Reservations are NOT transferrable?

[joedec]

Didn't see a similar post so I hope this isn't a duplicate but ... I thought I would snag someones cancellation and the local dealer tells me Yamaha is refunding the $500 ONLY can canceling the deal. No new takers. Seems a little self destructive to me.

If anyone on the forum can shed some light on this topic that would be great. (Also assuming the spots can be transferred I'd be interested in that too, of some one out there doesn't care to wait.)

... Jeff

 

[Thunderpig]

I don't know if it's the same thing but when I purchased mine I got it from the sales' manager order. We negotiated a price, and then he offered to assign me his bike order if I was interested in getting it sooner. I don't know if he was being nice or wanted out of his deal but I paid $500 and am now waiting like everyone else. He did say that it would be a second assignment title (Yamaha to him, then to me) but would have no impact on it's status for warranty or anything.

 

[pqsqac]

That is strange because back in Feb I took the spot of a guy that ordered in mid Sep 2010 without issue. Paid my dep and now wait the wait.

 

[jajpko]

I don't know if it's the same thing but when I purchased mine I got it from the sales' manager order. We negotiated a price, and then he offered to assign me his bike order if I was interested in getting it sooner. I don't know if he was being nice or wanted out of his deal but I paid $500 and am now waiting like everyone else. He did say that it would be a second assignment title (Yamaha to him, then to me) but would have no impact on it's status for warranty or anything.

If that is true, about the second assignment of the title, it could have an impact on finance rates. In a negative way. Just saying..

 

[markjenn]

It is curious that Yamaha is allowing cancellations but no new official PDP orders. I'm sure they have their reasons, but since the whole idea of the PDP is the efficiency of building to an exact number of bikes ordered without risk of unsold stock, one would presume that this number is going to be fluid until the cancellation period closes. So why not allow new orders back in? I don't get it either.

But.... dealers are able to transfer orders from one purchaser to another. (I'm not sure whether it can be done now or they have to leave things in the original name and do the paperwork when the bike comes in.) This is how they're ordering for "floor stock" or to handle folks who want it at the last minute. So you should be able to find a dealer willing to give you a slot, either one in the dealer's name or someone who has cancelled.

- Mark

 

[markjenn]

If that is true, about the second assignment of the title, it could have an impact on finance rates. In a negative way. Just saying..

I doubt it would be an official 2nd assignment of title. AFAIK, someone who takes over an order would still get an official MSO and be the original purchaser. Perhaps Tony or someone might step in and describe how this works, although I suspect dealers aren't being terribly forthcoming so they don't run afoul of their dealer agreements and confidentially with Yamaha.

The bottom line is that Yamaha is discouraging transfer of PDP slots to avoid speculation and a black market. From their POV, they want "real buyers" on their PDP list. But dealers have been able to transfer slots and many dealers have ordered bikes in their own, family member, employee names, etc.

- Mark

 

[Thunderpig]

If that is true, about the second assignment of the title, it could have an impact on finance rates. In a negative way. Just saying..

That might very well be true and an important consideration. Doesn't affect me ...

 

[Yamaguy55]

It is curious that Yamaha is allowing cancellations but no new official PDP orders. I'm sure they have their reasons, but since the whole idea of the PDP is the efficiency of building to an exact number of bikes ordered without risk of unsold stock, one would presume that this number is going to be fluid until the cancellation period closes. So why not allow new orders back in? I don't get it either.

But.... dealers are able to transfer orders from one purchaser to another. (I'm not sure whether it can be done now or they have to leave things in the original name and do the paperwork when the bike comes in.) This is how they're ordering for "floor stock" or to handle folks who want it at the last minute. So you should be able to find a dealer willing to give you a slot, either one in the dealer's name or someone who has cancelled.

- Mark

I would think that at this point, they would want to fill back the orders lost to those that changed their minds, etc. I'd call the main office in Cypress CA and ask. Some dealers are getting like Harley dealers on this stuff. That wasn't meant as a compliment.

 

[markjenn]

My only criticism of Yamaha throughout this is the lack of good clear communication on their plans. We get these one-sentence adjustments of schedule and not much else. Into this void, steps rumor and speculation.

- Mark

 

[Koinz]

I would think that at this point, they would want to fill back the orders lost to those that changed their minds, etc. I'd call the main office in Cypress CA and ask. Some dealers are getting like Harley dealers on this stuff. That wasn't meant as a compliment.

It seems to me from Yamaha's actions lately is they can't fill the orders they have due to supply issues. Unfortunately in this case, less is better. The more people who drop out, might mean that they'll have parts to complete the bikes for the people who stuck around.

So, Please anyone else want to drop out :

 

[markjenn]

It seems to me from Yamaha's actions lately is they can't fill the orders they have due to supply issues. Unfortunately in this case, less is better. The more people who drop out, might mean that they'll have parts to complete the bikes for the people who stuck around.

No one knows for sure, but this doesn't feel like a parts shortage issue where a few are trickling out - if this were so, I think we would be seeing plans to ship bikes in the near future at a low production rate and stretching on into Nov. The abrupt moving of all orders to a Nov delivery feels more like there is completely unavailability of one or more critical parts (perhaps because a supplier was essentially wiped out) that will likely stay that way until a couple months before Nov.

And we don't want this to be a low-volume niche bike. The more S10's out on the road, the better for all of us.

- Mark

 

[HoebSTer]

Jeff, I have a dealer that will gladly take your deposit from the back-ed out order his mechanic did. Let me know what you think.

 

[doctorj]

IIRC, jerold at D & H told me that if I didn't want the bike, I could sell it to another but they didn't put that other person in my place. I didn't think much about it, but that would require doing a titile, tag and tax wouldn't it and then reselling it. That wouldn't make sense to me, but if I decide to stay in the hunt, it won't matter to me.

doctorj

 

[markjenn]

... that would require doing a titile, tag and tax wouldn't it and then reselling it.

I don't think there is anything in the paperwork from Yamaha that locks a bike's paperwork to a given owner with respect to title. The dealer originates the title paperwork for the first time and typically this paperwork gets sent to the state with a title application, bill-of-sale, and manufacturer's statement of origin (the MSO - you can think of it as the "birth certificate" for a new vehicle).

Again, I don't know exactly how the dealer's paperwork gets handled with Yamaha and Yamaha may have some policies that need to be adhered to, but I don't think there is anything to keep the dealer from filling out the first title paperwork any way they want.

Now, there may be something going on where the dealer has to pay Yamaha within 30 days of receipt of the bike and depending on state law, perhaps this requires the title paperwork to be started when this happens. But this situation would be one in which the dealer floors the bike and then gets a buyer, not where another buyer is ready and waiting to step and take the order over.

- Mark

 

[joedec]

Thanks for all the replies. I think what's going on here is this dealer of mine is price gouging. He "thought" he could still order and agreed to a price even. When I got there to pay him he "found out" there are no more orders and offered his own stock. Of course those cost a lot more.

Too bad we hadn't drawn a contract yet, was all verbal.

... Jeff

 

[Dirt_Dad]

... he "found out" there are no more orders and offered his own stock.

Even if you give the dealer the benefit of the doubt (which is hard to do), it's amazing that customers go into the dealership with more knowledge than the dealership personnel. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. It happens in electronics, many auto dealers and definitely bikes. The salesman is often just an order taker and has little knowledge of what he's selling. There are exceptions, but they seem to exist primarily on the high end items. I have a riding buddy that's a Porsche salesman and he actually knows stuff about Porsche. I think that's the exception.

 

[joedec]

Yeah I guess I should give the guy the benefit of the doubt. You know I am fortunate to have a dealer that I've know the parts manager for over 15 years, the owner for 20, but they don't sell Yamaha, mainly Honda. I guess I'm spoiled, I've been taken care of by Honda and this one dealer in every way for two decades. It's important to me to have an OEM relationship for whatever I'm riding. Maybe I'm just old school there too ;-)

...Jeff

 

[SisuTen]

Even if you give the dealer the benefit of the doubt (which is hard to do), it's amazing that customers go into the dealership with more knowledge than the dealership personnel. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. It happens in electronics, many auto dealers and definitely bikes. The salesman is often just an order taker and has little knowledge of what he's selling. There are exceptions, but they seem to exist primarily on the high end items. I have a riding buddy that's a Porsche salesman and he actually knows stuff about Porsche. I think that's the exception.

When you buy ANY vehicle, the contract to purchase is between you and the manufacturer. The dealer/salesperson is simply the middleman who does the paperwork and provides service/parts support for a fee. Nothing more.

I believe that a dealer should be able to arrange transfer of a spot in line with Yamaha...with a little effort. We have dealers on the forum who could, but probably would not, comment about other dealership's practices and procedures. I wouldn't blame them at all for not doing so. I'd contact Yamaha directly if I had questions.

It's not unusual for an informed customer to know more about a product than the salesperson these days. A couple of hours on the internet and you have it. I've never been a salesman, but if I were, you would never be able to get the drop on me.

 

[markjenn]

When you buy ANY vehicle, the contract to purchase is between you and the manufacturer.

This is simply not true. The seller in a vehicle purchase is the dealer you're buying it from same as if you were buying a toaster at Costco.

- Mark

 

[SisuTen]

You are still misinformed, Mark. You misunderstand the "dealer" concept. Dealers are just that, middlemen. that's why they call them "dealers", they work the deal. They are just salespeople with a manufacturers franchise. You pay them, they take their cut, and send the final payment to the manufacturer. If what you say were true, each "dealer" would be individually responsible for all warranty liability on all of the products(including motorcycles and toasters) they "Deal" in. Outfits like Best Buy(dealer) will replace defective products up to a certain time frame. Beyond that, you must go to the Manufacturer. Exchange programs are a convenience to the customer in order that they don't have to go through the hassle of dealing with shipping items back and forth to the manufacturer and return. Best Buy is compensated for providing this service, but have no real liability other than truthful marketing.

Example: let's say you purchase a used 2011 motorcycle from the original retail purchaser. A private owner. Would that person be liable for the warranty on the machine? Nope. But technically, he's a "dealer", unlicensed or not. Why isn't he responsible? From a personal merchant standpoint, his ONLY obligation arises "IF" he misrepresents the bike to you. Even then, caveat emptor (buyer beware) prevails, and there's little you can do other than small claims court (good luck with THAT!). Same for your local Yamaha dealer. If the product is defective, the manufacturer is the responsible party.

Incidently, dealers DO NOT receive a title on new motorcycles received in their dealership. The original title is issued by your state title agency to the first retail purchaser.

Paul