Lowering the fork legs in the triple clamp; how deep can I go?

[kjetil4455]

Hi friends

My front rider sag is just 45mm and rear about 60mm but still I feel that the bike pushes into corners (ie. I Feel that I am falling into the corner) due to inadequat trail angle. This is normally resolved by raising the front and lowering the rear, but I really don't want to decrease the rear further as I don't want to reduce ground clearance further. Seems to me that this bike was designed to have greater rear sag than typical spec to maintain appropriate trail angles. Can I push the fork legs 10mm into the triple clamp, ie. past the superior rim level (to make the nose a little taller), or is this frowned upon? It's currently at the very border of the TC.

Thanks a lot

 

[Cycledude]

Seems like a pretty easy cost nothing job but a little time so why not give it a try and see what you think.
i see no reason to adjust mine.

 

[WJBertrand]

Adding rear preload would accomplish the same, unless you think the bike will get too high for you going that way.

 

[Tenman]

have you backed off the front preload to get more sag?

 

[kjetil4455]

Guys, maybe I wasn’t clear, but I’m looking to raise the nose not the contrary.

 

[Longdog Cymru]

Guys, maybe I wasn’t clear, but I’m looking to raise the nose not the contrary.

Why? Why would you want to raise the front? All you will be doing is to kick out the front wheel and it will start to handle like a chopper and push the front even more.

 

[StefanOnHisS10]

I wouldn't go with raising her that way, have you checked the technical state of you forks? springs alright? oil weight? adding preload? progressive springs?

 

[cyclemike4]

Hi friends

My front rider sag is just 45mm and rear about 60mm but still I feel that the bike pushes into corners (ie. I Feel that I am falling into the corner) due to inadequat trail angle. This is normally resolved by raising the front and lowering the rear, but I really don't want to decrease the rear further as I don't want to reduce ground clearance further. Seems to me that this bike was designed to have greater rear sag than typical spec to maintain appropriate trail angles. Can I push the fork legs 10mm into the triple clamp, ie. past the superior rim level (to make the nose a little taller), or is this frowned upon? It's currently at the very border of the TC.

Thanks a lot

Depending on what tires I am running I will lower my triple clamps on my forks. Of course this is the opposite direction that you want to go but I did have my clamping surface of my forks up in the clamp of the lower triple clamp by about 5 or 6 mm. I never had any trouble doing that. I have ran several thousand miles like that. I can't see that causing you issues with the top clamp at all. Keep a close eye on things though. I try to not beat my bike too hard and bottom things out though. I did see Guy Cooper ( a USA motocross racer years ago) running a set of forks that were too small for the triple trees. He wrapped the fork legs with shim stock and would air that thing out! I guess that held just fine.

 

[Boris]

I’m pretty sure that the forks are not straight from the top down to the seal area. I seem to remember that they flare out around the lower yoke area. I’m curious if this will affect the tightening effect of the lower clamp on the leg.

 

[EricV]

@kjetil4455 - How new are your tires? "falling into the turn" is as much about tire shape as bike geometry. A more peaky tire profile gives that feeling and often goes away as the tire wears. Typically it's the front tire that makes the most difference on this issue. I've noted this on Michelin Pilot Roads in the past.

What you're suggesting will slow steering input and as others suggested, cause the front to push a bit. It's not uncommon for some to raise the rear to quicken steering feel. You want to do the opposite by raising the front to slow steering input. I don't recall anyone doing that, but a little goes a long way with fork adjustments. A 25mm lowering kit in the rear would usually move the forks up in the trees 13mm to match. I hope that gives you some idea of what impact your dropping the forks will have.

Sag... Yeah, lots of riders worry way too much about sag. This isn't a race bike, don't stress too much about sag. We carry panniers and load varies from empty to full, for some two up or solo as well. Unless you're going to spend the coin on a hydraulic adjustable pre-load shock, you'll rarely have perfect sag.

 

[bimota]

I’m pretty sure that the forks are not straight from the top down to the seal area. I seem to remember that they flare out around the lower yoke area. I’m curious if this will affect the tightening effect of the lower clamp on the leg.

yes your right i just sold a set of spare forks the bottom yoke fits on a wide part of the fork tube, its only as wide as the yoke itself above that yoke and below that yoke the fork leg gets narrow

rob

 

[WJBertrand]

Guys, maybe I wasn’t clear, but I’m looking to raise the nose not the contrary.

no, you were not clear. If the forks are in the standard position as delivered by Yamaha, there is no space to extend them. The tops of the outer tubes are already flush to the top of the upper triple clamp.
The Super Ténéré already has more rake than most standard, sport and sport touring bikes. Adding more would just make it steer dreadfully slow.

Learn to counter the falling in feeling by applying a little throttle. This is how a motorcycle should handle.

 

[kjetil4455]

Why? Why would you want to raise the front? All you will be doing is to kick out the front wheel and it will start to handle like a chopper and push the front even more.

I already explained why in the initial post. The back is too high and I don't want to lower it

 

[kjetil4455]

no, you were not clear. If the forks are in the standard position as delivered by Yamaha, there is no space to extend them. The tops of the outer tubes are already flush to the top of the upper triple clamp.
The Super Ténéré already has more rake than most standard, sport and sport touring bikes. Adding more would just make it steer dreadfully slow.

Learn to counter the falling in feeling by applying a little throttle. This is how a motorcycle should handle.

It's a common suspension and chassis problem that if the nose is too low it'll "fall" into the corners. Likewise, the opposite problem occurs when the nose is too tall and rear too low; it won't lean in sufficiently even if you really try. Various dampening settings can also influence this. This is in all suspension books. Yes, it is appropriate to give throttle upon exit but it's not that simple and it's not what I am looking for. Optimally, the bike should easily steer into the corner and ease through it without you having to fight the balance; the latter suggests that the nose is too low/rear too high or that rear rebound is too fast and front compression dampening too low, causing the very same geometric problem despite potentially optimal preload and spring settings.

I’m pretty sure that the forks are not straight from the top down to the seal area. I seem to remember that they flare out around the lower yoke area. I’m curious if this will affect the tightening effect of the lower clamp on the leg.

Good point there, thanks. Might have to just increase the fork compression instead, but it's already pretty hard so I was hoping to avoid it. Or simply lower the monoshock, but I was hoping to avoid that as well. Oh well.

 

[MattR]

When I had my forks tuned the new position was protruding 5mm from the yoke instead of being flush as standard.


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[kjetil4455]

When I had my forks tuned the new position was protruding 5mm from the yoke instead of being flush as standard.


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Thanks bud, but what I'm referring to is the opposite; lowering the tubes low the upper rim of the clamp. Obviously, some tube grip will be lost. I guess it's as unviable as it sounds.

 

[Jlq1969]

And do you feel the same with full tank or with the empty tank?… Do you use a tank bag? I think that if you lower the forks, the front vibration will increase (if you look and compare the front wheel axle with a fixed point on the chasis , you will see thet fork are vibrating permanently)….if you are not one to jump around, isn't it better to get a pair of longer springs?…and not move the forks from their original anchorage

 

[WJBertrand]

It's a common suspension and chassis problem that if the nose is too low it'll "fall" into the corners. Likewise, the opposite problem occurs when the nose is too tall and rear too low; it won't lean in sufficiently even if you really try. Various dampening settings can also influence this. This is in all suspension books. Yes, it is appropriate to give throttle upon exit but it's not that simple and it's not what I am looking for. Optimally, the bike should easily steer into the corner and ease through it without you having to fight the balance; the latter suggests that the nose is too low/rear too high or that rear rebound is too fast and front compression dampening too low, causing the very same geometric problem despite potentially optimal preload and spring settings.

If you are having to "fight" the balance of the bike in turns, I would suggest there's something wrong with the bike. Steering head bearing torque incorrect? tire pressure incorrect? tire type or size incorrect? Defective tire? Personally, coming off of sport and sport touring bikes, I prefer a tighter rake to quicken the steering. I find the Super Tenere slow steering compared to my previous bikes. I usually trail brake on the roads to purposely get the nose down a little to ease and quicken the steering. Of course this assumes all mechanical bits are in good order. Other than chopper builders, and they're doing it for looks not performance, I've not heard of anyone modifying a stock bike to increase rake and slow steering. If you really want to go that way, perhaps fitting a 21" front wheel?