Prospective New ST Owner....what are your biggest beefs about your 2014+ ST?

[Stef]

My biggest beef is I didn't buy one sooner.

 

[twinrider]

From what I understand, the abrupt throttle response is due to "fly-by-wire". My '04 truck has a throttle cable. My Jeep is a throttle wire. It has a horrible stumble off idle. (manual transmission) IMO a cable gives more accurate throttle control. Electricity is either on or off. But, my only beef with my Tenere is that I didn't buy it sooner.

My '09 HD Road King is throttle by wire and the on/off transition on the CC is super smooth.

 

[EricV]

My *biggest* beef with this cycle? Oh Boy, I sure can answer that now!

Short Answer: Crappy Seat, seems Unfix-able. My balls are stinging on every ride longer than 30 minutes.

Slightly Longer Answer:

Brought it home, and thought the seat pushed me somewhat into the gas tank. OK, searched the interwebs, and this forum was very helpful in describing and offering fixes for this issue. Implemented the fixes, huh, problem is still there.

Got the seat re-upholstered by Seat Concepts, and left the "slight tilt fix" described elsewhere in this forum applied. Problem Still There.

I have folks counseling patience, that it will "break in", as I make the adjustment in riding position and the seat begins to conform to my butt.

Man, I dunno. I've owned and operated dozens of cycles, and this is this first one to make my balls burn, by pushing me forward into the gas tank. It makes me short tempered and short with patience.

So, I'm gonna be as patient as I can, but I feel it wont last long. I'm already looking at taking a bath on this thing and getting something else. Its that bad...

Psst, it's not the seat. It's your undergarments. And possibly your riding wear too, (pants).

Now, about this claimed "re-upholstered" work by Seat Concepts. Well now, that was a waste of money. They sell a fine product. The same one to you as to everyone else that buys their product for the Super Ten. I'm sure some find it an improvement over stock. However, it is not, was never claimed to be, nor will it ever be, a custom seat made to fit YOU.

There are a variety of good custom seat makers. Yes, their work usually costs a bit more than an off the rack seat. Because it's done to your weight and shape to meet your needs and address your specific complaints. If you pay for a generic fix, you get a generic fix. That's what Seat Concepts is, generic. I can rattle off a number of custom seat makers that all do good work. But at the end of the day, if you're over 225 lbs, the honest ones will send you to Russell Cycle Products for a Day Long or Day Long Sport seat. That is because of the suspension design in those seats that goes beyond just different densities of foam. No foam will really work for long rides and heavy riders, especially in the heat. I have ridden with many riders on custom seats. Often on the same bike as what I was riding. Even the ones that swear their custom seat is the most awesome seat ever, still need to get off the bike before I do with the Russell Day Long seat.

Clearly this issue bothers you. Got it. So do something significant to address it. It will likely cost you less than you'll lose by selling the bike. I'd be interested to know your weight and what you ride in? Pants and undergarment wise. This is very often part of the problem. Sometimes the root cause.

To the oil change posters - It's a dry sump. This means that there is only less than a quart of oil in the actual engine at any given time. All the rest of the oil is stored elsewhere. The oil pump circulates the oil from that storage to the engine while it is running. All your misguided concern over the volume of oil you put in, has nothing to do with how much oil the engine is actually getting.
If you put two quarts of oil in the bike during an oil change, the engine gets exactly the same amount of oil while running as if you put in 4 quarts. So under or over fill, it makes no difference in how much oil the engine has when the bike is running. Only how quickly it circulates the available oil in the system from storage to the engine. The sight glass is for checking to see if the goldfish are still alive. Do not, ever, look at the sight glass immediately after doing an oil change. It has absolutely nothing to do with the volume of oil in the bike.

The sight glass is only a useful comparative tool when checked exactly per the procedure outlined in the owner's manual. That's a pretty narrow window of when it's reasonably useful as a comparative tool. It is NOT a measuring device in any way, shape or form. Nor was it intended to be one.

Gen I bikes do tend to use some oil during extended high rpm riding. High speed, not as much of an issue under 90, for most bikes. And not a quart per 1000 miles! That poster said he was carrying a quart, not that he used that much oil. If your bike uses a quart of oil per 1000 miles, you have an issue. In a closed course situation I rode my '12 for 1560 miles mostly at 90 mph and above and it needed less than 1/4 quart of oil to bring it back to what appeared to be 'normal'. Probably closer to 1/8 quart. Most of that oil was blow by from the breather tube in the air box, judging from the oil found there later. This does appear to be a Gen I thing, but I haven't had the opportunity to test this on the Gen II I now have.
::021::

 

[BadNews]

My *biggest* beef with this cycle? Oh Boy, I sure can answer that now!

Short Answer: Crappy Seat, seems Unfix-able. My balls are stinging on every ride longer than 30 minutes.

Slightly Longer Answer:

Brought it home, and thought the seat pushed me somewhat into the gas tank. OK, searched the interwebs, and this forum was very helpful in describing and offering fixes for this issue. Implemented the fixes, huh, problem is still there.

Got the seat re-upholstered by Seat Concepts, and left the "slight tilt fix" described elsewhere in this forum applied. Problem Still There.

I have folks councelling patience, that it will "break in", as I make the adjustment in riding position and the seat begins to conform to my butt.

Man, I dunno. I've owned and operated dozens of cycles, and this is this first one to make my balls burn, by pushing me forward into the gas tank. It makes me short tempered and short with patience.

So, I'm gonna be as patient as I can, but I feel it wont last long. I'm already looking at taking a bath on this thing and getting something else. Its that bad...

^^^What EricV said^^^
Unsatisfactory seats are good reasons to find another seat, not another bike (given that the bike is otherwise suitable).
While I didn't have the "tingly balls" issue with the stock seat, after about an hour I was starting to squirm. I now have the seat pictured below, on which I haven't found my limit yet. I went 2 1/2 hours once and only stopped then to stretch my legs and fuel up. Do you think you would be uncomfortable with this seat?

Regarding the seat tilt mod, are you sure you got the bumper cushions in the right place? They are to be placed in different positions depending on whether you ride with the seat in the High or Low position. If you change from High to Low or vice versa you have to move the bumper cushions.

 

[EricV]

I should have added that I've had 3 custom seats on two bikes. Two Russell Day Longs, one on a FJR and one on the Super Ten, and a Cee Bailey. The Cee Bailey seat just couldn't handle my weight and riding style. (260#/LD riding). I tried having them adjust it, but no go. Another forum member loves it now and I went back to a RDL. Both of my RDLs have seen over 100k miles of use and feel just as good as the first 500 miles.

 

[mebgardner]

After having read through the "Touring Commuting Seats / Saddles " thread, I will choose a custom maker and work with them.

I've had many, many happy Seat Concepts mods in the past, no re-mods, no failures. So, that I have to "try again" is annoying and expensive.

But, like EricV says, it will cost more to sell the bike. I don't yet feel like the losing stock buyer who "throws good money after bad". I'm not at that point yet.

I will choose carefully, this next one has to get it right.

I'm 175 lbs, 6'0", 33" inseam. There's something about this seat and / or riding position that shifts / moves me forward to the gas tank while riding. *That's* the root cause.

Anyway, I'm not ready to give up just yet.

Now, thanks very much for the assist, really I'm grateful, and back to our regularly scheduled thread.

 

[EricV]

Both the seat mod and the Seat Concepts cover should have removed most of the seat tilt. That makes me wonder about your torso height in considering the reach you have to the bars. I'm short torso for my height, so found that risers to move the bars back and up some helped avoid unintentionally pulling myself forward on the seat.

And I'd still like to know what you wear for riding pants/under garments. If you're wearing jeans and cotton under garments, that is part of the problem with your testicular discomfort, on this bike. Every seat places the jewels in a different orientation, relative to body position, tank shape, ergonomics of bars to seat reach, pegs to seat height, (i.e. hip to knee ratio), etc. Just because your normal riding attire has worked for you in the past, doesn't mean it's not part of the issue now.

 

[Defekticon]

I bought my RDL second hand, and I must match up closely to the original buyer as I've been able to pull 13 hour days without discomfort. At some point it will need to be recovered as it's probably 5 years old now. I might send it back to be reworked at the same time, but sort of cautious to do so as it's great as is. Wouldn't want to fix something that ain't broke.

 

[jack d]

In my experience with street bikes what you get with the bike is a "starter" seat. It is a seat to use to get you to your seat customizer/provider who will fix it/sell one to fit you. I plan to pick up an ST this morning. I could tell in a 20 mile test ride that this seat would be no exception. Normally I go straight to Russell but this bike is too tall for me already so I will look for a way to lower the seat height while increasing comfort. 5'7", 170#, 29" inseam. Over the last 10 years I have used Bill Mayer Sr. and Jr., Corbin, Sargent, Seth Laam, Seat Concepts, Spencer, Russell, Airhawk and Freedom Air. Russell is by far the best for long distance riding but the wings that provide side and thigh support force you to slide forward when stopping if you want to put a foot down. The Russell also adds an inch to your existing seat height. For me on the ST that would make the ground unreachable and also make me feel like I was riding a horse. Right now I am thinking Sargent, hopefully they have a low model and using the Freedom Air cushion.

 

[mebgardner]

[QOUTE] Regarding the seat tilt mod, are you sure you got the bumper cushions in the right place? They are to be placed in different positions depending on whether you ride with the seat in the High or Low position. If you change from High to Low or vice versa you have to move the bumper cushions. [/quote]

OK, I did not know this. I moved it to "lower" position yesterday, so I'll go fix where the bumpers are placed.

Both the seat mod and the Seat Concepts cover should have removed most of the seat tilt. That makes me wonder about your torso height in considering the reach you have to the bars. I'm short torso for my height, so found that risers to move the bars back and up some helped avoid unintentionally pulling myself forward on the seat.

And I'd still like to know what you wear for riding pants/under garments. If you're wearing jeans and cotton under garments, that is part of the problem with your testicular discomfort, on this bike. Every seat places the jewels in a different orientation, relative to body position, tank shape, ergonomics of bars to seat reach, pegs to seat height, (i.e. hip to knee ratio), etc. Just because your normal riding attire has worked for you in the past, doesn't mean it's not part of the issue now.

OK, I can hear this advice, I can hear you. Thanks...

Cotton jeans / pants.

It's becoming Summer in the Sonoran Desert, we hit 104 yesterday. I went riding In winter and spring / fall, I'm wearing Rev'It Overpants, for the protection. I just can not do it in summer, it's too much heat.

I noticed the reach to the bars, they're too far. I have the up 'n back rox risers on the bench, waiting for Tomatocity to ship my order of new set of longer / extension hoses. I looked three times at installing the risers anyway, and finally decided to wait until I had the extension hoses.

I'm waiting for that installation to complete, before deciding what to do next in seat modification.

Normally I go straight to Russell but this bike is too tall for me already so I will look for a way to lower the seat height while increasing comfort. 5'7", 170#, 29" inseam. Over the last 10 years I have used Bill Mayer Sr. and Jr., Corbin, Sargent, Seth Laam, Seat Concepts, Spencer, Russell, Airhawk and Freedom Air. Russell is by far the best for long distance riding but the wings that provide side and thigh support force you to slide forward when stopping if you want to put a foot down. The Russell also adds an inch to your existing seat height. For me on the ST that would make the ground unreachable and also make me feel like I was riding a horse. Right now I am thinking Sargent, hopefully they have a low model and using the Freedom Air cushion.

You've lots of experience in seats, I see. That experience serves you well, as you attempt to navigate the choices / offerings, based on what can be solved .vs what you *want* solved, .vs cost of solution.

I have tried Corbin, did not care for the rock-like feel which never broke in. Seat Concepts rebuilds have usually worked out OK, but not this time. I have no experience with the other makers. Even at seat "low" position, I'm on balls of feet at stop using the SC seat, another new "feature" unique to me on this cycle: What? TippyToe!??

I'm fortunate that I can afford any maker. Especially since I'd rather get this sorted than sell the cycle...

Knowing what you know about me (6'0", 175#, 33" inseam), what would you advise me on a custom seat maker choice? All advice welcome, anyone.

 

[EricV]

For what it's worth, the AltRider modification that they worked with ROX Speed to develop for using 2" pivot risers on the Super Ten w/o adding long lines does work. You don't need to buy their kit, but it's cheap if you want to. I just did the same thing with items in the garage and it works fine. No binding or tight hoses at full lock, no throttle cable issues. I did this a couple of weeks ago on my new to me '15. I had 1 1/2" up/back Rox risers on the '12, but they don't move over due to the changes from Gen I to II.

Here is the link to the page with the kit, and the excellent video on how to do it. http://www.altrider.com/rox-risers-install-kit-for-yamaha-super-tenere/pid/1187

I get that not everyone is comfortable in full gear. I'm not a fan of mesh and ride with a Fieldsheer knock off of the same pants you wear and my Klim jacket every time I ride. I do wear LDComfort shorts under neath and that eliminates sweat on the skin and irritation with the jewels, (but yeah, it's hot. No venting on those pants). I also get that not everyone wants to spend that kind of coin on underwear. Try picking up some synthetic underwear like UnderArmor or a cheap version of it at a sporting goods store or Walmart, etc. You may be surprised at what that does just by itself. On the Jeans, well, that's a call you have to make, but something with a looser fit that doesn't bind in the crotch is probably going to be more comfortable. Mesh works well in high humidity and for shorter rides in the desert, but dehydrates you too fast to be useful for longer rides.

 

[AVGeek]

I agree with Eric, I ditched cotton skivvies a long time ago, and my riding comfort was so much the better. I also was a 5-year, 2 wheel exclusive commuter in Las Vegas and Phoenix. Alpinestars makes a nice set of mesh overpants that I used for commuting, and even longer trips without as much dehydration as wearing mesh on my upper body. Usually because I was wearing some sort of pants underneath as well that slowed evaporation.

 

[Defekticon]

In my experience with street bikes what you get with the bike is a "starter" seat. It is a seat to use to get you to your seat customizer/provider who will fix it/sell one to fit you. I plan to pick up an ST this morning. I could tell in a 20 mile test ride that this seat would be no exception. Normally I go straight to Russell but this bike is too tall for me already so I will look for a way to lower the seat height while increasing comfort. 5'7", 170#, 29" inseam. Over the last 10 years I have used Bill Mayer Sr. and Jr., Corbin, Sargent, Seth Laam, Seat Concepts, Spencer, Russell, Airhawk and Freedom Air. Russell is by far the best for long distance riding but the wings that provide side and thigh support force you to slide forward when stopping if you want to put a foot down. The Russell also adds an inch to your existing seat height. For me on the ST that would make the ground unreachable and also make me feel like I was riding a horse. Right now I am thinking Sargent, hopefully they have a low model and using the Freedom Air cushion.

29 inch inseam here. When I bought my bike and couldn't flat foot it I immediately had to find a solution. Lower seat, lowering links, custom shock... In the end I realized that flat footing the bike wasn't as important as proper suspension geometry, ride height and a comfy seat. I did end up with a shorter Cogent Dynamics shock that Rick built 1 inch shorter for my inseam with the RDL seat. When I had lowering links on the bike I hated the turn in, and wasn't about to lower the forks. I took the links off, had the cogent shock built, and learned to lean the bike on one leg when I needed to stop. I'm significantly more confident throwing the weight of the bike around at this point, and I've considered getting a normal length shock to get my ride height back to stock.

I still have to slide forward to get my foot down on the RDL, annoying at first but it's a trade off for a comfortable riding position. it's a natural operation at this point to stop. Saw a seat concepts low seat at Romney this weekend which looked interesting. Was offered to try it out while I was there, but already had a beer in my hand and wasn't about to hop on the bike. Might be something I give a shot in the future just to see how it compares to the RDL.

 

[EricV]

In the end I realized that flat footing the bike wasn't as important as proper suspension geometry, ride height and a comfy seat.

::012::

When I had lowering links on the bike I hated the turn in, and wasn't about to lower the forks.

This points to a problem. You need to lower the forks, (raise them in the triple trees), 13mm to balance the 1" drop in the rear of the lowering links. Of course the handling sucked! You didn't balance the front to the rear. Taller rear = quicker turn in. Lower rear = slower turn in. I'm sure it handled like a dog the way you had it set up. This info has been posted on the forum for years. When I lowered my Super Ten so my wife could try it, I searched the forum and found the 13mm info. The bike road and handled just as it did before lowering. Thanks to those that researched and tried different adjustments before and shared that info on the forum. ::008::

There is a strange myth about putting feet down on a motorcycle. I say myth, because no one rides a motorcycle with their feet on the ground. Stopping is just as much about technique as riding. Learned technique. You have learned the technique to use with your RDL and it's less of an issue now. Same can be said of other combinations of rider and bike set up.

 

[mebgardner]

For what it's worth, the AltRider modification that they worked with ROX Speed to develop for using 2" pivot risers on the Super Ten w/o adding long lines does work. You don't need to buy their kit, but it's cheap if you want to. I just did the same thing with items in the garage and it works fine.

I did this install over the weekend. 2016 Non-ES model, and the install went fine. I had enough slack in the clutch, and brake lines, and electrical, to give me needed up 'n back from a set of 2" Rox risers. Nice!

I did notice the rubber mounted steering risers in the triple tree, were slightly loose. I discovered this while doing the right to left to right, limit-to-limit testing. The bars would "cant" to one side and look "crooked", and then change to the opposite "crooked" on the other side / limit. I grabbed the 14mm and tightened up those fasteners, then the bars did not wiggle anymore.

 

[Defekticon]

I did this install over the weekend. 2016 Non-ES model, and the install went fine. I had enough slack in the clutch, and brake lines, and electrical, to give me needed up 'n back from a set of 2" Rox risers. Nice!

I did notice the rubber mounted steering risers in the triple tree, were slightly loose. I discovered this while doing the right to left to right, limit-to-limit testing. The bars would "cant" to one side and look "crooked", and then change to the opposite "crooked" on the other side / limit. I grabbed the 14mm and tightened up those fasteners, then the bars did not wiggle anymore.

You can also install 5/8th inch washers over the rubber mounts and that helps to firm them up as well.

 

[mebgardner]

OK, thanks. Good to know, next time I'm in there...

 

[nico_yyz]

not much I would change.


currently on a 16 ES.


*slightly bigger tank would be nice

 

[ADKsuper10]

I did this install over the weekend. 2016 Non-ES model, and the install went fine. I had enough slack in the clutch, and brake lines, and electrical, to give me needed up 'n back from a set of 2" Rox risers. Nice!

I did notice the rubber mounted steering risers in the triple tree, were slightly loose. I discovered this while doing the right to left to right, limit-to-limit testing. The bars would "cant" to one side and look "crooked", and then change to the opposite "crooked" on the other side / limit. I grabbed the 14mm and tightened up those fasteners, then the bars did not wiggle anymore.

Thinking about doing this as well. Even though I have long arms (36" sleeve) It feels like I reach a tad too much to the bars on my 2015.