg and see the difference. This is a way to feel how your weight on a peg makes the bike do certain things. This pressure can also be done seating, but takes a bit more practice to feel the results.

+1
Great way to sum it up HoebSTer. The "Counter Steer" method didn't work on dirt for me either. It's almost impossible to steer the bike with the front tire on gravel, So I too "weight" the pegs and just a little body english the bike goes where I want it too.
The best thing that worked for me is ride dirt often, and look down the road a bit. Don't focus on the road directly ahead of the front tire.

WJR

 

[houndman]

Thanks for the info,my KTM 530 didn't have all these TC features , just power to the chain and stop and go. I would not myself take the Yami places I have been on the much lighter KTM. I was wondering about jeep trails because in the local San Bernardino mountains there are narly trails that are otherwise known as jeep trails. I would like to take a day trip through other trails in the mountains there and am planning to do so. But when I got stuck in a small creek (wet deep sand) I realized that perhaps I should shut off the TC, what a pain in the arse pulling that bike out backwards with the grab handles! Lucky I found some debris to stuff under the tire to get her out! Then I realized I should prolly not go these isolated places in the mountains alone! Anyway sounds like TC2 or off in the water crosssings or crappy ruddy uphill stuff

 

[Epping]

TC2 & S for me also. You mentioned the road surface was marbles on hard pack. This is the worst surface to experiment on. Especially with OEM front tyre. Any block tyre would be better on this surface. I have experienced just this same surface recently. A graded sandy clay surface would be ideal to try all that has been suggested. Standing definatley. You will not believe the difference it makes. Imagine yourself riding only the front wheel, lean forward, look well ahead. You'll be laying roosts and big slide in no time.

 

[RockyDS]

Came across this today:

How To Ride A Motorcycle Off Road

Google "Riding Techniques For Large Dual-Purpose Bikes" and you'll find the link to download the free booklet.

I haven't read it so I'm not endorsing it in any way. Might be worth a look though.

::26::

 

[eheal6520]

Here's the link, http://www.bestrestproducts.com/p-341-how-to-ride-off-road.aspx

I have read about half of it and there is a bunch of "Buy our stuff" in it, but it seems sound.

 

[imrubicon]

Here's the link, http://www.bestrestproducts.com/p-341-how-to-ride-off-road.aspx

I have read about half of it and there is a bunch of "Buy our stuff" in it, but it seems sound.

Most of it is pretty good and still takes practice but his air compressor seems good as I have the spots slime one and it works but its about 6 years old and Im worried it would fail when I need it . I have used it a few times and it did beat the comp back the n. But every thing gets older so....

 

[donaldb]

Good advice on all above.

First i would definitely change the oem tyres, they are not good on dirt.

The stand up, and steer with your feet has already been drilled.

Always look where you want to go, if you see a rock, acknowledge it, look past it. You will always ride over what you look at. (try explaining to the rider in front of you that, dropped his sunglasses, why you drove over them)

Mud, this is another that can be overwhelming, and a big confidence killer. Varies by condition, slopes and direction you need to head. I have found best is to stand, and shift weight around, keep small power on back, avoid heavy breaking, as both wheels can lock up causing you to lose everything (back to the face brake system). Turn by lean, steering only works when really slow. tcs off or 2, 1 causes problems.

Ruts: try stay out of them, but don't concentrate on that, keep eyes looking at where you want to go. These can be nerve racking in early stages. If you slip into a deep rut, and not confident to power out, look at where it will take you and if there is not a shallow spot to escape with. If it ends on a cliff, stop and work a way out, you will just get more nervous till its too late. tcs, you are not going to slip a tyre with so much ground wrapped around it, but I use 2. Have had a situation where my back tyre slipped into a rut, and when i gassed it to get it out, tcs came in and it stayed in the rut, was in 2, so I looked ahead, saw rut had nice escape path so dropped the front in, only to find ground was higher than the foot peg and landed up standing on ground, pannier box hit leg, broke bone.

Experience is the key, the small off roader that was mentioned would be good school fees, and a damn fun school it will be.

My experience comes from my racing enduro days, still have my wr250 and still love it.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Remarkable how much good and non-contentious information in this thread. Nice to see.

It was briefly mentioned earlier, but I'll add a little. Get comfortable spinning the rear tire. Straight line first, then gradually get comfortable letting it slide out from side to side. Do it for longer and longer periods of time until you're comfortable with power slides. In turns with deep gravel I find if I power slide around the corner it is a more secure and comfortable feeling than the wobble of the corner without a slide. I can't explain the physics of why it works, but I know I'm much happier sliding around a gravel corner than just riding around it.

Probably not a good thing to try until you get very comfortable with a spinning rear tire.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Yesterday I did 29 km of loose fresh "ball-bearing" gravel.. The locals I spoke to don't take their trucks down that road. I was frantically trying to remember what I read on this thread, as I have ZERO off road experince (less the last 6 weeks with Big Blue, aka Tetonka). What I quickly realised is that this bike is smarter than me. It adjusts before I can. Given that I had a full camping load and I tip the scales at 230 lbs, and have no experience, I did not stand - I do not yet have the confidnce. I remembered that available power was the key, and so kept her at 4000 rpm - which in 2nd gear is 60 kmh. I reasoned that coming off the bike at 60 kmh would leave me and the bike bruised, but coming off at 70 or 80 would leave one or both of us broken. Every 5 minutes or so, I would have to go to third and pick up speed to bring the engine temp down, but other than that, the bike sailed through it, and I had a big scotch at the end of the day.

Most off this refutes the accepted wisdom from the experienced hands, but it seemed to work for me...

Next up for me - buy an old two stroker and figure out how to actually do this!

 

[Dingo]

Next up for me - buy an old two stroker and figure out how to actually do this!

A 2-stroker may not be the best bike to learn dirt skills on, simply because they like to live at WOT with a fairly sharp powerband.

No shame in learning on an old, light weight 4-stroker. In fact, as a kid, the best riding I use to do was blasting away on trials on a Honda XR-80 - far more managable and enjoyable than a YZ80, KX80 or CR80 back in the day.

Hell, I would beat the crap out of my XR ... very forgiving machines ...

Enjoy!

 

[cosmic]

Just an observation on TC, of my own.
Over here in Croatia, we dont have that much plain gravel roads, except these rocky "highways" to get to the windmills, a those a pretty steep too.
As i said, gravel roads where i live, are mostly small-medium size loose rock mixed with some steep ascents.
I too started my off road journey with the big S10, and i qiuckly realized that TC1&TC2 are not going to work with these uphills. Few times i was left there all alone, fighting with that big bike, trying to go back with no possibility to turn around, and all because of that gizmo. And i tell you, it is not nice to do that while your front brake can't cope with the weight of the bike, sliding backwards, and you have to use your right foot to brake. In worst case i had to stall the engine to use the clutch in order to go back for 200 meters, in a safe way.
I learned it the hard way,i suppose, that TC has no place on any serious off road trail.
That said, I like the TC2 and that careless feeling that it gives trashing the beast around, or when i encouter some slippery grass,but i aint stopping any more to switch it off.


That blessed switch should be redisigned in the way we can use it at any speed. Instead of having those power modes at hand, it should be vice versa.





©

 

[jajpko]

Just an observation on TC, of my own.
Over here in Croatia, we dont have that much plain gravel roads, except these rocky "highways" to get to the windmills, a those a pretty steep too.
As i said, gravel roads where i live, are mostly small-medium size loose rock mixed with some steep ascents.
I too started my off road journey with the big S10, and i qiuckly realized that TC1&TC2 are not going to work with these uphills. Few times i was left there all alone, fighting with that big bike, trying to go back with no possibility to turn around, and all because of that gizmo. And i tell you, it is not nice to do that while your front brake can't cope with the weight of the bike, sliding backwards, and you have to use your right foot to brake. In worst case i had to stall the engine to use the clutch in order to go back for 200 meters, in a safe way.
I learned it the hard way,i suppose, that TC has no place on any serious off road trail.
That said, I like the TC2 and that careless feeling that it gives trashing the beast around, or when i encouter some slippery grass,but i aint stopping any more to switch it off.


That blessed switch should be redisigned in the way we can use it at any speed. Instead of having those power modes at hand, it should be vice versa.





©

I would be real happy if the bike would revert to TC2 instead of TC1. I don't see why the people writing the flash program for the ECU can't change this feature.