Rear Spring Pre-load and loaded bike

[offcamber]

This past weekend was the first time I really loaded the bike up with gear...Camping gear, Cpap battery, cloths, tools, etc. I didn't weight it all but maybe I should. Needless to say I had to crank the preload on the rear spring all the way up. My question is how do I know it all the way up? the knob keeps turning...its not stripped but doesn't feel like the spring is getting any firmer....Once I cranked it to what I felt must be the limit the bike road better but I wouldn't mind more. I weight 230lbs I doubt I added more than a 100lbs even with the empty weight of the panniers and racks factored in but I guess I'll have to weigh the stuff to find out.... I tried to put the heavy items as low as possible...

I really don't want to have to up grade the spring/shock if I can avoid it.

Here is a pic of the bike loaded...

 

[avc8130]

Oh man! That's a serious load.

You probably don't want to hear it, but your stock suspension really can't handle that too well.

You know the rear is at full preload when the indicator points to the max line. That's all she's got. The stock spring rate is ~675...you need ~850.

ac

 

[offcamber]

That's kinda sad because my Kawasaki Versys handled it just fine Same panniers and about the same gear... I don't think I added the weight of an average passenger so it would seem the bike should be setup for it.

 

[offcamber]

Just for a quick break down of what I have loaded....

The duffel across the seat has a sleeping bag and pad...not much wieght there...

The top box is essentially empty...just an extra pair of gloves, water bottle and phone charger.

Left pannier has clothing for two days plus shaving kit. Rollie on top has a small hatchet; knife, small stove with fuel bottle, Flash light, tent light, toilet paper, small towel, mess kit. Maybe 10-15 lbs.

The right pannier has my Cpap machine and battery ( the battery is heavy about 13lbs), and pair of sneakers...the large compression sack on top of that has a tent about 13lbs also.

I reall didn't think this was a lot considering the bike is desinged for adventure touring....perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[snakebitten]

Don't let the aftermarket shock guys scare you dude.
(and I am one of them)

I put MANY miles on my S10 loaded JUST like yours AND with the wife on the back too.
The OEM shock can take it. The bike can take it. It won't just fall down and go boom boom.

What IS true is that your headlight will be pointing higher at night and the bike will not handle nearly as nice.
You have to adjust how aggressive you drive. That's all.
Folks all over the world do way crazier things to their 2 wheel vehicles than that.

 

[spklbuk]

Nope, I agree it is not a lot. But the more often you ride it loaded, the more boat like the ride will become. A shock upgrade is the only known cure. Transforms the machine from boat to road runner. I just did these roads...http://s158.photobucket.com/user/spklbuk/story/38281...fully loaded, more weight than you had for sure and I scooted along at a fair to middlin' pace w/ no problems.



And yep, my lil red Kawa 650 mule (aka Versys) would handle same load well too.

 

[gmtech]

if the top box is empty but the bag in the box. why so many bags cram that shit in there!
less bags to worry about adjusting or getting swiped at gas station wherever. ::022::
put nitrogen in the tire its lighter than air and youl get better gas milage ) both are a lie

 

[avc8130]

Exactly. Can your ride it like that? OF COURSE. You are less than the manufacturer's GVWR. Does that mean it will handle well? Probably depends on your definition of "well".

I can tell you right now that your rear sag is greater than 55mm. What does that mean? That means you have reduced rear shock UP travel to soak up bumps. You can't compensate for this by adjusting compression because the stock shock doesn't allow it. It also means your chassis geometry is all whacked up. Your excessive rear sag is creating a significantly slackened head angle. This will make the bike handle slower and less precisely, requiring more input to steer.

If you like it, rock it. If it sucks, ~$900 fixes it.

ac

 

[offcamber]

Two reasons I keep the top box empty...one I don't like a lot of weight that high when I'm loaded. Second I like to have the space for a few things that I need quick access to. Like the water ball cap ect. Besides the stuff in the duffel won't fit in the top box anyway. I may ditch the top box and use a tank bag for that stuff...then I could strap the duffel parallel to the bike. However it does make a nice backrest.

The bike didn't handle awful and I don't expect it to handle like a sport bike loaded like that. The only real issue I had was low speed but for the most part it did fine. I just noticed I could suddenly flat foot the bike.

 

[offcamber]

Maybe someday I'll consider a shock upgrade but for now I'm calling it good....perhaps a set of tank pannier would even out the load.

 

[ejy712]

Maybe someday I'll consider a shock upgrade but for now I'm calling it good....perhaps a set of tank pannier would even out the load.

There may be a middle ground here. I had the same problem with my wife and a weekend's load of luggage. The ride was acceptable at max preload. But just. The shock never bottomed.

I improved the ride considerably by replacing the rear OEM spring with a progressive wound spring from Hyperpro, then setting the rebound damping to eliminate wallowing. I'm a unit and a half below max preload for my wife and myself. Before I could have used more at max preload.

http://www.wilbersusa.com/hyperpro-springs.htm

Rear spring: SP-YA12-SSB011 $139.00

 

[offcamber]

There may be a middle ground here. I had the same problem with my wife and a weekend's load of luggage. The ride was acceptable at max preload. But just. The shock never bottomed.

I improved the ride considerably by replacing the rear OEM spring with a progressive wound spring from Hyperpro, then setting the rebound damping to eliminate wallowing. I'm a unit and a half below max preload for my wife and myself. Before I could have used more at max preload.

http://www.wilbersusa.com/hyperpro-springs.htm

Rear spring: SP-YA12-SSB011 $139.00

Know that's a little more in my price range...Thanks I will consider it.

 

[jrb_nw]

Tank bag is also a much better place to put weight than having the box on the rear where it has further leverage over rear spring and catches the wind. Always try to center your mass.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Karson]

Also, I believe you'll need a spacer in the rear shock if you go with a Eibach or Hyperpro aftermarket spring. Call Jaxon and he can get you that spacer for $65.

http://www.rideonadv.com/Ride_On_Adv/spring_spacer.html

 

[Dallara]

~


And let us all not forget here we are talking about apples and kumquats... Not apples to apples.

The Kawasaki Versys was known to have a rather stiff rear shock out of the box (I owned two, a 2008 and a 2009), and it only had 5.7' of claimed rear wheel travel, whereas Yamaha claims 7.5" of rear wheel travel, or about 25% more. What does this mean given this discussion? Well, the Versys will get "up into" the stiffer loading of its rear spring earlier, and it won't feel like it's experiencing as much of a chassis change as it compresses.

Add to this the fact the Kawasaki uses no linkage for rate change through the stroke an has a much shorter swingarm (as well as wheelbase - 55.7 vs. 60.6") and you have two very different animals indeed. Yes, you may be putting the same load on them, but how they feel, and react, to that load will be far, far different. Chassis dynamics and the bike's reaction to load have nothing to do with engine size or price, but with geometry, linkage ratios, and spring rate.

Just FYI...

Dallara



~

 

[Rasher]

Don't let the aftermarket shock guys scare you dude......

........What IS true is that your headlight will be pointing higher at night and the bike will not handle nearly as nice.
You have to adjust how aggressive you drive. That's all.

::026::

I have found almost all of my bikes too soft for chucking around two-up, sure they all did it OK, I just had various issues with not being able to ride the way I WANTED TO, and had to ride in a way that the bike did not misbehave too badly, on the S10 this meant:

1. Being more gentle on the gas (or it would sag down and run wide)
2. Not leaning so far (or it would deck out - made worse if not following rule 1)
3. Going slower in corners (partly due to number 2 and partly due to wallow and weave)
4. Putting up with it wallowing up and down like a boat in a storm if you caught a big bump, or a series of smaller bumps at the right (wrong) frequency

It was not terrible, just with a slightly stiffer sprung, better damped and far more adjustable shock I can now throw it around even more two-up than I could on the stock bike when solo, nothing beats riding around the outside of a Gixxer whilst two up with luggage on one of these monsters

 

[offcamber]

~


And let us all not forget here we are talking about apples and kumquats... Not apples to apples.

The Kawasaki Versys was known to have a rather stiff rear shock out of the box (I owned two, a 2008 and a 2009), and it only had 5.7' of claimed rear wheel travel, whereas Yamaha claims 7.5" of rear wheel travel, or about 25% more. What does this mean given this discussion? Well, the Versys will get "up into" the stiffer loading of its rear spring earlier, and it won't feel like it's experiencing as much of a chassis change as it compresses.

Add to this the fact the Kawasaki uses no linkage for rate change through the stroke an has a much shorter swingarm (as well as wheelbase - 55.7 vs. 60.6") and you have two very different animals indeed. Yes, you may be putting the same load on them, but how they feel, and react, to that load will be far, far different. Chassis dynamics and the bike's reaction to load have nothing to do with engine size or price, but with geometry, linkage ratios, and spring rate.

Just FYI...

Dallara



~

I understand what your saying however my reference really was that Versys is designed as a sport bike not a touring bike but the S10 is designed to be a touring bike which implies loading it with gear. One would think that the bike designed for the load would handle better when loaded than one that doesn't. Obviously that's not the case,

I'll also add the suspension never bottomed out...so it wasn't over taxed and beleive me the roads around here can bottom out a suspension. My only real complaint was the low speed handling...turning off the road to parking lot...that kinda thing...didn't feel that stable.

 

[snakebitten]

I understand what your saying however my reference really was that Versys is designed as a sport bike not a touring bike but the S10 is designed to be a touring bike which implies loading it with gear. One would think that the bike designed for the load would handle better when loaded than one that doesn't. Obviously that's not the case,

I'll also add the suspension never bottomed out...so it wasn't over taxed and beleive me the roads around here can bottom out a suspension. My only real complaint was the low speed handling...turning off the road to parking lot...that kinda thing...didn't feel that stable.

Can't really argue with you. While I have cheered Yamaha many times for; first, building this bike and bringing it to the US, and second, having the guts to not design a pretender, (like the genre seems to be allowing)
But they did cheap out on that rear shock. I can forgive them for the short life span and less than world class components. It's OEM, after all. But you can't list the GVW as allowing 450lbs of cargo and then not equip the rear shock to actually carry it well enough. Considerably under-sprung for the folks that are gonna actually load the mule.

In their defense, if they had put an 850-900lb spring on it, the lighter folks and the solo-only folks would have had a gripe too though.

This is why I have been the obnoxious proponent of the 2-model Tenere. Similar to the GS and GSA. Similar to the multiple sport bikes with regular and "R" versions.
The existing Tenere just as it is. Then the R version offered for a premium. The R version is simply a suspension upgrade designed for the folks that take the Tenere seriously as a Beast of Burden.

 

[sumo64c]

Spacer by Jaxon $65
Eibach 1000lb spring $65

If you're in the super heavy weight category, this setup works and is relatively inexpensive. So far I'm very happy as I went from max preload on a normal basis to 5 clicks with the new spring. I don't get flashed at night by oncoming traffic like I used to either. ::012:: I'm just starting non paved roads, so I don't require a full custom setup like some of the pilots do here.

 

[snakebitten]

Spacer by Jaxon $65
Eibach 1000lb spring $65

If you're in the super heavy weight category, this setup works and is relatively inexpensive. So far I'm very happy as I went from max preload on a normal basis to 5 clicks with the new spring. I don't get flashed at night by oncoming traffic like I used to either. ::012:: I'm just starting non paved roads, so I don't require a full custom setup like some of the pilots do here.

Add:
Single rate fork springs $110

to your formula, and I have to totally agree that is the Bang-for-buck solution!

Although with that 1000lb spring, you BETTER be a big boy or have the mule loaded with some kind of ballast.