New member with rim runout question

[flash]

Three months ago I purchased a new 2016 ES model. I just turned over 4000 miles on it. The bike has always seemed to have excessive head shake. You can feel light vibration in the bars while holding on. If you release one of the bars at any speed over 25 mph the bars have about a inch or so shake. Is this normal? I have never had any bike with this much shake.

The tire seems to be wearing normally with no cupping. I have had many loose spokes. At first service there was about half of them loose. I then checked every 1000 miles and about a dozen were loose. I did the 4000 mile service last weekend and found none loose.

Neither wheel had any wheel weights on them. Not wanting to take the wheels off and balance I added Counteract Balancing beads front and rear. This did nothing for the head shake.

Decided to check the wheel runout yesterday and borrowed a dial indicator. The front Axial runout was .190 inch and the rear was .150 inch. The service manual does not give any values for runout; just says to true if runout is excessive. While the runout is not what I would like to see, I don't think it is real excessive.

What do you guys think? This is maybe more of an irritation than a problem?

I have never tried to true a rim without taking the tire off. Has anyone ever tried with a tire on? Don't want to go to the trouble to taking the tires off at this point.

 

[Dogdaze]

::004::, and I think your problem is a loose head stem nut, there have been threads on this, others will chime in but look up on the search function, I would but have to run out,sorry.

 

[Ron Earp]

Second that.

Mine is rock steady. I can cruise on a smooth freeway with hands off the handlebars, no problem.

Wheel removal is easy. Don't be afraid to do it.

 

[silvergoose]

Check with the dealer first, if the head bearings are loose and the wheels are out of round, action needs to be taken. Are you using a torque wrench to tighten the spokes to 6Nm? If you have tightened the spokes without the torque wrench that could add to the runout. When you check the head bearings remember the nut on the bottom of the triple clamp as well as the fork pinch bolts.

Good Luck

 

[flash]

Yes I used a Snap On torque wrench set at 53 in/lbs. I tightened going to different positions on the rim in an attempt not to change the runout. However, many were very loose requiring several turns to tighten. It is very possible that I could of changed the runout some as more than 1/2 needed tightened on first check.

I have not checked the steering stem nuts other than put on the center stand and jacked up front end and shaked. There appeared to be no looseness; but maybe I'll source the proper wrench and torque them.

Thanks for all the replys.

 

[Kevhunts]

Decided to check the wheel runout yesterday and borrowed a dial indicator. The front Axial runout was .190 inch and the rear was .150 inch. The service manual does not give any values for runout; just says to true if runout is excessive. While the runout is not what I would like to see, I don't think it is real excessive.

Manual calls for 2mm or .080" for front & rear rims both radial & lateral run out.

 

[markjenn]

I don't know if it is contributing to your steering wobble, but your rim runouts seem excessive to me. What I think has happened is that all the spoke tensioning that has been done, you've ended up with a wheel that badly needs truing. Assuming that your spoke nipples move freely and the threads are clean on the spokes (big assumptions), equal spoke torques will get you into the ballpark for a true rim, but when you start making large changes like you've done, you really need to have the wheel trued. Due to mfg tolerances, some imbalance in spoke tension is necessary and required to get a true rim. I think Yamaha's publishing of a torque standard for the spokes has lead to an over-reliance on these torques as the end-all in wheel maintenance. And there are a lot of problems using spoke torque as a surrogate for spoke tension.

For steering wobble, the first thing to check is your steering head bearings.

Finding someone at a dealership who is "old school" enough who can properly true a rim may be an issue. This is something that is often done at a wheel specialist but it would be on your dime. If you have a good wheel stand (e.g., like the type that is used to balance wheels), you can DIY as it is not rocket science. I build bicycle wheels and the principles are the same.

- Mark

 

[flash]

I'm thinking now that I don't understand how to calculate rim run out. If you use a dial indicator and find that the high side is .100 inch higher that the lowest point, does this mean that your runout is .050 inch? If so, I misstated my runout. It would be .095 inch for the front and .075 inch for the rear.

 

[Kevhunts]

I'm thinking now that I don't understand how to calculate rim run out. If you use a dial indicator and find that the high side is .100 inch higher that the lowest point, does this mean that your runout is .050 inch? If so, I misstated my runout. It would be .095 inch for the front and .075 inch for the rear.

No that would means your run out is .100" provided you are certain you are checking from the lowest to highest point.

Lateral is left to right and radial is up & down. Need to check them both.

 

[flash]

Thanks for all the replies!

Today I trued the front wheel and it completely removed all the shake in the front end and handlebars. I think most of this was self inflicted by not using good technique when torqueing the spokes.

The rear wheel needs truing as well, but that will have to wait for another day.

Yesterday I did order the proper tool to torque the steering stem nut. I'll check the torque on that nut as well, but this appears to have cured the problem.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Good work and welcome to the club!

 

[Kevhunts]

Glad you got it sorted out. ::012:: ::004::

 

[Cycledude]

EXCELENT JOB !!!

 

[colorider]

Glad it worked out for you and ::004:: to the forum!