Sena SMH-10R

[Travex]

Sorry you're having trouble.

How are they "backing away from support"? Are they not refunding your money?

- Mark

Backing away insofar as not offering any advice or recommendations for the removal of the control unit with the 3M compound which was recommended and emphatically endorsed by their own largest retailer. It was stated that liability is a concern for them and what their retailers do is no concern of theirs. Further communications with the initiate contact were discontinued and I was summarily postured in the return process. I would argue that a distracting, malfunctioning audio device would be the greater concern. According to 3M, there will likely be a "cloudy or milky" appearance in it's wake. Not being a chemist I was unaware, nor was I made aware of this possibility when making my purchase. Caveat emptor.

Now, with respect to Sena's response: I cannot fault them whatsoever for having taken whatever time was required to find a solution with the unit in my possession. Their commitment to troubleshooting and customer satisfaction seemed about as good as could be expected. That said, I have to agree with Checkswrecks in his assessment of Sena when saying "I get the feeling that Sena is very small and swimming hard to do what they do. They are doing what they say and have a good product, but their engineering and support are limited by their reality."

Within reason, I'll give most anyone the opportunity to make good. This being no exception, I'll proceed with the warranty return of the control module only and hopefully be able to write this off to a lemon. Simple. Problem solved hopefully. I will however, continue to take exception wit the fact that they've consciously distanced themselves from any responsibility for their retailer's peddling of a product that is not conducive to the application of their product.

As for removal of the control unit, I'll use a heat gun and some monofilament with isopropyl alcohol for a hopefully effective cleanup. Having experienced failure in the beginning, the next mounting will obviously be done without the 3M product and velcro will be used to more easily accommodate any future problems.

With so many happy users of the SMH10, I'm going to proceed with the notion that this model, although defective, will be replaced and the problem soon forgotten.

 

[Travex]

I'm not sure if mounting the battery on the back of the helmet is the only way to mount it, but if history follows itself, my pillion would SMOKE that thing with her helmet on any sort of above average brake.

Wonder how resilient towards impact that bugger is? Or better yet, how resilient the mount is...

That was my initial concern also. As the battery module is relatively small I had thought I might be able to conceal it within the shell but soon learned that it was just a tad too thick to be considered safe for impact. That aside, it's actually quite unobtrusive in the rear. Velcro is a must here as if/when the battery needs replacement it would be a simple swap-out. Their micro-velcro provides a positive, secure mount.

It does have a highly reflective finish touting the Sena name. For me, I prefer things a bit more nondescript and will address that high visibility accordingly.

 

[markjenn]

Backing away insofar as not offering any advice or recommendations for the removal of the control unit with the 3M compound which was recommended and emphatically endorsed by their own largest retailer. It was stated that liability is a concern for them and what their retailers do is no concern of theirs. Further communications with the initiate contact were discontinued and I was summarily postured in the return process. I would argue that a distracting, malfunctioning audio device would be the greater concern. According to 3M, there will likely be a "cloudy or milky" appearance in it's wake. Not being a chemist I was unaware, nor was I made aware of this possibility when making my purchase. Caveat emptor.

Are you a lawyer? If you're talking to Sena in this tone, I can see why they're backing away.

Sounds like you want some kind of warranty that they'll fix/replace your helmet if it leaves a blemish. Maybe they should have warned you of the obvious, but it seems to me that you can expect that when you use glue to attach an accessory to a helmet, that there is some risk you'll leave a blemish afterwards.

Good luck getting it off regardless.

- Mark

 

[Travex]

Lawyer? How dare you Sir! I'm afraid honesty renders that impossible. Sans pretension, I've been retired since 40 from interpersonal communications.

My approach was open and cordial... Clearly representing that my only interest is in finding a solution. Nothing more. As you rightly noted, perhaps verbosity could be misconstrued as offensive... Which is why I make the effort to never appear that small. It was also response in kind to the level of writing coming from them.

As for the blemish or possible damage to the new $600.00 lid... Yeah, I'm not pleased with that. The 3M product is not an adhesive or glue, but a pre-treatment that is used as a preparatory surface treatment prior to affixing the adhesive mounting pad that came with the unit. It was represented as non-marring and inert. My fault is in not having researched it prior to use. The retailer however should consider the benefits to be gained from the addition of a small add-on sale to that of a potentially displeased customer.

Do you also use an SMH10R? If so, what has your experience been and what mounting method did you opt for?

I appreciate your good wishes.

 

[markjenn]

Do you also use an SMH10R? If so, what has your experience been and what mounting method did you opt for?

No, still on the fence. I'm sorta waiting now to see what Bell does with a full-face helmet integration of the SMH-10 (non-R - I don't want a aux battery pack) similar to what they've done with the Mag 9. To some extent because of the type of issues you're having, I'm still waiting for someone to really do a completely functional, gitch-free, and fully integrated helmet/radio solution.

What is the "bonding agent" that they recommended? Sena's instructions say nothing about doing anything other than use a "moistened towel" to prepare the surface, so what was the reason you decided to go beyond this? If they truly represented to you that you needed to use this special agent and said nothing about the risks involved, I agree, you've got a gripe. Whether it rises to the level of demanding that they buy you a new helmet is another question though.

And I take it you haven't removed the 10R yet? If so, you may be worrying about nothing. To some extent, helmets are a wear item, both functionally and cosmetically, so worrying excessively about a minor blemish seems a little overboard to me.

- Mark

 

[Travex]

Full integration sure would be nice.

I threw out the package from the 3M stuff as it was a one-time use saturated pad. The name escapes me at the moment but I'll post it shortly. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my stating that it was Sena's retailer, not Sena themselves that recommended the 3M product. Their instructions were to clean the helmet with a mild soap and water solution, then clean the attachment site with an alcohol prep pad... Let dry, then use the 3M pad. They were near-insistent about the use of these products and I was given their assurance as their status as "Sena's #1 retailer" that this was the proper fixation process.

I've not made or inferred that replacement of the helmet should be done and expect nothing of a compensatory nature... At least until I'm certain that my investment is not damaged. Cosmetics aside, if they're endorsing a compound that has an unintended consequence, it would also stand to reason that they may well be unaware of the potential damage to the integrity of the shell itself. But you're right... this may be about nothing. I'll know better tomorrow when I get home and detach it. Funny if it's only a blemish, as this was my first foray into "really" nice helmets. I've been content with RF's, Hornet DS's, and moto helmets all my riding life. It was this one that made me buy my first first lined helmet bag to accompany my commitment to not making lids ugly in short order.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Travex]

Was able to address the removal of the control module today. It went well. I began by taping a cardboard perimeter around the module to isolate unneeded areas of the helmet from receiving excess heat from a hot blowdryer being used somewhat closely. Heat was applied evenly around it for about 3-4 minutes. I then used a length of fishing line with a sawing motion to work through the warmed adhesive... Took about a minute. My daughter slowly peeled the module away from the helmet as I continued sawing. Once removed, there was a fair amount of thick, gooey adhesive remaining. I then used a variety of adhesive tapes to lift as much of the remains as possible. The next 20 minutes was spent using 24 alcohol prep pads (keep in the toolbox) to reduce and remove the balance of goo. The finish isn't blemished that I can detect under shop lights. I'll take a look in daylight tomorrow but I think it's fine.

After cleaning the control module I boxed it up and will send it back tomorrow for repair/replacement at Sena's option. My greater concern here was obviously the helmet and I'm optimistic, if only based upon so many positive SMH10 user reviews, that my SMH10R will be up and running shortly. Weather's going to be breaking soon and this is the last check mark on my bike's winter list.

In any event, I'm looking forward to a new season and taking a ride around the Great Lakes. ::003::

 

[Travex]

Progress update:

I received notification from Sena on Tuesday indicating that they had received my control unit and will repair/replace it and send me notification of shipment and tracking. As it is brand new and obviously under warranty I became a bit impatient today and wrote them to ask of it's progress. I was told that they "just received it" and will be processing it sometime after their inventory... "Possibly up to a week".

Brand new product? Retarded replacement? In this day of rapid shipment and supreme technology it comes as a surprise to me that I could have ridden from coast to coast and back to get a replacement quicker than they can send one out. Yeah, I'm back to being disappointed by Sena.

 

[Karson]

You're right, in this day in age, companies like Amazon can flip you a return that quick. Sena does not look like Amazon.

This thread got hijacked long ago, so I think you're ::002::. Or, everyone just agrees that Sena took you through the ringer...

 

[Travex]

Thanks for your point. Hijacking, naa. Just going by the topic. Big on service over here and just relating my experience for others. I'll be glad to let it rest if its bothersome. Or, don't read it. ::003::

 

[KingChicken]

For the record, I appreciate the input about your dealings with SENA. I don't consider it a derail, since I was asking if anyone had used one before and since I'd only ever used Scala and Nolan communication products. Thanks for the feedback, it gives me something to read and possibly expect about a product I purchased sight unseen. And for the money we invest in all the little toys for our riding, I can't complain about being forewarned about possible hitches in my purchase.

Local bike shops are still in snowmobile mode so I haven't even had the chance to try mounting the R-unit on a new helmet. I have tried on a helmet with it mounted but that lying little sack of fur we call a groundhog seems to have been a little generous in his prediction of an early spring.

 

[creggur]

Sena SMH-10R

Only had one dealing with Sena under a warranty situation and it went fine. I called them with my issue (audio cutting in and out) I told them I'd cleaned the contacts and tried a different Egg and the issue remained. They shipped out a new clamp/microphone/speaker unit that day. The only hoop to jump through was emailing them my original receipt for purchase - no biggie.

 

[Travex]

Re: Sena SMH-10R

that lying little sack of fur we call a groundhog

Only had one dealing with Sena under a warranty situation and it went fine. I called them with my issue (audio cutting in and out) I told them I'd cleaned the contacts and tried a different Egg and the issue remained. They shipped out a new clamp/microphone/speaker unit that day. The only hoop to jump through was emailing them my original receipt for purchase - no biggie.

Good to learn of your smooth experience with them. Posts and reviews like yours are the reason my purchase was narrowed to Sena.

They contacted me Friday and said their testing has shown the unit to be operating near normally, and that they also experienced the cutouts (not the one's caused by GPS notification), and they're to be considered normal. According to them they made the same settings changes (reduction of bandwidth) they had me affect. Their testing was performed with an iPhone 4S and a Zumo 665, not the Zumo 350 I use. Apparently interrupted music is to be expected as the norm. This is not acceptable to me as those cutouts were very frequent and very annoying.

If I'm reading between the lines properly it seems I'm being told to expect less than optimal performance rather than what advertised. He told me they're shipping it back and I was given no tracking number as promised.

At any rate, the path is now clear. Return the unit and write this off to a lemon and poor service. I realize that my experience with them is not typical. Hopefully, others mileage will vary for the better.

 

[Travex]

The odyssey continues:

Had a good ride today in some milder weather. Wore the new Neotec with the Sena speakers and battery still mounted. As I approached the corner of my road I felt something on my ear... Has to be a speaker I thought. Unfortunately I was right. The left speaker's adhesive failed and it will no longer stay put. It's unable to remain affixed to it's velcro mount. Went home, changed helmets, then rode.

When I got back I detailed the speaker problem on the currently open service ticket. Their solution was to send the speaker back. Not an apology or a new speaker sent right out mind you... But send mine back for service. Should I do this I'd be looking at another 2-3 weeks of downtime with their product. This comedy/tragedy of errors is out of hand. If I didn't have a specific need for their product I'd be half tempted to stay in their service loop just to see how long a little thing like this could possibly be protracted.

This evening I received an email from Sena informing me that the control unit will arrive next Tuesday. Another week down. It's now been one and half months since my purchase.

And to think all they had to do was send a replacement kit out to begin with.

 

[Karson]

Man, I retract any misaligned comments/thoughts I had posted prior to yesterday & today's posts. If I were you, I'd get all the things back in your hands, like new from Sena, and put it up for sale on Advrider saying it will come with the original receipt/proof of purchase for the next owner to deal with.

Clean your hands of this turd...no matter how much they/Sena "polish" it, you're always going to think it's a P.O.S.

 

[Travex]

Right you are. Save for the point I wouldn't unload this on anyone. This one's obviously a lemon on a couple of levels. Oddly, I still tend to believe that my experience is isolated and not systemic. If it were a wider problem I wouldn't be the only one reporting such a negative experience... And honestly, I can't find another word as cross as mine on the topic.

My current thinking is in getting the unit back and boxing it up and letting Sena smooth it out with their retailer as they'd be taking receipt of a product after a 30 day policy, and issuing a full refund. Cheerfully.

It really is a shame. The product worked very well, in fact impressively so for a short period. In my eyes they still have a shrinking window into which they could fit a proper solution.

If it goes further south I'll post the actual dialogs for anyone following this to draw their own conclusions, as they're nice and tidy in a file. I feel both sides have represented themselves honestly, but for their part, I think they're just handling it very poorly and not learning from it. It's very curious that any manufacturer would rather go through all this rigamarole rather than simply replace the entire mess with a known quantity. Own the problem. Get past it. Done.

I appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks. ::003::

 

[markjenn]

Can't you just add a new piece of velcro (with fresh adhesive) to the speaker?

- Mark

 

[Travex]

That would normally be the approach, but I don't have on hand the higher quality micro-velcro they use. It was certainly an adhesive failure as that part simply doesn't come into contact with anything other than gravity and it's stored at room temp. Apparently I was deluded in thinking that they'd, I dunno... Send out a new speaker post-haste or at very least the velcro piece. Wrong once again. It's now no surprise that they consistently opt for the solution least expensive to them. I understand business, and this is bad business.

 

[markjenn]

That would normally be the approach, but I don't have on hand the higher quality micro-velcro they use. It was certainly an adhesive failure as that part simply doesn't come into contact with anything other than gravity and it's stored at room temp. Apparently I was deluded in thinking that they'd, I dunno... Send out a new speaker post-haste or at very least the velcro piece. Wrong once again. It's now no surprise that they consistently opt for the solution least expensive to them. I understand business, and this is bad business.

Higher-quality micro-velcro? Did you ask them for a new piece?

I think the problem here is that you simply have expectations for a motorcycle accessory that can't be met with the current state of the art. When you add something like an intercom system to a helmet, you often have to fiddle with things a bit to get it to work and to keep it working. You don't sound like you want to fiddle.

No personal experience, but perhaps the Schubert system would give you the higher level of integration you want.

- Mark

 

[Travex]

Thanks for your input Mark. I didn't ask for a new piece as it didn't seem that a simple re-application was the fix, and I was interested in the tack they would take given the deteriorating process. Giving them the opportunity to make good while attaining satisfaction is the idea. I don't feel this needs clarification, but perhaps a quick recap is in order. I bought a product, the product was/is defective, they're reluctant to handle it at the customer's convenience.

We all make mistakes and I believe it's important, if not essential to extend ourselves in offering the time required for others to make good on theirs.

As for fiddling; I think you'd be hard pressed to find an adventure rider that doesn't live for it. No exception here.

Today I received a positive note from them. Apparently the package they sent out Friday now contains replacement speakers, as they stated: "the adhesive on the speakers are not repairable and must be replaced. Thus, we just included the speakers in your return package to avoid going to do another RMA."

Other than the obvious time dilation I'm pleased with that. At least at this point it would seem they're making corrections and moving forward.

For anyone following this, please know that I have no desire in tarnishing a company's good standing. Moreover, I'm simply relating an experience for the benefit and interest of others as there's nothing to be gained personally. I have the time to do this. In the end we're talking about a few bucks. In my book that's only an inconvenience... Which makes this a matter of principle. One worthy of sharing.

I can't help but recall the sage words offered by Checkswrecks: "I get the feeling that Sena is very small and swimming hard to do what they do. They are doing what they say and have a good product, but their engineering and support are limited by their reality."