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p51super10bombay

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longride said:
Well taking off from a stop and on off transitions always go through the 1500 to 2000 range. How else could you get to 6 grand?? :)) It is stop and go that shows the snatchiness.
I noticed that on a stock bike I test rode a couple of weeks ago when making a tight 180 at walking speed.
 

avc8130

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I think it's just a carryover from my dirt bike days. When I'm going that slow I'm on the clutch. I really don't think I'm ever below 2500 with working the clutch.

I'll still look into it. Won't be able to do test rides for quite some time with this weather.

Ac

longride said:
Well taking off from a stop and on off transitions always go through the 1500 to 2000 range. How else could you get to 6 grand?? :)) It is stop and go that shows the snatchiness.
 

avc8130

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longride said:
Well taking off from a stop and on off transitions always go through the 1500 to 2000 range. How else could you get to 6 grand?? :)) It is stop and go that shows the snatchiness.
Longride,

Was the snatchiness only in S mode?

I think I see it. I'm going to guess it was throttle openings sub 25%. I'm going to make an adjustment and it will be included in all future flashes.

ac
 

snakebitten

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AC,
Not saying you'll have many customers who find themselves below 2500 rpm's, but the rock crawlers do. If you don't ever crawl, you won't likely find out how good this motor is between about 1800-2300 rpms. You don't need clutch at all. It'll just tractor along at 11-13mph and never buck or cough.
I myself didn't think it would do this based on all the rode riding I had done before the first crawl. You would have to make a real effort to ride in that range just to experience it. But it will do it.

Bet with those sweet tools you got you can nail it. It's just not your riding style. Try going to a parking lot and grunt around in that range. Even in second gear.

Obviously you don't crank in much throttle from down that low. :)

It'd be easier to test going uphill. It likes to have a load against it when it's chugchuging.
 

avc8130

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snakebitten said:
AC,
Not saying you'll have many customers who find themselves below 2500 rpm's, but the rock crawlers do. If you don't ever crawl, you won't likely find out how good this motor is between about 1800-2300 rpms. You don't need clutch at all. It'll just tractor along at 11-13mph and never buck or cough.
I myself didn't think it would do this based on all the rode riding I had done before the first crawl. You would have to make a real effort to ride in that range just to experience it. But it will do it.

Bet with those sweet tools you got you can nail it. It's just not your riding style. Try going to a parking lot and grunt around in that range. Even in second gear.

Obviously you don't crank in much throttle from down that low. :)

It'd be easier to test going uphill. It likes to have a load against it when it's chugchuging.
Snake,

I hear ya, it is just a paradigm shift for me. I go that slow, I just do it with the clutch. I grew up riding 2 stroke dirt bikes, so its' just my "way".

I am 95% sure I see the "issue" in the map, and I have it "fixed" already.

I won't be able to test for quite a while due to weather, but I feel pretty good about it.

Trust me, I am willing to test anything.

ac
 

Frenchfries

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After receiving the ECU on Thursday (sent from San Diego on previous Saturday), I reinstalled it and went for a 275 miles ride on Saturday.

Conditions of the test: temp 60-90 F (yes!!!!), dry and sunny. 2013 Super Ténéré with 2500 miles. -70 ECU (very important!). Dow Jones 16,154.

Here is my feedback on the reflashed ECU by AVC:
T mode: The first and second gear are very smooth and predictable. But revving up in 2 then 3-4 makes me think I am riding a 500cc. As I am not a beginner (I got my first 125cc in 1976), and the Super Ténéré is by no means a beginner's bike, I don't really see the point of such T mode.
S mode: The first gear is almost as smooth as the one in T mode. That is excellent, because most of the difficult maneuver requiring finesse will be performed in 1st gear. The second gear is very (too?) smooth too. I have tested them on a dirt trail with sand, rocks and gullies, and the engine responsiveness did not cause any issue. The third gear is the swiss army knife, i.e. the gear being used from 20 to 70 mph in hard corners and mountainous roads. This is the most important gear. And it is a success! The power surge felt in the OEM flash when shutting off the throttle, then reopening smoothly has disappeared. The smoothness of the power makes the bike fast in these twisties.
Gears 4 to 6 were OK in the OEM flash, and are smoother in the S mode, while ultimately delivering the same power.
I was surprised and disappointed by the lack of engine brake that comes with the new flash. I had mopeds with better engine brake than that. It makes me feel I am driving a car with automatic transmission, to slow down you need to apply the brakes. It takes forever for the bike to come down from 4K rpm to 2K rpm. I have always used the engine brake as an essential part of the control of the bike, and I felt frustrated with the lack of it.
I like the smoothness, but not without the engine brake.

To summarize: The T mode is not really necessary since the S mode is so smooth and predictable. The engine brake, of rather lack of thereof needs to be addressed.
Next: is there a way to have a real S mode? I missed the grunt of the OEM 4-6 gear where the torque and power really push your butt and extend the arms from 3 to 5K rpm (Remember, this a 2013 model with -70 ECU that seems to be quite different from the previous -30 version). I am not sure it was more powerful than the new flash, but it brought a big smile on my face each time. The new flash is efficient but not exhilarating. I would love a S version that would be a bit brutal in 2 to 6 gear. In fact, like the OEM 4-6, but on all gears (maybe not on 1st, to avoid mishap).

Anthony (AVC) enlightened me with the following comment:
What you have there is supposed to be a T mode that is a 100% linear throttle. You can command 100% engine throttle by going 100% on your wrist. In stock mode you could only have ~50-60% MAX in T mode. The purpose of MY T mode was to give you something you have 100% control of.

Your S mode is a ramped throttle. Once you get over the "cruise' throttle range the throttle becomes a "quick turn". By 80% on the wrist you are at 100% on the motor.
Anthony has put a third hidden map that is activated by using the “clutch mod”(shorting the clutch connector with a fuse). He suggested me to try it. I did.

Here is the report.
Same test conditions, but the Dow lost 24 points.
I found an excuse to ride 2x 40 miles on San Diego freeways.
I did the clutch mod with a fuse. So my first 40 miles were with the engine in "91 octane-only mode". The hidden modified map. Whaaaoooo! This is it. I found the grunt I was experiencing with the OEM S-mode (-70 ECU), but much better, with a sense of fullness at any RPM that does not exist in any other map. Open the throttle, and brooaaa, the rocket is launched. It made me smile during all the trip, although I was stuck in the traffic. And that is the second very positive point. AVC has succeeded in making this virile mode easy to dose and to use even in dense traffic, doing lane sharing, stop and go, and slalom around the cars. Probably not for a beginner, but very satisfying.
The trip back, still in traffic, was done using T and S mode. I confirm that the T mode is not really necessary. The same low speed control can be achieve either in T or S mode. The T mode is just more tamed in revving higher. But if you get into more than 1/3 throttle, you need the power and the responsiveness anyway. So the S mode is fine as a T mode. The lack of engine brake is still noticeable. Note that I didn't felt any lack of engine brake in the "91 octane-only mode". But I was paying so much attention to the power and the cars, that I can't be absolutely positive.
Conclusions:
- I confirm that the OEM -70 ECU has a great S mode, although frustrating in the first 3 gears.
- the AVC T mode is very easy in low revs, and makes me feel I am riding a 500cc like a CB500Four. (I am politically correct here, because it seems a lot of riders like this mode. But for me, it is just useless!)
- the AVC S mode is a great T mode, but needs more engine brake. It will work fine in the dirt and in tiny twisty roads.
- the AVC 91 octane is just what a big dual-sport bike rider needs on the road. It is better than a 09 GSA, reminds me of the power of a Triumph Tiger 888 or 955, just more torque/power and overall better.

End of the report. All of this is subjective, and depends on the way the rider rides. But it is better than no info.
I will return my ECU to Anthony to get the S mode with more engine brake in T mode position, and the "91 octane only" in S mode position. It seems that the T mode accepts lower fuel grades, so this aspect is covered too. Overall, I am a very happy camper. ;D ;D ;D
 

longride

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avc8130 said:
Longride,

Was the snatchiness only in S mode?

I think I see it. I'm going to guess it was throttle openings sub 25%. I'm going to make an adjustment and it will be included in all future flashes.

ac

Yes. Only 'S' mode did it. 'T' mode is smooth at silk. Not a big deal really. For low speed work, I can live with 'T' mode.
 

avc8130

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longride said:
Yes. Only 'S' mode did it. 'T' mode is smooth at silk. Not a big deal really. For low speed work, I can live with 'T' mode.
Ok, good. I see what was causing it and have fixed it for future revisions.

ac
 

avc8130

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greenwall said:
Well, I am waiting for my ECU from Anthony and am now thoroughly confused about what to expect.
Contact me.

I think USPS tried to deliver your package yesterday but I wasn't there to sign. I should have it today. I will flash it tonight, so if you want to know/choose what you get after reading these reviews let me know ASAP.

ac
 

longride

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greenwall said:
Well, I am waiting for my ECU from Anthony and am now thoroughly confused about what to expect.
You can expect a much better Tenere. Any small issues with the flash is just nit-picking and trying to perfect what is already very good. You won't be asking for your money back! ::008::
 

greenwall

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longride said:
You can expect a much better Tenere. Any small issues with the flash is just nit-picking and trying to perfect what is already very good. You won't be asking for your money back! ::008::

Sounds good to me.
 

djm_ct

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Not to nitpick, but has anyone done a side by side comparison of a ECU Unleashed Gen 2 vs AC's option?
Much feedback has been given on the ECU Unleashed option.. all good. And now it looks like AC is getting his dialed in nicely.

The next logical progression in my mind would be a back to back ride test on bikes with both options. I don't know logistically if we have two bikes in the same geography with both options, but if there were it would be valuable info, both for AC and for us farklers.
 

Rasher

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Even better would be for someone to get the unleashed files extracted so they could be compared - and maybe a "best of breed" map configured, I am sure both have their pro's and cons.
 

Frenchfries

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I am always surprised and disappointed how picky by-standers can be.
We all have a common problem. The Yamaha Super Ténéré is not as good as it should be. One commercial company is offering one single solution package for $450 + S&H. One other company offers a quick and unproved fix for $100 +S&H or a complete DIY for $450. And we have a guy, lone standing in New Jersey, battling with his shovel in the snow storms, putting hours of learning and trying-n-testing to provide a range of possibilities to tailor your ride the way you like it. All of this for a mere $100 (less than 25 gal of premium).
Give me a break. Get a ECUnleash fix and waste your money, or give a try to AVC, and show him your support. This guy isn't there for the money, and his input for our community is invaluable. Respect.

End of the preach
Amen.
 

longride

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French fries hit it right. 450 vs. 100 is a no brainer. Avc is up front and willing to tweak the flash. Mine is just fine. I don't think you can go wrong.
 

Langolier

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Frenchfries said:
This guy isn't there for the money, and his input for our community is invaluable. Respect.

End of the preach
Amen.

I have expressed earlier my appreciation to ac for his input also. I finally was able to install my re-flash today (2013 w\ECU "-70"). Unfortunately I live in snowbound WI. so my test report will have to wait. What I did notice is I still have a "piston slap" sound when I crack open the throttle off of idle, I wasn't expecting (hoping ?) the re flash to remove it. I'm thinking I need more break in time (only 300mi on the clock) or do the TB adjustment to give it richer setting off of idle.
 

avc8130

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Langolier said:
I have expressed earlier my appreciation to ac for his input also. I finally was able to install my re-flash today (2013 w\ECU "-70"). Unfortunately I live in snowbound WI. so my test report will have to wait. What I did notice is I still have a "piston slap" sound when I crack open the throttle off of idle, I wasn't expecting (hoping ?) the re flash to remove it. I'm thinking I need more break in time (only 300mi on the clock) or do the TB adjustment to give it richer setting off of idle.
Wow, you guys must really be snowbound if you are worried about that... ::016::

I thought I was going stir-crazy. ::025::
 

OldRider

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Langolier said:
I have expressed earlier my appreciation to ac for his input also. I finally was able to install my re-flash today (2013 w\ECU "-70"). Unfortunately I live in snowbound WI. so my test report will have to wait. What I did notice is I still have a "piston slap" sound when I crack open the throttle off of idle, I wasn't expecting (hoping ?) the re flash to remove it. I'm thinking I need more break in time (only 300mi on the clock) or do the TB adjustment to give it richer setting off of idle.
IMO, I wouldn't do anything until there's a few more miles on the clock. Motorcycles along with cars, truck, mowers and chainsaws all change after they get some miles/hrs on the engine. Let it get broke in and then fine tune.
 
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