My quandary

[triman11427]

Hi all. New to the forum as I'm in the market for a new ride. I sat on a Tenere at the NY MC show last year and I really liked it. I already have a couple of bikes so the price held me back. I'm commuting on a V Strom 650 which is done to the hilt. I just did a 1700 mile loop through WV and VA and really enjoyed riding the Strom in the twisties. It's the long rides on the interstate that aren't too much fun. So I've returned to the S10. Sat on the Triumph Explorer and 1200 GS as well. I like to do my own maintainence and it looks like the Ten would be much easier to wrench. The problem is I can't seem to get a test ride on any of these bikes. Obviously any forum you read will espouse how wonderful their bike is. Of course all the reviews on the Internet are biased in some way. My other bike is a Harley Road Glide which weighs over 800lbs so saying the large Adventure bikes are heavy is a relative term. Just like reading a bike has a lot of vibration. If you're coming off a Goldwing everything has a lot of vibration. I rarely go off road so this bike will be used for commuting in stop and go traffic as well as 400+ mile days. Anyone have any constructive words of advice or personal experience to help direct me in this decision? I realize this is a very common dilemma. Try not to be too harsh.

 

[coastie]

My quandary

You won't have any trouble chewing up the freeway miles.

 

[Jerry]

The great thing about the Tenere is if you come upon a dirt road, trail or forest service road you can decide to venture down it and do some exploring. I certainly don't race it and am not skilled enough to do the big trail blazing adventure ride we all would like to do but knowing this bike can handle it is pretty cool. I looked at the 3-4 choices for the adventure bike and decided on the Tenere primarily due to up front cost and ease of maintenance. This forum is fantastic and there are a lot of guys here that are more than willing to help out on certain issues should they arise.

Good luck,

 

[markjenn]

Sounds like you're a good candidate for the bike. My only caution is to tell you that I owned a DL650 and while the S10 is a better freeway machine, it's not night/day better. So you have to have reasonable expectations here. And the Triumph is probably a slightly better highway bike, especially with the cruise control.

I'd focus on getting that test ride. Most folks love the bike, but you occasionally get someone who it just doesn't appeal to. If you give the specifics of your location, I suspect a volunteer will surface to allow you to get a good test ride in. Or cast a wider net with respect to dealers.

- Mark

 

[triman11427]

Thanks for the responses. I'm in Melville,NY, on Long Island. I'm surprised the 1200 isn't a dramatic difference from the 650. Also the additional weight and better brakes should make this perform all around better than my Wee. I've heard the Explorer is better on the road but it's also 2K more expensive. I'm entertaining a pre owned S10. More bang for the buck.

 

[markjenn]

I'm surprised the 1200 isn't a dramatic difference from the 650. Also the additional weight and better brakes should make this perform all around better than my Wee.

It's all subjective, but I thought my DL650, with properly-sorted screen, was a pretty decent freeway bike. You may feel differently. I'm not sure the S10 has markedly better brakes (and the S10 has 100+ lbs extra to stop); it does have much better suspension, but that shows up in the twisties and bumpy roads more than the freeway.

Likewise, the S10 is a faster bike, but not a whole lot faster. It's definitely torquier. The power-to-weight ratios are not very much different so initial acceleration is similar; as speed builds the S10's horsepower advantage wins out and it has a 10-15 mph higher top end. But its not night/day different. Again, weight conspires against the S10. Some rationalize it away, but I think the S10's weight is its Achilles heel.

I sound negative about the S10, but I think it is more that I am very positive about the DL650, especially the new model - IMHO it is quite possibly the finest all-around middle-weight bike ever made. The S10 is definitely a more sophisticated bike, has shaft drive, and IS more capable overall. But the S10 also speaks to the same "not brilliant at anything, good at everything" mission as the DL650 and to some, that makes it a boring droner of a bike. If you're getting out of your DL650 because you think it is too plebeian, be aware the the same criticism is often made of the S10, notably by Multistrada owners who do own an exciting mount.

And if you're really looking for bike that is heavily optimized for the highway mission, I think the Explorer (or the new Honda CrossTourer if you live in an area where it is available) is worth the extra dough. The Triumph is smoother, much more powerful, and has the cruise.

Again, you need to ride an S10 and draw your own conclusion. You'll probably love it, but you may hate it.

- Mark

 

[MidlifeMotor]

I rode the Triumph and the 1200 GS at the same dealer. I could not find anywhere that would let me test ride a S10. I bought it strictly on the reviews and the feedback from this forum. I have been thrilled beyond expectations with the S10. However, I knew my ultimate goal was to do a lot of off-road riding and I couldn't afford the GS.

You can't go wrong with either the Triumph or the S10. I would lean toward the Triumph if you are not going off-road, although you say you want to wrench a lot so the S10 would be an advantage. I wouldn't sweat the decision too much, you will be happy either way.

::021::

 

[Dirt_Dad]

I'm surprised the 1200 isn't a dramatic difference from the 650.

My wife will tell you a different story. She previously has a 1" lowered DL650. Now rides a 1" lowered S10. She feels dramatically more stable on the S10. She'll tell you it handles far better and is way less top heavy than the DL650. She does stuff on the S10 she would never do on the Wee. On the highway it's much more relaxed, and the tractor trailer slip stream is no longer noticeable to her. It used to really bother her.

The Wee is a great bike, we've had two of them. But in my not always so humble opinion it's far out classed by the S10.

 

[fredz43]

My son has a 09 DL650A and loves it. We usually take a couple long trips together each year. In June, we did 4500 miles to Colorado and back. Naturally on these trips we trade bikes once in a while. I think the Wee may be one of the best handling bikes there is on twisty mountain roads. My S10 does wonderfully, but the smaller, lighter Wee does have the edge, in my opinion. The shortcoming that I experience right away are the brakes aren't nearly as good as the S10. Before this recent trip we put some HH rated pads on and it helped a bit, but I always find myself squeezing very hard on the brakes when I ride the Wee. While the Wee will run right along with me at 80 mph or more on the interstates, it does get blown around a bit in the wake of big trucks, whereas I don't notice the effect on my S10. Sometimes we will be following a big rig and I am not having a problem taking my time to get around he will call me on our G9 headsets and ask me to hurry and get around as the turbulance. is moving him around. He has a Givi screen on a Madstadt bracket and has a slight edge on wind protection compared to my MRA Vario on an adjustable Wasp bracket.

When he rides my bike, he says he is most impressed with the power. When he gets back on his Wee he says it feels smaller than he remembered it being. I think that for the money the DL650 is a wonderful bike and may be the best midsize adventure style bike available, but in my opinion the S10 is quite a step up overall.

 

[3putt]

I'm one of the Multistrata 1200 owners that moved to the Super Tenere, and I agree at times it gives me the feeling of a toyota pickup, you know just toss your stuff in the back and go. The Multi12 was 50 lbs lighter and sharper in handling and of course that HP! Bottom line I wanted to go to Alaska, no brainer in that I made the right choice. Easy to work on another big plus, the poor Multi12 has an invisible umbilical cord attached to the nearest dealer and their computer.

 

[coastie]

Actually if you like to wrench beyond farkling the S10 is not for you. Its never going to break down. Your not going to have anything to wrench on ::025::

 

[triman11427]

I'm wondering if it's a significant upgrade worth the hit ill take on selling my Wee flter 1 year of ownership.

 

[snakebitten]

My quandary

It's all subjective, but I thought my DL650, with properly-sorted screen, was a pretty decent freeway bike. You may feel differently. I'm not sure the S10 has markedly better brakes (and the S10 has 100+ lbs extra to stop); it does have much better suspension, but that shows up in the twisties and bumpy roads more than the freeway.

Likewise, the S10 is a faster bike, but not a whole lot faster. It's definitely torquier. The power-to-weight ratios are not very much different so initial acceleration is similar; as speed builds the S10's horsepower advantage wins out and it has a 10-15 mph higher top end. But its not night/day different. Again, weight conspires against the S10. Some rationalize it away, but I think the S10's weight is its Achilles heel.

I sound negative about the S10, but I think it is more that I am very positive about the DL650, especially the new model - IMHO it is quite possibly the finest all-around middle-weight bike ever made. The S10 is definitely a more sophisticated bike, has shaft drive, and IS more capable overall. But the S10 also speaks to the same "not brilliant at anything, good at everything" mission as the DL650 and to some, that makes it a boring droner of a bike. If you're getting out of your DL650 because you think it is too plebeian, be aware the the same criticism is often made of the S10, notably by Multistrada owners who do own an exciting mount.

And if you're really looking for bike that is heavily optimized for the highway mission, I think the Explorer (or the new Honda CrossTourer if you live in an area where it is available) is worth the extra dough. The Triumph is smoother, much more powerful, and has the cruise.

Again, you need to ride an S10 and draw your own conclusion. You'll probably love it, but you may hate it.

- Mark

One of the "fairest" assessments of all the bikes mentioned that I have seen posted.
At least I found myself nodding in agreement throughout.

I only differ on one thing. The test ride.

I suppose MOST of us yanks did not test drive before purchasing. (PDP wise anyways) And if we had, I wonder how many of us would have had second thoughts?

I just think it is one of those bikes that CAN make a disappointing first impression.

And even after you put enough miles on one to discover what a remarkable engineering success it really is, I am in agreement with Mark that if you are solely tarmac bound, it just might not be the best of the choices mentioned. (although if 2-up is important, even on tarmac, I'm back to the S10)

And although I never have owned an DL, I was a huge fan of the naked SV650. One of the sweetest mid sized bikes of all time. My nephew has it now. He BEGGED me to sell it to him for so long that I finally gave in. I don't sell or trade. I collect. I miss that bike!

 

[GrahamD]

... but I think the S10's weight is its Achilles heel.

That's the only thing I will disagree with. The S10 weighs the about the same as the Explorer, GSA, Stelvio NTX, less than the XTourer.

They have not tried to make a big bike too light.

Where I think the DL650 does really well, is the fact that it has kept the weight down by wrapping a full sized chassis around a small-ish light motor, rather than trying to make a big bike with a big motor light. That's where I think a hell of a lot of intellectualizing has gone on. Making excuses as to why it's not an issue that things break on a very expensive big bike made too light. The DL series rarely break. They have ENOUGH power to do the job. The weight saving were obtained but not going overboard in the power and motor, and therefore transmission. Not by shaving things too thin.

I think that the whole 1200cc thing is too much bike generally and that is the problem. Where I praise YAMAHA is taking that marketable size bike, keeping it real and using some good tradeoffs to keep it as real as possible in as many situations as possible.

Yes the whole thing may be too compromised for those that never need 1/2 of the "adventure" experience but for those that do I am glad there is the possibility of buying a Tourer that will handle all types of terrain without having to worry about things busting. And the people who want to look the part but don't want the compromises well they are very well served as well. If all that matters is power to weight and sharp handling then by all means buy a sports bike, even a jacked up one. At least they actually fit most humans.

 

[EricV]

I'm wondering if it's a significant upgrade worth the hit ill take on selling my Wee flter 1 year of ownership.

Probably not. Since you're only riding street and have no plans to go off pavement, have you looked at the Kawi Verseys? Similar upright seating, but designed as a street bike.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you find lacking in the DL650 for the riding you are doing. Can you elaborate?

 

[MNs10]

I'm a little puzzled by the some of the posts...but perception is reality and it isn't the same for everyone.

I bought a 650 strom last spring (2011) and put 14,000 miles on it. I traded it in on the Tenere.

IMO if you look at the Wee as good on the freeway/the S10 is great. Way more planted and at much greater speed. 'Escsape' power on the Wee is lacking at freeway speeds and two up even more so...non issue on the S10, it's solid at any speed and two up...you mean someone is behind me? The Wee has good smooth acceleration through the gears but I didn't find it anywhere near the S10. Turn off traction control, place the S10 in sport mode and go wfo and the rear tire breaks traction, the front end comes up...no clutch slip needed. Wee takes off drama free...nothing wrong that.

Slow speed maneuvers...I prefer the S10 all day. I don't care what the spec sheet shows for weight, the S10 crawls better.

Twisty roads...The Wee is fun and capable here, enough so that you can spank the wanna bees on sport bikes but one thing I noticed right away after getting the S10 is how much more solid it felt. No fork flex/wiggle, no nothing, just more or less lean angle without any jiggle. The first time I took the S10 to my favorite little warm up corners I couldn't believe that I was going 5 mile an hour faster than what it would have felt like on the Wee - what I mean by that is if I was just out having some safe corner fun (75%-ing it), I was going that much faster on the S10 without realizing it. That's how much more solid feeling the S10 is to me.

The Wee is a great bike, amazing really, but it is no Tenere. In fact, I don't think there is much of a comparison between the two except in size/type/purpose. If I couldn't afford the S10 it would be back to the Wee without any comparison shopping or hesitation. If the money is not an issue, you get more of everything with the S10 except mpg's.

 

[MidlifeMotor]

I'm a little puzzled by the some of the posts...but perception is reality and it isn't the same for everyone.

I bought a 650 strom last spring (2011) and put 14,000 miles on it. I traded it in on the Tenere.

IMO if you look at the Wee as good on the freeway/the S10 is great. Way more planted and at much greater speed. 'Escsape' power on the Wee is lacking at freeway speeds and two up even more so...non issue on the S10, it's solid at any speed and two up...you mean someone is behind me? The Wee has good smooth acceleration through the gears but I didn't find it anywhere near the S10. Turn off traction control, place the S10 in sport mode and go wfo and the rear tire breaks traction, the front end comes up...no clutch slip needed. Wee takes off drama free...nothing wrong that.

Slow speed maneuvers...I prefer the S10 all day. I don't care what the spec sheet shows for weight, the S10 crawls better.

Twisty roads...The Wee is fun and capable here, enough so that you can spank the wanna bees on sport bikes but one thing I noticed right away after getting the S10 is how much more solid it felt. No fork flex/wiggle, no nothing, just more or less lean angle without any jiggle. The first time I took the S10 to my favorite little warm up corners I couldn't believe that I was going 5 mile an hour faster than what it would have felt like on the Wee - what I mean by that is if I was just out having some safe corner fun (75%-ing it), I was going that much faster on the S10 without realizing it. That's how much more solid feeling the S10 is to me.

The Wee is a great bike, amazing really, but it is no Tenere. In fact, I don't think there is much of a comparison between the two except in size/type/purpose. If I couldn't afford the S10 it would be back to the Wee without any comparison shopping or hesitation. If the money is not an issue, you get more of everything with the S10 except mpg's.

Great post MNs10. Very informative and well written. But the OP was asking for comparisons among the Triumph/BMW 1200 GS/Tenere. He already has a V strom and was looking for a bigger bike. I am fortunate to be able to afford a Tenere at this time, however I would be just fine on a V strom or other similar bike. My first bike when I started riding last year was a V star 650. Despite the snubs from big bike riders I rode with, I kept up just fine. Yeah it screamed a little more, but it was a blast to ride.

 

[cesarb]

I am surprised that there is no dealer there in Long Is. that will allow a demo on the Super Tenere. In NJ, there are 2 near me. Action Yamaha and Xtreme Machine.

 

[MNs10]

Great post MNs10. Very informative and well written. But the OP was asking for comparisons among the Triumph/BMW 1200 GS/Tenere. He already has a V strom and was looking for a bigger bike. I am fortunate to be able to afford a Tenere at this time, however I would be just fine on a V strom or other similar bike. My first bike when I started riding last year was a V star 650. Despite the snubs from big bike riders I rode with, I kept up just fine. Yeah it screamed a little more, but it was a blast to ride.

Thanks.

I understand what the OP was asking for but considering he hasn't riden any of the bikes in question and I thought the others missed the mark on the bike the OP knows (wee), I provided my view...a bit gently.

Less gently:
The braking difference between the wee and S10 is night and day. On rough pavement stops the abs on the wee would case it to hesitate or pause its' stopping power. On the same rough road areas I don't notice anything from the S10 except it stops without the hesitation. The rear brake on the wee...no comparison at all, the s10 feels like it is doing something without standing on it. In overall stoping power there may not be a huge difference but I don't think they are in the same leauge feel wise or with the amount of force needed to do the same 'slowing'.

I do some gravel roads, the S10 is better here as everywhere. So my S10 is basically a road bike (like it sounds like the OP's next bike will be) and again, I don't think the wee can hold a candle to it on the highway, in red light districts, while accelerating, stopping or even on twisty back roads.

I think the issue with perception on the wee is because it is so loved. I was really worried when I bought the s10 (without a test ride). Is it going to be that much better than the wee? Am I going to regret this switch? I was thrilled to death after spending time on the s10...I loved my wee but I don't consider the S10 a small step up, I consider it a leap. The wee is good, the s10 is all that much better.

OP, If you like your wee, the odds are very good you will love the s10. Similar to what someone else said earlier: if you like to wrench, the s10 may not be for you. There isn't anything to do with it except change the oil and ride it. 26,600 valve checks!

 

[triman11427]

You guys are great and really nailed what I was asking. I'm looking for improved performance without any drama. I want to sit behind a truck and not think about the buffeting. I want to be able to pass on a country rode and not need 5 seconds to do it. I want to be able to stop on a pot hole street in Manhattan and not have the ABS get confused. I want a more supple ride in an upright position and be able to carry half my house with me so I'll be comfortable when I arrive after a 500 mile day. That's all. ;D