"There are lies, damn lies and statistics" is what the other brands will say ::025::Venture said:
MC USA Shootout
- Thread starter 20valves
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This "test" seems to run contrary to all other reviews I have read in that the MCUSA guys keep talking about how big and heavy the Tenere is (which it is) and how top heavy it is which I don't notice. Is this because I have spent many thousands of miles on ST1100s and ST1300s and by comparison the Tenere seems like a flyweight? Regardless, in the end what someone else thinks about the bike I bought is irrelevant. If the bike is heavier due to stronger parts that are less likely to break I am OK with that.
Slight hijack. I read Motorcyclist's comparo between the Tiger 800XC and BMW F800GS. They said some not complimentary things about the F800. Kinda surprising to me anyway.
Slight hijack. I read Motorcyclist's comparo between the Tiger 800XC and BMW F800GS. They said some not complimentary things about the F800. Kinda surprising to me anyway.
The other thing I have never seen mentioned is that the GSA has a heavier stronger frame (and still manages to break) than the GS.Buckeye56 said:
With similar equipment and fuel the GSA and S10 are pretty line ball weight wise. I bet the S10 is stronger though.
I think it may be a good idea for YAMAHA to think about sending the S10 over to the R1 chassis team and coming up with a more "European" version.
Most riders will never get to punish the bike the way it was designed to be punished and I don't think it would hurt to do a lightweight, peakier version for the Europeans (or the Spec shoppers). If people are going to make a bunch of assumptions about the bike and rule it out with out taking into account the effort that YAMAHA have gone to to make that weight "invisible" then it's only going to get sold to the "open minded" types that actually spend time evaluating the thing in the real world.
It's pretty much what happened with BMW, The R1150 was built to be tough but they came up against the "weight obsessed sports bike thinkers" so the next time round did a lightweight, GS and a beefier GSA and let the marketing department fiddle the real world figures a bit for all the press releases.
It's hard to be an honest manufacturer when people spec shop. Even when someone weighs the bloody things side by side people still keep pouring out incorrect figures, even two posts after the figures were shown.
Personally I think they did a great job of making a "long way round" bike but at the same time people are buying the idea of that and really just ride it like any other bike.
In Australia a bike as tough as the S10 is a really re-assuring thing. There are many unexpected gotcha's in Australia and a tough bike can make the difference between being stranded 200km from anything in the desert and getting home with only a raised heart beat for 5 minutes.
Then there is the YAMAHA "Skid plate" which can bring it all un done.
Cheers
Graham
::026:: ::026:: ::026:: ::026:: Well said!!tkad said:
I too don't get the top heavy thing. I can balance mine at stop lights without having to drop a foot. Never could pull that off with a top heavy KLR. ::012::Buckeye56 said:
The MCUSA guys have posted on ADV defending/explaining their impressions and comments. A pretty stand up thing to do, imho. They have had to admit that the dealer/reliability thing looms large in most buyers' minds. I think the Duc/BMW/KTM/Triumph owners would concede that Y wins hands down on dealer density across the country.
MCUSA adv bike Shootout Thread on ADV
MCUSA adv bike Shootout Thread on ADV
+1Brntrt said:
The balance thing is probably more a function of the rider. I've done that on all of my bikes for years regardless of weight or CG (the VFR was a bit more difficult). It must be a leftover from trials riding so many, many years ago.
It's fun to do at a dead stop, though. I've had people watch for a while and finally ask how I do it. It's just two wheeled parlor trick.
That being said, this bike is one of the easiest I've ever had to do this stunt with.
colorider
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Good read!!20valves said:
Thanks for posting the link.
::022::
Personally I thought the MCUSA shootout was outstanding although I'm not sure I agree with the Ducati placing second simply because of the mechanical issues. The test was completely objective with lots of data to compare each of the bikes and I felt the editors didn't show any bias at all.
For Yamaha to come out with a brand new design that went heads up against the BMW that has been around now for about 20 years or so, I think proves without a doubt that the Yamaha is a winner regardless of where it may have finished in the shootout.
0-60 Faster than the Multistrada? ABS, 2 Traction control modes, Touring and Sport modes? All standard? Thousands less? If I were those other guys I would be very concerned!
For Yamaha to come out with a brand new design that went heads up against the BMW that has been around now for about 20 years or so, I think proves without a doubt that the Yamaha is a winner regardless of where it may have finished in the shootout.
0-60 Faster than the Multistrada? ABS, 2 Traction control modes, Touring and Sport modes? All standard? Thousands less? If I were those other guys I would be very concerned!
I'm not seeing what you based your 'unbiased' statement on. For starters, How can they say the single-sided swingarm and final drive of the GS is proven design with a reputation for being reliable without being biased? That is purely subjective..no, it's totally fabricated in BMW's favor. Second, saying that the S10 is 'top-heavy' runs contrary to almost all other accounts and was not measured in any meaningful way, so that doesn't pass the 'unbiased' test either. Lastly, although I cound add more, they admittedly "tested" the bikes in 'off-road' areas mainly consisting of the type of dirt roads that easily allowed triple digit speeds (translation, more suited to the Multi-). If that's not bias, maybe I need to review the meaning of the word... They put-up a great facade of numbers, including where they took the trip mileage multiplied by the number of bikes ???kgfire said:
Let's also throw in the fact that they placed the S10 last for offroad when the OEM suspension alone puts it second only to the KTM. Just because they provide alot of graphs and numbers doesn't automatically make the report objective. I call the methods they are using 'smoke and mirrors.'
The bias is rooted in the paradigm that the GS is the standard that all others must meet. If a competitor is heavier than a BMW then it is too heavy, if the ABS can't be turned off then it functionally flawed etc. The S10 doesn't follow the playbook, it challenges the paradigm and will never meet the "standard".
+1. And the 'standard' status is by vitue of being the only kid on the block for quite some time. This grandfather status also seems to make some magazines look past the facts and pump the bike's image up even future, IE final drive failures that suddenly translate into known reliable components.Brntrt said:
Dirt_Dad
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I'm not ready to say "never." With a very high satisfaction rate from the owners, if Yamaha supports and promotes the S10 it has a reasonable chance to become the new standard. Suzuki screwed up big time by denying they had an issue with the DL1000 clutch chutter and they earned themselves suspicion early on. They failed to promote the bike and it never became a big seller. Too bad, the owners loved it. I do hope Yamaha does not make the same mistakes and puts their muscle behind the S10 to allow it to flourish as it should.Brntrt said:
If they YAMAHA acts like Suzuki, they would be parting with their own tradition. Chances of them listening is good when you consider their history.Dirt_Dad said:
Yamaguy55
No difficult problems, just difficult people
I tend to agree with a lot of what they say. But that brings me back to what I think the Tenere is: a touring bike that can take off road,not an off road bike that tours. I don't expect it to excell as a dirt bike, I have a WR250R for that, and I don't expect it to be a sport bike, although on the mountain roads around here, it is better than a sport bike. So in a lot of ways, it has broad use and application and appeal. I like it more every time I ride it. It is a very nice road bike for slab and back roads, plus I can go ride gravel roads with my favorite woman and still pull it off. Can't do that with either a street/sport bike, and can't do that with a dirt bike.
So for my uses, it is very close to ideal.
The only changes I would make are a lower first gear, and a bit more upper RPM power, maybe 130 HP or so.
So for my uses, it is very close to ideal.
The only changes I would make are a lower first gear, and a bit more upper RPM power, maybe 130 HP or so.
Agree.Yamaguy55 said:
The bike the geared way to high for any sort of slow speed technical off-road work. You have to constantly slip the clutch if under about 5-6MPH. The existing first gear would be a ideal 2nd gear!
I wounder if Yamaha will lower the final drive for next years bike?
As far as power....is there ever enough? Don't think so!!!
-steve
Yamaguy55
No difficult problems, just difficult people
About the power:
I'm merely asking for a third drive mode. They could call it "scary" or "too much": 135-140 RWHP. I would think this easily done. Just call in the software elves, and reflash our ECM.
I'm merely asking for a third drive mode. They could call it "scary" or "too much": 135-140 RWHP. I would think this easily done. Just call in the software elves, and reflash our ECM.
This review is unbelievable, I have a GS, bought believing htey are reliable only to discover the Final Drives are prone to failing, often below 10k miles, and many owners who have clocked 50k have had 3 or even 4 final drive failures. You also need to carry a spare EWS ring (immobiliser) and Fuel Pump Controller around as these are extremely prone to failure. Just got back from a 3,000 mile trip on mine and during that trip the bike blew both fork seals, developed a clutch fault and warped both front discs - and on the GS forums it is almost daily event that someones bike gets towed away with either a final drive or FPC failure. Certainly not reliable!
As to the Tenere being Oh so huge, well I parked my GS next to a dealers demo Tenere and the GS dwarfed it, I only have the standard GS not the much larger Adventure and it looked way taller, way wider and probably a bit longer, sitting on the Yamaha it felt much smaller, the ground was much closer and the bike much narrower, anyone saying this is huge after a GS is either a complete moron, or on BMW's payroll, and when riding the Yamaha it feels no heavier than the GS and is less top heavy, it certainly manouvres at low speed easier than my tall and topply GS.
In the UK BMW win every bike test shootout, on the Advanture bikes and sportsbikes, but the magazines always have huge double page BMW adverts, the bikes are laways described as reliable, despite what many owners will tell you, my main reason for wanting the Yamaha is I just do not trust my GS to get me from A-B, and when it does go wrong the service and parts costs are almost double that of Yamaha - luckily my fork seals were done under warranty as they are a £400 job at a franchised BMW dealer!!!
As to the Tenere being Oh so huge, well I parked my GS next to a dealers demo Tenere and the GS dwarfed it, I only have the standard GS not the much larger Adventure and it looked way taller, way wider and probably a bit longer, sitting on the Yamaha it felt much smaller, the ground was much closer and the bike much narrower, anyone saying this is huge after a GS is either a complete moron, or on BMW's payroll, and when riding the Yamaha it feels no heavier than the GS and is less top heavy, it certainly manouvres at low speed easier than my tall and topply GS.
In the UK BMW win every bike test shootout, on the Advanture bikes and sportsbikes, but the magazines always have huge double page BMW adverts, the bikes are laways described as reliable, despite what many owners will tell you, my main reason for wanting the Yamaha is I just do not trust my GS to get me from A-B, and when it does go wrong the service and parts costs are almost double that of Yamaha - luckily my fork seals were done under warranty as they are a £400 job at a franchised BMW dealer!!!
I think the technical term is "pants filling". ::024::Yamaguy55 said:
YAMAHA has a few "fork seal issues" mainly due to dirty sliders and soft rubber meeting hard grit. It is something that is not expensive to avoid though, but just be aware. Don't want you having a BMW experience on an S10.Rasher said:
Funny thing about the BMUU's problems. I suppose every time I mention it people think it's all because I have read too many blogs and only people with problems post. Nope. out of 4 people I knew with R series bikes 2 had 1 replaced and 1 had 2 replaced and three were not happy.
How is that for a "coincidence". I decided I might look into it a bit further after that. Last year on a cruise around Australia, by friends meticulously maintained RT started making click noises after a flat highway section. SO now the 4th is making some noises.
I am sure he has dismantled it and X-rayed every piece by now, he is that kind of guy
and it is now not making noises, but it doesn't fill me with confidence.I am sure that the next water cooled version will be perfect though. They always are.
Cheers
Graham