New engine vibrations bad gas? Or something else? On the road, need suggestions.

[cory1848]

Continued altitude problem

I had posted a thread about an issue I had last year with my cross country trip through Colorado with my bike 2013 with it performing like crap in the mountains which resolves itself back at sea level. Bike spent 2 weeks at dealer (sea level) with no resolution. Fast forward to now, with no issues until I hit 5000 feet. Then all of the same symptoms return. Bike won't idle, pull clutch in and it dies. Or it revs to a very high idle at 3-4000rpms and is stuck there. Had to shut off bike and cycle the key to get it back down to 1100. Bike is running hot as well. 60 degrees at 5000 feet here in North Carolina and its running at 216 degrees with fan on while moving. This is becoming a safety concern as well. With throttle sticking at 4000 rpm, going down hill it pushes me while in corners. Dropping back down under 3000 feet bike starts acting normal again.

With all that... I think my ongoing issue is with a sensor. Is there a sensor that measure altitude that controls the ECU for fueling adjustments? If so, how to test that? When I get back to Florida next week and bring it back to dealer, they most likely will find nothing wrong again.

Also is there a reset procedure I can do to force the bike to read current temps/altitude etc? Thought I read that cycling the key a number of time does something like that but not sure. I love this bike if this continues I may have to part ways with it. I would hate to do that over a simple sensor issue or the likes.

Thoughts and suggestions appreciated.

Cory

 

[cory1848]

Bring this post back as this issue has happened yet again. I believe it is an altitude issue. Currently in North Carolina mountains and riding up Mt Mitchell, 6500 feet and bike ran like shit. Would not idle, either dies at idle or gets stuck at 4000rpms. Had to turn off bike to get it back down. Cycling the key helped but it still is not 100%. Rode 800 miles with no issues and once I get above 5000 feet, its crap. Bike running hot again, idle all over the place to the point where it pushes me through corners cause it gets stuck at 4000rpms. Becoming a safety issue.

I think this is a faulty sensor issue but not sure how to prove that. Is there a sensor that affect altitude? If so, How can this be tested? Also is there a reset procedure I can do to force the bike to read current temps/altitude etc? Thought I read that cycling the key a number of time does something like that but not sure. I love this bike if this continues I may have to part ways with it. I would hate to do that over a simple sensor issue or the likes.

 

[Dogdaze]

I know cars have a 'mass air sensor', don't know if that is true for motorcycles, it could be that, I was under the impression that EFI could modulate with altitude and fuelling actually gets better with high altitude..........................
Perhaps someone with more knowledge of these bikes could clear that up?

 

[Koinz]

There is a sensor mounted on the front side of the throttle bodies. They call it an AP'S sensor (air pressure sensor).
Not sure if it takes vacuum directly from the throttle body or if the is a vacuum line coming off it. If there's a vacuum hose, it could be as simple as reconnecting it or it's a bad sensor.

I didn't read your entire thread, but do you get any codes during poor running at altitude?

 

[La Knee]

Re: Continued altitude problem

Maybe try a power Comander 5 with the auto tune ? Good luck

 

[cory1848]

No codes appearing or stored. I assume you have to lift the tank to get to that sensor?

 

[Koinz]

No codes appearing or stored. I assume you have to lift the tank to get to that sensor?

Most likely and maybe the air box too.

 

[Ron Earp]

I'm new to the ST but have been tuning and wrenching on EFI engines for a long time. There for sure will be a barometric pressure or manifold pressure sensor on the bike and if this sensor cannot accurately measure the air pressure the ECU will command improper fueling leading to missing and poor throttle response. That you've observed this with changes in altitude is very suggestive that this sensor is faulty or intermittently failing. See if you can simply buy a new one and replace as there is no fix for them. Remove and replace is generally the only troubleshooting method unless you have a real-time tuner and can observe the sensor output or if you know expected voltages for various conditions and check with meter.

 

[Koinz]

I wasn't near a computer that I could attach a picture, but this should clear it up. It's #1 in the picture.

 

[Don in Lodi]

Sitting on the bike the sensor is mounted at the left rear of the throttle body pair. You can get a peek at it from down low on the left, at least see if the hoses are attached. In the automotive world that's a MAP sensor, Manifold Absolute Pressure. On key turn to run it will do a barometric reading too, gets an idea for altitude/air density. Picture the 'range' that it operates in as a tabletop, only when the readings fall off the edge does a code set. Meanwhile the numbers can vary a fair amount from perfect.

 

[cory1848]

Think I will try the sensor replacement, if I can source one. Have to wait until Tuesday though dealers closed for the holiday weekend.

Going to try the harness separation thing as well. Have to pull airbag though so hopefully i can do that in the parking lot with minimal tools.

 

[cory1848]

Ok so I just completed the fix provided here

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=17952.0

So far so good. Took about 1.5 hours to do in the parking lot and 25 minutes of that was finding the right tools. I am currently staying at 5000 feet and the road coming into this area starts at 3200 feet. Went up and down the road twice and the bike performs beautifully. Gets warm on the way up and cools down on the way down as it should. Fan didn't need to kick on either. Idle did not stick at all and sat at 1100 when clutch pulled in.

I am cautiously optimistic. Real test comes tomorrow when back to Mt Mitchell at 6500 feet. Will report back the results then.

 

[cory1848]

Interesting. This fix seemed to fix the issue. No more overheating high or low idle or stuck idle and fuel economy is good as well. Very pleased so far. Did the same route up to 6500 feet that caused my first issues and the bike ran beautifully.

Only issue is that about 30 miles after that I stopped at an overlook and the bike would not start. All the symptoms of a dead battery. Slow turn over and clicking with starter. Getting ready to bump start it and tried one last time and it fired right up. Did this once before on my trip last year when I was having all of these issues. Will try and get battery load tested. What would cause symptoms of dead battery without it actually being a bad battery?

 

[AVGeek]

Interesting. This fix seemed to fix the issue. No more overheating high or low idle or stuck idle and fuel economy is good as well. Very pleased so far. Did the same route up to 6500 feet that caused my first issues and the bike ran beautifully.

Only issue is that about 30 miles after that I stopped at an overlook and the bike would not start. All the symptoms of a dead battery. Slow turn over and clicking with starter. Getting ready to bump start it and tried one last time and it fired right up. Did this once before on my trip last year when I was having all of these issues. Will try and get battery load tested. What would cause symptoms of dead battery without it actually being a bad battery?

Could possibly be the connections at the battery. They have been known to come loose and emulate a bad battery intermittently.

 

[ExTriumphExp]

Ok so I just completed the fix provided here

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=17952.0

So far so good. Took about 1.5 hours to do in the parking lot and 25 minutes of that was finding the right tools. I am currently staying at 5000 feet and the road coming into this area starts at 3200 feet. Went up and down the road twice and the bike performs beautifully. Gets warm on the way up and cools down on the way down as it should. Fan didn't need to kick on either. Idle did not stick at all and sat at 1100 when clutch pulled in.

I am cautiously optimistic. Real test comes tomorrow when back to Mt Mitchell at 6500 feet. Will report back the results then.

Hi Cory..im currently on holiday in france, having symptoms similar to yours, im trying to get the bike running right again & tried to link of your fix but its like "war & peace" & I don have time to read the whole thread. Could you give me the run down on the fix in a reply to this post please? I have noted also that this fault seeme worse when in the hills!

 

[snakebitten]

it's like War and Peace

I spewed a bit of sweet tea at my desk. My colleague asked what's so funny?

I hope your malady is fixed quickly. But you made me laugh. Good luck!

 

[Dogdaze]

Try the wires first, connections, battery post etc......... it has to be a loose connection. I hope you find a quick resolve ::008::

 

[ExTriumphExp]

cheers dogdaze, checked battery pillaars this evening all seemed OK but ya never know with electrikery, all seemed clean & tight with grease but undid & fastened again, same with earth lead to top of engine casing. Also checked throttle body connectors, water temp sensor connections, all seem dry & clean, jus got fingers crossed now & hoping for the best...frustrated aint the word. In hindsight now having now having doubbts on the pressure switch, thought it might be cause as problem started wen climbing over the alsace, been here for a couple of days & appeared ro fix it by removing fuses to re set the ECU as in the hard start problem. Doing this seemed to fix it untill again today when it did it again, got down to Colmar (low altitiude) & problem disapeared in the town... but was still present on the approach, also low alititude. Anoying thing is I was a lot hightt last year in switzerland, Austria & slovenia & it never played up one......