MSC - Motorcycle Stability Control

[talreli]

I was talking the other day to a KTM owner about the MSC system on his bike (https://youtu.be/xl1FlPz-TcQ). He absolutely loves it to the point that he will not consider a bike that doesn't have this safety feature.

Anyone knows if MSC is in the cards for future S10 ?

 

[EricV]

I was talking the other day to a KTM owner about the MSC system on his bike (https://youtu.be/xl1FlPz-TcQ). He absolutely loves it to the point that he will not consider a bike that doesn't have this safety feature.

Anyone knows if MSC is in the cards for future S10 ?

Reli

LOL, so when you suck, MSC takes over!

Learn to ride poser.

 

[talreli]

LOL, so when you suck, MSC takes over!

Learn to ride poser.

Either you suck , or run into unpredictable road conditions, it can save your life or at a minimum avoid a serious injury. It's like ABS, you never know it's there until you *really* need it.....
https://youtu.be/2h9MVbkpLZQ

 

[Pterodactyl]

This system seems to function in much the same way as the BMW system on the S1000RR. Perhaps Bosch makes both systems. A few years back Keith Code wrote an article about his experiences when he switched from using the Ninja 1000 to the S1000RR as a training bike at his road racing school. (One anecdote: a friend has a S1000RR and decided to test the system. While riding in the rain, with the bike in the Rain mode, he gave it full throttle while heeled over in a corner. With 196 HP available one would think he'd have a poor result, but the bike barely accelerated until he was out of the lean.) Code said, if I recall correctly, that the average student's initial lap times and graduation lap times were not significantly different between the two bikes. What did change dramatically was the number of wrecks by riders throughout the course. On average riders were 50% less likely to wreck on the S1000RR. So I guess that if you figure in the lap times of laps that were never completed the S1000RR system does make a difference. Systems like this won't turn you into another Valentino Marquez, but they may save your hide.

 

[BadNews]

Doesn't the Yamaha R-1 already have this? I could see some of that technology trickling down to other models in their lineup.

 

[VRODE]

It's a great feature but I don't know if it'll trickle down to all models. And as much as I like the safety factor, a lack of it would not preclude me from buying a bike I liked. If I'm THAT worried about riding on two wheels I'll take the car.

 

[EricV]

This system seems to function in much the same way as the BMW system on the S1000RR. Perhaps Bosch makes both systems. A few years back Keith Code wrote an article about his experiences when he switched from using the Ninja 1000 to the S1000RR as a training bike at his road racing school. (One anecdote: a friend has a S1000RR and decided to test the system. While riding in the rain, with the bike in the Rain mode, he gave it full throttle while heeled over in a corner. With 196 HP available one would think he'd have a poor result, but the bike barely accelerated until he was out of the lean.) Code said, if I recall correctly, that the average student's initial lap times and graduation lap times were not significantly different between the two bikes. What did change dramatically was the number of wrecks by riders throughout the course. On average riders were 50% less likely to wreck on the S1000RR. So I guess that if you figure in the lap times of laps that were never completed the S1000RR system does make a difference. Systems like this won't turn you into another Valentino Marquez, but they may save your hide.

I agree with what you said, but I see this as a way to sell bigger, more capable bikes, to buyers that lack the skills to ride them well. For a skilled rider, yes, it's just in the background and there if something unpredictable occurs. But for a poor rider, they never learn how to improve. Kids that have never ridden or driven with out ABS generally don't know how to threshold brake properly, for example. Sure it will save a lot on a training course, in terms of crashes. But how do you teach the student to recover when they do something poorly?

Perhaps it will help avoid inexperienced riders from crashing enough to merit inclusion in more bikes. It just seems like an answer to a question not asked for most and another added complexity and cost to ever increasing bike prices.

 

[WJBertrand]

Nobody knows how to manually advance spark timing any more. It's tragic really...


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[EricV]

Nobody knows how to manually advance spark timing any more. It's tragic really...


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You jest, but I put about 50k miles on a '40 HD knucklehead with manually advance/retard timing. There is a learning curve, but it's not that difficult.

OTOH, I ran into an 8 year old boy last year that didn't know how to flush a toilet. I worked for a local city parks dept. and he told me the toilet was broken. When I checked it out, nothing wrong. Later I asked him why he though it was broken. In the end, he had one of those wave your hand across the sensor toilets at home, automatic flush toilets at his school and no one had ever shown him how to flush a manual toilet. When I took the lid off the tank and explained how it worked, then had him flush while watching what happened in the tank, he turned around with this look of epiphany on his face and told me "I think a lot of the toilets I thought were broken, weren't".

Knowledge and skill are always better than dumbing things down electronically to the point people don't even bother to understand what's going on. Makes it pretty difficult to deal with things when that technology isn't present. Ever encounter someone that can't tie their shoes or read a analog clock? How about people that can't drive a manual trans car? I have encountered all of those and more.

 

[Sierra1]

Nobody knows how to manually advance spark timing any more. It's tragic really...
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That skill went away with the distributor. The complaints being expressed against the MSC now are similar to the complaints made about ABS back in the day. I don't think there are any of us that would do away with their ABS. MSC would not be a deciding factor for me in the purchase of a new bike, but anything that prevents crashes/injuries shouldn't be ridiculed. 'Cuz you can't plan for everything you will encounter on the road.

 

[WJBertrand]

I wonder if similar discussions regarding ones self-perceived manhood took place when automatic spark advance was introduced?


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[EricV]

I'm not against technology. But, stupid should hurt. Otherwise no one learns from being stupid, they just keep on doing it.

I don't see the point in making a powerful bike, then setting it up so an inexperienced rider can easily ride it w/o risking it getting away from him.

This isn't like ABS. It's not saving you because of unexpected conditions, it's saving you when don't know what you're doing and over input throttle in a bad situation.

 

[talreli]

As experienced as one can be, it can still help in situations where an unexpected obstacle is encountered after having already leaned into the curve....

 

[EricV]

Riding within your sight lines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GvLArXCVOI

 

[RonH]

I really can easily and happily live without any of these things, ABS, traction control, and this thing, whatever the initials are, MSC, whatever.

 

[WJBertrand]

I kinda see it this way. If the technology is ubiquitous, no one needs to know the old school ways because they'll likely never encounter a need for it. I know and work with some damn good engineers that have never used or known how to use a slide rule. Who cares! One simply doesn't need that skill these days.


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[EricV]

I kinda see it this way. If the technology is ubiquitous, no one needs to know the old school ways because they'll likely never encounter a need for it. I know and work with some damn good engineers that have never used or known how to use a slide rule. Who cares! One simply doesn't need that skill these days.

History shows us, nothing lasts forever. If you lack skills, you will eventually find yourself in a spot when you wish you had them. I've lost count of the times I've tried to teach someone how to self recover that lacks the basic skills necessary to do so, when technology failed them. From things as simple as driving a car w/o a clutch to teaching an engineer basic fluid dynamics when he couldn't model it on his computer.

That slide rule looks pretty awesome when you don't have electricity.

 

[Dogdaze]

History shows us, nothing lasts forever. If you lack skills, you will eventually find yourself in a spot when you wish you had them. I've lost count of the times I've tried to teach someone how to self recover that lacks the basic skills necessary to do so, when technology failed them. From things as simple as driving a car w/o a clutch to teaching an engineer basic fluid dynamics when he couldn't model it on his computer.

That slide rule looks pretty awesome when you don't have electricity.

I'm in the same camp as EricV on this one, I was conflicted on getting a watch for my daughter to teach her to tell the time, on one hand (no pun) get a digital watch, as you tell the time saying numbers you see, right? So obvious choice, but then opted for the analogue version, because she may have to read time "the old fashioned way". We will never escape technology, but retaining some basic manual skills plays an important part in our ability to think for ourselves.

 

[2daMax]

According to my 1190 Adventure friend, he finds his rear disc hot and suspects the MSC system somewhat uses the rear brake as a control. Stock up on the rear brake pads, if you have MSC, if this is actually the real case.

 

[EricV]

MSC has been compared to ABS in this thread. I would suggest, it's really more akin to TCS. How many of us have wanted to do away with TCS or have found it more intrusive than helpful in our day to day riding? I've never once felt the need to turn off ABS, but have had many a ride where TCS was more of a pain in the rear than a helpful tool. I can manage my throttle just fine, thank you. I don't need the extra hassle of TCS and having to remember to set it after every stop is annoying when riding off pavement. I can't help but feel that MSC will be a similar trait for some riders.