New adventure bikes arrived: wich one to choose?

JaimeV

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
908
Location
Barcelona
Hi guys

Afer a visit to the Eicma motor show in Milano i'm considering to buy a new bike next year. There are many options now but in this post I compare my 5 favourites (English version at the end of the post): http://traildreamer.com/reflexiones-de-un-lisiado-aburrido-que-maxi-trail-escoger/

- Honda Africa Twin
- KTM 1190 Adventure R
- KTM 1290 Super Adventure
- BMW R1200 GS Adventure
- Ducati Multistrada 1200 Enduro

What do you think? ;)












You can't see the Super Tenere because I know I can't build a better one that this sexy beast I had a couple of years ago :p



::003::
 

JRE

Going to hell on scholarship
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
811
Location
Cincinnati OH
I'd say it depends heavily on how you intend to ride it. Some of those are more dirt worthy than others.
 

JaimeV

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
908
Location
Barcelona
JRE said:
I'd say it depends heavily on how you intend to ride it. Some of those are more dirt worthy than others.
Normally I ride most in dirt but as I say in the post this time I would like to have also a lighter bike to dirt so the big cow can be more road oriented
 

Rasher

Active Member
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
1,955
Location
UK
For the Dirt my guess is the Africa Twin - unless Honda have really got it wrong.

For the road I would want the KTM for long distances and touring, or the Ducati if I was not going to venture far from home (i.e. local rides and single days out)
 

markjenn

Active Member
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
2,427
Location
Bellingham, WA
Great time to be buying an adv bike... a plethora of choices, all pretty good.

The new Honda AT is probably the first choice if off-road worthiness is your #1 priority. It is essentially an updated/more-modern Honda interpretation of the KTM 950/990 spec and the early reports are VERY positive. The price is darn good too, especially if you want DCT. People were hoping for 450-lb wet weight (which wasn't realistic) and are disappointed with it being in the low-500's, but its still about the lightest liter-class adv bike so far. But there are some dirt-focused features that make the bike less road-focused, less comfortable, and less suited for touring, particularly the tubed tires/wheels, lack of cruise control (even as an option - early reports are that the bike does NOT have electronic throttles), and chain drive. If you want to try DCT, it's the only game in town. Final consideration is that it isn't due for some time yet and early reports are of very limited availability. Accessories will take some time to develop too. And do you really want the 1st year of a clean-sheet design, even if it is from Honda? Like everybody, they make mistakes too, and the early customers are the final testers.

The KTM's are all great choices if all-around performance is your goal - they manage to be very fun street bikes, but will go off-road about as well as anything short of the new AT. The Super Adventure is to the regular Adventure just about like the GSA is to the GS: more fuel, more standard crash protection, more features, more weight. KTM's work best if the owner is committed to their quirks and is willing to heap extra attention and maintenance on them as they can be finicky. KTM has a tendency to release bikes before they're fully sorted.... for example, the 1190's shipped for quite a while with chronically leaking airboxes that let in a lot of dirt to motors. Supposedly sorted now, but KTM has a bad track record of stuff like this. And you have to deal with the chain drive. At least KTM managed to put tubeless tires on their bikes, even on the 21" front ends.

The Multistrada, like the S1000XR, is really more of pavement sport-touring bike, than an adventure bike. I wouldn't take one anywhere I wouldn't take a pure street bike. But if you want a rip-snorting, comfortable, great-handling bike for road-touring, great choice. Supposedly they finally have sorted the (severe) fuel-delivery glitches of last year. Price is astronomic and reliability can be sketchy. If you look at this bike, you need to look at the S1000XR.

The GS and GSA are the gold standards of the segment. All-arounders that do almost everything very well. Manageable weight given the spec. Good power. Fun to ride. There's really no big downside other than price, and less reliability than the Japanese bikes.

The Super Tenere is a very well sorted package, a good value, and a super touring bike that is pretty friendly on dirt roads IF you're okay with the weight/bulk. It's got all the features for touring: shaft, cruise, 19" front end, tubeless spoke rims, heated grips, etc., and a deep accessory aftermarket. But it has always had the undesirable combo of high weight and low power. It's the good choice if you're interested in big miles and are fine with the weight and "adequate" power. Reliability is probably as good as it gets. But the Honda is probably going to be on a different planet in technical dirt riding.

- Mark
 

Checkswrecks

Ungenear to broked stuff
Staff member
Global Moderator
2011 Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
11,553
Location
Damascus, MD
Something to think about while healing?
::008::


You sold the 1200 Tenere because it was too big and heavy for where you wanted to ride it and found the 660 better. What about staying in a smaller size and getting a KTM 690?
 

Dirt_Dad

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
5,983
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
JRE said:
I'd say it depends heavily on how you intend to ride it.
:D For those of us old timers here there is little doubt how JamieV will ride it. Entertain yourself and look back a few years at the stuff he did while on a Tenere. JamieV astonished us many times with what he was willing to do with the giant beast. Some of it challenging enough to think about doing on an 80cc trail bike he did with the Tenere.

Good luck with whatever you get, JamieV. No doubt you'll make the most of it.
 

JaimeV

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
908
Location
Barcelona
Thanks for your answers guys! ::003::

Rasher said:
For the Dirt my guess is the Africa Twin - unless Honda have really got it wrong.
markjenn said:
The new Honda AT is probably the first choice if off-road worthiness is your #1 priority. It is essentially an updated/more-modern Honda interpretation of the KTM 950/990 spec and the early reports are VERY positive. The price is darn good too, especially if you want DCT. People were hoping for 450-lb wet weight (which wasn't realistic) and are disappointed with it being in the low-500's, but its still about the lightest liter-class adv bike so far. But there are some dirt-focused features that make the bike less road-focused, less comfortable, and less suited for touring, particularly the tubed tires/wheels, lack of cruise control (even as an option - early reports are that the bike does NOT have electronic throttles), and chain drive. If you want to try DCT, it's the only game in town. Final consideration is that it isn't due for some time yet and early reports are of very limited availability. Accessories will take some time to develop too. And do you really want the 1st year of a clean-sheet design, even if it is from Honda? Like everybody, they make mistakes too, and the early customers are the final testers.
Agree with you two. Seem that Honda did it right for people who rides off road.
I'm not interested in the DCT but I will like to try it before have any decision. I try it on asphalt and works great. My major concern is not to have clutch.
If I have it the only thing I will like to improve is to try ro reduce weight. About the power, I will like to try it first, probably it is enough but I'm sure you can have more power from this engine without reduce relliability.
Not very concern about reliability being Honda but my idea is to buy the bike in some months so I hope they can fix any early problems they have.

Rasher said:
For the road I would want the KTM ...
markjenn said:
The KTM's are all great choices if all-around performance is your goal - they manage to be very fun street bikes, but will go off-road about as well as anything short of the new AT. The Super Adventure is to the regular Adventure just about like the GSA is to the GS: more fuel, more standard crash protection, more features, more weight. KTM's work best if the owner is committed to their quirks and is willing to heap extra attention and maintenance on them as they can be finicky. KTM has a tendency to release bikes before they're fully sorted.... for example, the 1190's shipped for quite a while with chronically leaking airboxes that let in a lot of dirt to motors. Supposedly sorted now, but KTM has a bad track record of stuff like this. And you have to deal with the chain drive. At least KTM managed to put tubeless tires on their bikes, even on the 21" front ends.
Both KTM are great. I didn't try the 1290 but all the friends who did it say it is incredible. The 1190R is a beast and really good off road. That one is the only competitor to the Honda out of asphalt.
Yes, two very exciting bikes. The 1190R is a serious contender with the Africa in off road. I rode with it a lot and it is great in off road. I didn't try the 1290 but all the guys I know who did it say it is awesome. More road oriented but not more than our Super Ten (similar or better suspension, ground clearance, weight...) so I hope I can do more or less tha same I did with The Yamaha.
No problem with chain drive, I have it now with my 660 and it is not a big deal. It seems to me that recently KTM is more reliable than years ago...(?)

Rasher said:
.... for long distances and touring, or the Ducati if I was not going to venture far from home (i.e. local rides and single days out)
markjenn said:
The Multistrada, like the S1000XR, is really more of pavement sport-touring bike, than an adventure bike. I wouldn't take one anywhere I wouldn't take a pure street bike. But if you want a rip-snorting, comfortable, great-handling bike for road-touring, great choice. Supposedly they finally have sorted the (severe) fuel-delivery glitches of last year. Price is astronomic and reliability can be sketchy. If you look at this bike, you need to look at the S1000XR.
As soon as I saw the Ducati I felt in love with it. It si sooooooooo sexy!! This is a new version of the Multistrada much dirt oriented. It is not only the addition of some farkles: 200mm suspension, better ground clearance, repositioned food pegs, 30 litres tank... big changes to try to be the anti GSA. My only doubt (apart the price!) is the relliability. I wonder if the new owner (Audi) has worked to improve it.

markjenn said:
The GS and GSA are the gold standards of the segment. All-arounders that do almost everything very well. Manageable weight given the spec. Good power. Fun to ride. There's really no big downside other than price, and less reliability than the Japanese bikes.
The problem I have with both GS and GSA is that I had one and I hate the telelever in off road. Also they are so popular that it seem you can have it as a promotion if you buy something in the supermarket.

markjenn said:
The Super Tenere is a very well sorted package, a good value, and a super touring bike that is pretty friendly on dirt roads IF you're okay with the weight/bulk. It's got all the features for touring: shaft, cruise, 19" front end, tubeless spoke rims, heated grips, etc., and a deep accessory aftermarket. But it has always had the undesirable combo of high weight and low power. It's the good choice if you're interested in big miles and are fine with the weight and "adequate" power. Reliability is probably as good as it gets. But the Honda is probably going to be on a different planet in technical dirt riding.
I had the Super T and I loved a lot. But I don't want another one. I did such a lot of modifications that I know I never can do it again and this will mean I go backwards.
Also I have the feeling that Yamaha has to update this bike if they want to face to competitors, specially in weight.

::003::
 

Roge

Member
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
487
Location
(NEWCASTLE) Stroud, NSW. Australia
Rasher said:
For the Dirt my guess is the Africa Twin - unless Honda have really got it wrong.

For the road I would want the KTM for long distances and touring, or the Ducati if I was not going to venture far from home (i.e. local rides and single days out)
The Duc Enduro has a 19" front wheel, more suspension travel, double sided swinging arm and changed steering angle and is aimed very much at off road touring. The big thing is price, I wouldn't mind betting its on for twice that of the Honda which is $3000 cheaper than the S10 in Australia.
 

Dogdaze

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,040
Location
Solothurn, Switzerland
Roge said:
The Duc Enduro has a 19" front wheel, more suspension travel, double sided swinging arm and changed steering angle and is aimed very much at off road touring. The big thing is price, I wouldn't mind betting its on for twice that of the Honda which is $3000 cheaper than the S10 in Australia.
And I don't believe that the Duke is twice the bike.

I think Honda has done it's homework when it comes to the AT, they did not 'rush to market' with this one, it has been a long time in the making and over a year of rumours and th eodd sighting, so I would imagine the R&D team did what they needed to do to get this bike ready to go.
 

JaimeV

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
908
Location
Barcelona
Checkswrecks said:
Something to think about while healing?
::008::


You sold the 1200 Tenere because it was too big and heavy for where you wanted to ride it and found the 660 better. What about staying in a smaller size and getting a KTM 690?
Yes this is a good way to spend time... ;)

You are right. With the 660 I did solo trips in Morocco and race rallys that I couldn't do with the 1200.
I'm very happy with the 660 and I wouldn't change it for a similar bike as the 690.

But having only the 660 has some problems. To race I had to fix all the navigation instruments, I rode with mousse, big knobby tires... not very suitable to go shopping to Barcelona ::005::
This is why I would like to have two bikes.

If my dream came possible the project is to have a new WR450 '16 to convert in a light trail/race bike. So I can do hard off road trips or the rally races with it. The big bike is being to be for touring or soft off road trips.

::003::

Dirt_Dad said:
:D For those of us old timers here there is little doubt how JamieV will ride it. Entertain yourself and look back a few years at the stuff he did while on a Tenere. JamieV astonished us many times with what he was willing to do with the giant beast. Some of it challenging enough to think about doing on an 80cc trail bike he did with the Tenere.

Good luck with whatever you get, JamieV. No doubt you'll make the most of it.
You are very kind but since then I am getting older an I need to make things easy ;) ::003::

Ramseybella said:
That Honda has nice lines, the BMW still looks like the Nostromo Hulk of a bike!
Agree! ;)
 

JaimeV

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
908
Location
Barcelona
Roge said:
The Duc Enduro has a 19" front wheel, more suspension travel, double sided swinging arm and changed steering angle and is aimed very much at off road touring. The big thing is price, I wouldn't mind betting its on for twice that of the Honda which is $3000 cheaper than the S10 in Australia.
Dogdaze said:
And I don't believe that the Duke is twice the bike.

I think Honda has done it's homework when it comes to the AT, they did not 'rush to market' with this one, it has been a long time in the making and over a year of rumours and th eodd sighting, so I would imagine the R&D team did what they needed to do to get this bike ready to go.
The Ducati is in another league.
They are in the "premium" sector, to these who are looking for a GS but they like to be different to the rest. Price is another factor of "status" 8)
We, Tenere lovers can't understand them ::001::
 

maddog5150

Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
483
Location
Chicago-ish (NW Indiana)
Im just excited to see what you do with whatever you buy! No doubt it will be damn sexy and all of us will get to drool over the sweet pics you'll post of it. :).
 

JaimeV

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
908
Location
Barcelona
maddog5150 said:
Im just excited to see what you do with whatever you buy! No doubt it will be damn sexy and all of us will get to drool over the sweet pics you'll post of it. :).
Too many expectation!! :D

I don't think I'm going to do such big conversions in the new bike because I need to invest in two bikes. Too many expenses!! ::)

(until I win the lottery) ::008::
 

markjenn

Active Member
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
2,427
Location
Bellingham, WA
I'd have my name on a the waiting list for the AT in a heartbeat except for the tubed tires. I do a lot of touring and like the idea of a bike that has less weight/bulk than the S10 and is a little more manageable on the occasional fire road and greasy backwoods hill. The chain, lack of cruise, etc. are all things I can live with. But the idea of carrying tire irons, dismounting wheels, etc. to fix simple foreign-object road punctures just doesn't fly with me anymore.... unfortunately for me, it's a complete deal breaker, and all the aftermarket tubeless solutions have significant reliability and safety issues.

I'm hopeful that perhaps Honda will release a slightly more road-oriented version of the bike with tubeless (and perhaps a 19" front end), but I'm not optimistic as Honda has made such a strong commitment to the off-road prowess of the AT that adding back any more road-oriented features would be diluting the message. (Personally, I don't think tubes make any sense on anything other than a very lightweight hard-core dirt bike, but others disagree.)

- Mark
 

78YZ

Life is Good
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Messages
549
Location
08003
markjenn said:
But the idea of carrying tire irons, dismounting wheels, etc. to fix simple foreign-object road punctures just doesn't fly with me anymore.... unfortunately for me, it's a complete deal breaker, and all the aftermarket tubeless solutions have significant reliability and safety issues... Personally, I don't think tubes make any sense on anything other than a very lightweight hard-core dirt bike, but others disagree.

- Mark

I agree. Tubed tires on a liter bike make no sense to me.
 

Checkswrecks

Ungenear to broked stuff
Staff member
Global Moderator
2011 Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
11,553
Location
Damascus, MD
I was wondering if the TuBliss system would work but both Honda rims are too wide for any of the TuBliss products. Too bad. Wonder how long till Woody or somebody else has a rim and spoke replacement?
 

JaimeV

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
908
Location
Barcelona
If you do real off road trips have tubeless doesn't mean anything.
I had tubeless in my GSA and Super Tenere and luckily I allways carry tubes and tools as I finish most of my trips with a tube in it.
 
Top