Running Twin batteries. Ideas

[Super10NJ]

Hey all, I was looking to run twin Shorai batteries on my S10. For back up and aux power when i'm not riding, camping, lights, charging, etc. I was looking to buy and mount a marine grade switch so I can use one or the other on the fly in case I happen to leave the ignition on, or whatever might arise. Just really a thought in my head at this point, but would love to hear thoughts and ideas from everyone here.

 

[limey]

Just pick up something like this.http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/noco-genius-gb40-boost-jump-starter-and-power-bank-1000-amp-0111907p.html#srp

 

[Checkswrecks]

As I've posted on numerous other threads I am NOT a fan of Li-Ion batteries in these bikes. I'd strongly recommend staying with an AGM and using a lithium as a back-up/booster/jumper.


If you want to save cash and not buy an OEM Yuasa, this is an improvement on the OEM for only $39.99:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/YTZ14S-230CCA-SLA-Battery-for-2011-Yamaha-Midnihgt-Star-XVC950A/193443900?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1082&adid=22222222227064984012&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=169234376094&wl4=pla-275276969160&wl5=9007798&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112561763&wl11=online&wl12=193443900&wl13=&veh=sem


Then add a Li-Ion jumper battery for only $39.98 more:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/12V-20000mAh-Multifunctional-Car-Jump-Starter-Power-Booster-Battery-Charger/526548698?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=7728&adid=22222222227072155398&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=182871016476&wl4=pla-287660545817&wl5=9007798&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=115059135&wl11=online&wl12=526548698&wl13=&veh=sem


You're done for $80 and the booster battery can be used as a cell phone or laptop charger. Just make sure to use a padded envelope or case to keep the Li-Ion battery from vibration.


fwiw - Slightly more than half of the in-flight fires in airplanes are caused by Li-Ion batteries being carried as spares.

 

[patrickg450]

go bob go

 

[Super10NJ]

Good info, thanks for taking the time. As it turns out even two much smaller Lithium batteries won't fit in the space allotted so that's out anyway. As much as I like the jumper pack idea it would be nice to have it all integrated as going on big trips there is always so much to think of, pack and carry. I'm thinking of putting an aux battery (that can be maintained by the alternator) possibly under my seat. Well aware of the hang-ups with lithium so maybe i'll run a small lead acid as the integrated backup... much like a Tesla.

 

[Sierra1]

The safest/reliable version of a second battery that I have seen was mounting it in a saddlebag. The idea was as you stated, dead battery back-up. The required wiring and relays made the saddlebag a permanent mount. IMO, it wasn't worth the cost/weight/inconvenience; I was out voted. I 3rd the motion for the separate jump-starter, with the proper precautions. And the jump-starter can be used everywhere, not just on the bike. BTW, the bike with the extra battery was crashed/totaled at the 2400mi mark, so I never got to find out the long term feasibility. Good luck.

 

[trainman]

Saw a good mod once that involved a second battery in the top box with led lead lights and USB plugs for camping, phone charging etc, and a solar panel mounted on top of the box to charge the cell. Some good PV panels around now and a full days ride in reasonable sunshine charged the cell apparently - maybe works better in the sunnier parts of the world!

 

[OX-34]

This thread seems strangely familiar..

Oh, yeah. It reminds me of the ones where a rider asks for info/advice/opinion about a plumbed auxiliary fuel cell, or perhaps a larger fuel tank and then most replies suggest carrying those Rotapax things or just a jerry can or posters ask "Why do you have to ride so far when 200 miles seems plenty" or even worse "I'd like one of those, but only if it looked good". This is an extreme performance mod, ok?

Rather than bleat on about jumper leads and jump starter packs (like the OP hasn't heard of them or something) howsabout opinions/advice/ or just plain ideas on how to do the twin batteries thing, not how to do something that is not twin batteries.

The main benefit of running twin batteries is the ability to seamlessly power more accessories either when on the move (driving light arrays, heated gear and seats etc) or when stopped ( air pumps, CPAP machines or work lights etc). Being able to isolate the starting battery so it DOES NOT GO FLAT is the target. This can be achieved through automotive off-the-shelf programmable isolators that can even come with twin voltmeters to give a guide about what is happening and automatically (or manually) switch to protect the starting battery at a pre-determined voltage.

One Aussie rider had a manual twin lithium battery set-up on his Tenere and ran the Iron Butt Rally with it - now that's an 11000mile road test. I have a twin battery set-up on my tiny alternator BMW F800GT. This can be done.

Any ideas on how to do it?

 

[dietDrThunder]

This thread seems strangely familiar..

Oh, yeah. It reminds me of the ones where a rider asks for info/advice/opinion about a plumbed auxiliary fuel cell, or perhaps a larger fuel tank and then most replies suggest carrying those Rotapax things or just a jerry can or posters ask "Why do you have to ride so far when 200 miles seems plenty" or even worse "I'd like one of those, but only if it looked good". This is an extreme performance mod, ok?

Rather than bleat on about jumper leads and jump starter packs (like the OP hasn't heard of them or something) howsabout opinions/advice/ or just plain ideas on how to do the twin batteries thing, not how to do something that is not twin batteries.

The main benefit of running twin batteries is the ability to seamlessly power more accessories either when on the move (driving light arrays, heated gear and seats etc) or when stopped ( air pumps, CPAP machines or work lights etc). Being able to isolate the starting battery so it DOES NOT GO FLAT is the target. This can be achieved through automotive off-the-shelf programmable isolators that can even come with twin voltmeters to give a guide about what is happening and automatically (or manually) switch to protect the starting battery at a pre-determined voltage.

One Aussie rider had a manual twin lithium battery set-up on his Tenere and ran the Iron Butt Rally with it - now that's an 11000mile road test. I have a twin battery set-up on my tiny alternator BMW F800GT. This can be done.

Any ideas on how to do it?

This is SOP on Internet forums everywhere...

Q: I have (2) large driving lights that I want to mount, and I'm not sure if the mount points I've chosen (see pic) are strong enough. I could go with smaller lights, but I've had these specific ones on 3 different bikes over the last 400,000 miles, and I really really love them. Thoughts on the mounting points shown?

A: Why do you need such big lights anyway?
A: I mounted lights on my [insert bike/mount points that have no relevance whatsoever] and it worked fine.
A: Those lights suck.
A: There are smaller lights available. I'd get some.
etc. etc.

Speaking of lights, I bought some ADVMonster lights last year that were shit on several levels, and I posted a thread on ADV about it to warn folks. Oooh boy you shoulda seen the ridiculousness there. All I did was relate my experience, and why it frustrated me, and the response was amazing.

 

[snakebitten]

I keep waiting for EricV to post in here.

He thinks of the craziest things to do with his Tenere. He figured out how to carry 146 gallons (or something like that)of fuel onboard so he can get from Las Angeles to New York and back, non-stop! I don't think he is ever happier than when he is sitting on that Russell All-Week seat of his.

I never had the courage to ask how he pees, but I am guessing he has a Texas Catheter hidden somewhere on that Iron Butt masterpiece of his.
(Texas catheter. Look it up. While I think it is a marvel of engineering, I never understood why my home state gets the credit)

Bet he would know a good way to have a bank of batteries stuffed in or on there somewhere.

 

[Super10NJ]

OX-34 you're hitting on some valid points, also I ride solo a lot and would love to have a second battery as backup since there is literally almost no way to bump start this monster.


That said I now need a battery guy to tell me if I can mix two identically rated but different chemistry batteries. The guy in this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZzinsfI2Y0 states that one battery will discharge another if they are different capacities and i'm wondering if different chemistries might have some sort of hang-up as well since the alternator may charge one quicker than the other?

BUT despite my initial statements, ideally I would have actually wanted to run a small lead battery as the back up/aux and also to warm up the lithium in the occasional extreme cold startup (been camping in sub 20F a few times) if I can't for example mix a small 6ah lead acid (YTZ7S) with a much larger capacity 18ah lithium I may yet again be out of luck.

Hope all that was clear enough.

 

[Checkswrecks]

OX-34 you're hitting on some valid points, also I ride solo a lot and would love to have a second battery as backup since there is literally almost no way to bump start this monster.


That said I now need a battery guy to tell me if I can mix two identically rated but different chemistry batteries. The guy in this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZzinsfI2Y0 states that one battery will discharge another if they are different capacities and i'm wondering if different chemistries might have some sort of hang-up as well since the alternator may charge one quicker than the other?

BUT despite my initial statements, ideally I would have actually wanted to run a small lead battery as the back up/aux and also to warm up the lithium in the occasional extreme cold startup (been camping in sub 20F a few times) if I can't for example mix a small 6ah lead acid (YTZ7S) with a much larger capacity 18ah lithium I may yet again be out of luck.

Hope all that was clear enough.

Clear as a bell and mixing is a really bad idea to try to simply connect a less-expensive lithium. The easiest way to explain it is that our friendly little electrons are lazy shits and will always take the easiest route. One battery will be beat to death and if it's the lithium you're going to be in trouble.


There are ways to do it, involving either a much more expensive lithium with built-in battery management system (you'll still wear out the lithium first), or an idiot-proof isolation for the lithium backup.

 

[magic]

SUPER10NJ; The 2 battery setup like you are talking about is actually a very common practice on boats. I have had a few boats that were equipped with isolators. They allow both batteries to be charged, but prevent your starting battery from going dead. You could fish all day with your electronics, pumps, lights and other accessories on and not have to worry about your main battery discharging. Check out www.trueam.com for some ideas. I see they now have setups for ATVs too. There are lots of different kinds of isolators available, surely someone has one that would work for you. I would look at the marine suppliers because it will be waterproof and somewhat shock resistant. I don't recall ever having any problems with them on my boats. As stated in a previous post, do NOT mix battery types. Both should be the same type because of different charging requirements. As for where to put the 2nd battery, take a look at the area behind your right side pannier, there is some space inbetween the pannier and the tire. There are several companies that make tool boxes that fit in there. Bumot is one. You may be able to get a battery in there. Under the luggage rack is another possibility. Either location might require some customizing to make it work, but I just thought I would throw those ideas out for you. The isolator would fit nicely under the seat. Good luck

 

[Super10NJ]

SUPER10NJ; The 2 battery setup like you are talking about is actually a very common practice on boats. I have had a few boats that were equipped with isolators. They allow both batteries to be charged, but prevent your starting battery from going dead. You could fish all day with your electronics, pumps, lights and other accessories on and not have to worry about your main battery discharging. Check out www.trueam.com for some ideas. I see they now have setups for ATVs too. There are lots of different kinds of isolators available, surely someone has one that would work for you. I would look at the marine suppliers because it will be waterproof and somewhat shock resistant. I don't recall ever having any problems with them on my boats. As stated in a previous post, do NOT mix battery types. Both should be the same type because of different charging requirements. As for where to put the 2nd battery, take a look at the area behind your right side pannier, there is some space inbetween the pannier and the tire. There are several companies that make tool boxes that fit in there. Bumot is one. You may be able to get a battery in there. Under the luggage rack is another possibility. Either location might require some customizing to make it work, but I just thought I would throw those ideas out for you. The isolator would fit nicely under the seat. Good luck

This could be ideal, thank you. And Checkswrecks thanks for the info as well