Melted connector

[dcstrom]

I was just saying on Facebook the other day how great the bike was going, 18,000 miles so far this year on nothing but oil changes (121,000 total). Today a connector under the right side panel had a meltdown. That will teach me to go bragging on FB!

I haven't looked at a wiring diagram yet to see what these actually are, but I guess someone knows... ABS light and Engine Check light came on. ABS fuse is blown, don't know about any others yet.

Anyone seen this before? Is it just a case of replacing the connector and fuses, or could there be other issues to look for?

This connector would have been pulled last Christmas when it had a big service, so should be clean-ish. What else, apart from a dirty connection, could cause a meltdown?

 

[Checkswrecks]

DC - who?
Welcome back!
::004::


Not sure what it is offhand but at the same time are you sure that connector would have been opened at Christmas? If nobody else does today, I'll try to pull up the wiring diagram tonight when I get home.


Connectors going like that are from the higher resistance they have, greater than the wire. Heat goes up and there is blackened material at the lower right, so that's where the source of heat would have been, adjacent to the spade, not a bad crimp of the wire. So I'd strongly suspect why the connector spades developed a bit of corrosion.


I keep telling folks to pull connectors when they do big maintenance, use some contact cleaner, and re-assemble with dielectric grease to put off corrosion. This photo is why. Thanks for posting it.

 

[2daMax]

Most plastic connectors should be able to withstand 120 C unless they are designed for high temp use which can go up to 330 C. This case, it is 120C. The only thing that can cause a meltdown at the connector instead of anywhere along the cables is that the connector interconnection area has developed an air gap that cause arching. Yeap, the basis of Tig welding is arching and you got that going on. Connectors probably were loosen somewhat. I would dismiss a short circuit occurrence as the meltdown would happen along the wire.

Dielectric grease would help prevent arching over an air gap. This is a good thing to apply.

 

[dcstrom]

So if I understand correctly I should be able to break the connector apart, clean the connections, replace the plastic shell and burned fuses, and should be good to go? No need for cutting wires or replacing connectors themselves (assuming the are not melted!)

 

[greg the pole]

I was just saying on Facebook the other day how great the bike was going, 18,000 miles so far this year on nothing but oil changes (121,000 total). Today a connector under the right side panel had a meltdown. That will teach me to go bragging on FB!

I haven't looked at a wiring diagram yet to see what these actually are, but I guess someone knows... ABS light and Engine Check light came on. ABS fuse is blown, don't know about any others yet.

Anyone seen this before? Is it just a case of replacing the connector and fuses, or could there be other issues to look for?

This connector would have been pulled last Christmas when it had a big service, so should be clean-ish. What else, apart from a dirty connection, could cause a meltdown?

hi Trevor,

didn't you get the ABS unit replaced recently? maybe it wasn't seated all the way, just making the connection and causing a large resistance (heat)..
I'd check the rest of the wires in both directions for any signs of damage, replace the male/female coneectors and forget about it

see you on FB

 

[Checkswrecks]

So if I understand correctly I should be able to break the connector apart, clean the connections, replace the plastic shell and burned fuses, and should be good to go? No need for cutting wires or replacing connectors themselves (assuming the are not melted!)

No

If you were stuck on the side of the road somewhere, it might get you off the road to a shop but not much more. Just cleaning back to clean copper wire and twisting the ends together would be better. You need to get to nice shiny clean copper, both for the wire and in the connector.

Why is because once you heat copper enough to the point your photo shows, all the little strands have developed a copper oxide on the surface, and CuO is a non-conductor. Same for the interface of the spades and the wire strands. That increase in resistance means that the connection will run hot, because heat is created by putting current through a resistance.

As mentioned on the side, earlier, you probably will be OK to strip the wire back to clean copper and put in a splice or new set of spades. Once you do, check the voltage across the battery to see that it is charging properly again, since you also got Fault Code 46.

 

[patrickg450]

So if I understand correctly I should be able to break the connector apart, clean the connections, replace the plastic shell and burned fuses, and should be good to go? No need for cutting wires or replacing connectors themselves (assuming the are not melted!)

Yes, IF there is NOT damage. We get stuff like that all the time at work. Use the grease like stated above.............

 

[Checkswrecks]

Yes, IF there is NOT damage. We get stuff like that all the time at work. Use the grease like stated above.............

I'd totally agree if there were no damage, but there is when you zoom in. Besides, putting on a new connector is easy and quick.

 

[dcstrom]

Here's a closer view

 

[greg the pole]

a bush league fix would be to free the connectors from the plastic goop, clean them to bare metal, reconnect, make sure the insulation and wire on either side is not badly damaged,
tape it up (heat shrink it if you can).
I think you will be hard pressed to buy just the connector, you could just snip the wires off, replace them with insulated male/female spade connectors and call it a day

 

[patrickg450]

after seeing the close up I would not reuse. Cheap part..........even for a guy that has not worked in a few years.

 

[tomatocity]

Trevor, not sure where you are or how much time you have but... Jim Davis of Eastern Beaver http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/main.html on carries high quality parts and ships internationally.

As others said... clean connections and dielectric grease.

 

[dcstrom]

Well, with some help from a friend got the connector replaced, all good, bike fired up, error lights went out but... One wire is getting hot, and not much charge going to the battery. Alternator? 15km to the Yamaha shop, reckon I can make it before the battery dies. Yeah let's go for it, beats putting it on a trailer right? It's not a Harley.

So got all of 5km before there wasn't enough battery to drive the fuel pump, and she died. If I have any character flaw at all it's that I'm sometimes too optimistic LOL.

No trailer readily available so rather than sit there with my poor dead bike like a dufus, I started pushing, 5km back to the Schloss. Luckily at least half of it was downhill, and I had some help for the tough bits. Next week will be in the Yam dealer and we'll get to the bottom of it!

 

[dcstrom]

We think we found the problem - bad regulator. My friend tells me that output from the grey plug is around 55 amps, which he says is about double what it should be (dunno it that's true, haven't had a chance to look it up yet).

The alloy cover is supposed to be glued to the back, but the glue melted.

So... New regulator, repair some wiring, fixed?

 

[jaeger22]

I hope that is the problem but be careful. There is a good chance that there is something down stream of the regulator drawing too much power. And that may have been what damaged the regulator. Very hard to tell from here of course but just don't assume the new regulator fixes it. If nothing else, check to make sure that the charging voltage with the new regulator installed is in the 14V range. If it is in the mid to low 13V range or even lower, I would expect some kind of incorrect heavy load down stream.
You may know this but for all, our regulators are of the typical motorcycle "dumb" regulator design. That is they do not control the alternator out put at all. They work by sensing voltage and shunting current to ground until the voltage drops to the required level. That is to say, the alternator runs wide open all the time and the regulator turns the excess electrical power into heat to hold the voltage down. That is why they get so hot and have cooling fins. They also of course turn the 3 phase AC from the alternator into DC for the battery and bikes systems.
It is hard for me to imagine the current getting that high from failed regulation but maybe. . .
Wish I was close enough to bring my meters and help.
Best of luck.
John

 

[dcstrom]

Thanks John - is there a way to test the alternator before we put another regulator on and potentially blow it up?

The problem with this one seems to be intermittent, so I suppose we could stick it back on temporarily and test downstream? (Actually if it's the alternator side of the reg, that would be upstream...)

 

[Checkswrecks]

If it was hot enough to show any damage at all, the regulator definitely is shot. As John noted, the regulator is typical for motorcycles and I note that Yamaha has superseded the part number for the 2012 bikes with a new design. The really good news for Trevor is that this regulator seems to be common across most of the Yamaha and Star motorcycle products, as can be seen here:
http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/p/yamaha/1d7-81960-01-00/rectifier-regulator-assy
(This 2013 listing is what the link off of the 2012 parts fiche directs to)


The connector could easily be why the reg went bad, and I've seen this numerous times before. If it is the wire sensing the voltage and gets a little resistance, then the regulator senses that it is supplying too little, and turns up the voltage. Additional current means additional heat to the connector, which again means more resistance to the regulator, and this feedback loop regularly results failures exactly like what Trevor has had.


As John wrote, simply change/clean the connectors, install the new regulator, and check the battery voltage when done.


btw - If you'd still had the original battery, you'd probably now be changing it too.

 

[jaeger22]

+1 on what Checks said. There is one other test you can do before firing it up, On page 140 of the manual it gives the procedure for checking the Stator coils. (the stationary portion of alternator)
Check the resistance from each of the three white wires going to the regulator from the stator to each other wire. i.e. 1 to 2, 2 to 3, and 1 to 3. They should read .112 to .168 ohms. That is very low and almost a short but if one is open that would be clear. Not much chance that they will be bad but worth a quick check as you have the connector exposed anyway.
Good luck.
John

 

[dcstrom]

Thanks guys, just about the visit the local Yam dealer... price is around $150 in the US, I expect it to be double that here... but I have to ask. Seems likely I'll get the replacement from the US, then the next question is - new or used? Or non-OEM, which can be had for around $65. S'pose I have to play it safe and get a new Yamaha one, can't complain about 120,000 miles out of the original...

 

[Dogdaze]

Where are you Trevor? There are a few EU websites that if you enter the part # will come in at a decent price, KFM-Motorräder is one such site.