Loud rattle in 5 or 6th gear and light throttle (load) with partially warmed up engine. Anyone ever had a middle drive gear wear out?

[V-rider]

Bike has 48k miles on it. Just got back from a 6000 mile epic ride. At about 1000 miles from home, a loud rattle started in 5th or 6th gear (can't remember which) and light throttle as I was going slow thru a town. The engine was partially warmed up. I also noticed one (1) same tap/rattle sound as I released the clutch quickly a couple of times to the friction point and placed some load on the driveshaft while pulling away from a gas station.

Before I left on my trip, I did a valve adjustment (2 were out of spec - tight at 40k miles), a new CCT, a new clutch basket, clutch kit, and Barnett pressure plate with coil springs.

When I think back, I did notice a faint rattle during the same conditions (partially warmed up engine, higher gears, light throttle) before my trip and I wondered if my new CCT wasn't doing it's job or there was slight spark knock. But now I know that that was the same sound, but only much louder after riding 5k miles on my trip.

I also noticed that the engine got progressively noisier during long downhill runs with the cruise set. When going up the next mountain grade, then engine noise returned to "normal".

During my trip, I also had a brief time in Montana where gear lube came out of the driveshaft weep hole and splattered on my wheel. By the time I hit Washington, the leak stopped. Didn't leak since.

I'm fairly confident it's not a cam chain or clutch basket noise. I'm pretty sure this rattle noise is in the driveshaft or middle drive gear area.

Question - has anyone had a similar rattle problem? If so, what was the fix? I wondered if perhaps the Torque Damper Cam that engages into the Middle Drive Pinion Gear assembly is worn and rattling? (I hope not, because that requires a case split to replace. Don't want to do that at all.)

Maybe there is too much clearance between the middle drive pinion gear and the middle driven pinion gear? Maybe I can re-shim the driven gear and avoid splitting the cases?

Anyone out there dealt with the middle driven gearset before?

Thanks!

 

[Squibb]

Difficult to say from a distance.

That driveshaft oil weep points me towards taking a look at the FD oil condition & seals. Then maybe drop the driveshaft & check the splines/UJ.

Problems in the middle gear are rare, but there is a damper/cam affair that I guess could cause some chatter if the trans isn't running smoothly.

 

[patrickg450]

have you done the Cam Chain Tensioner?

 

[V-rider]

Yup. CCT is done. The rattle definitely is near the rear/bottom of the engine.

 

[V-rider]

Difficult to say from a distance.

That driveshaft oil weep points me towards taking a look at the FD oil condition & seals. Then maybe drop the driveshaft & check the splines/UJ.

Problems in the middle gear are rare, but there is a damper/cam affair that I guess could cause some chatter if the trans isn't running smoothly.

Yes, I will definitely look at the u-joint and splines. Try to check the gear play too.

I'm hoping it's not this:



If I were to imagine the sound a worn one of these cams make, that would be it... Have to split the case to do it though. Ugh....

 

[Squibb]

If the throttle bodies are synced perfectly & the drivetrain/shaft/UJ is spinning smoothly, then the chattering, if that proves to be the issue, should cease. As I said, problems with the damper are a very rare event - almost inevitably the problem will prove to be elsewhere.

BTW @V-rider, try to resist any temptation to run the bike through the gears, when on the centre stand - S10s don't like it.

 

[V-rider]

If the throttle bodies are synced perfectly & the drivetrain/shaft/UJ is spinning smoothly, then the chattering, if that proves to be the issue, should cease. As I said, problems with the damper are a very rare event - almost inevitably the problem will prove to be elsewhere.

BTW @V-rider, try to resist any temptation to run the bike through the gears, when on the centre stand - S10s don't like it.

Thanks. I forgot to mention that I did also synch the throttle bodies using my Morgan Carbtune and did the air screw thing before my trip. They weren't too far off, and I didn't really notice any change in vibration/noise after I was done.

And no, I have never ran it in gear on the center stand.

I will try to dig into it this next week and post results.

 

[WJBertrand]

I would not be too quick to discount the clutch basket if you have a 1st Gen (2013 or earlier) model that has not been updated.


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[V-rider]

I would not be too quick to discount the clutch basket if you have a 1st Gen (2013 or earlier) model that has not been updated.


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Oops. Forgot to note that my bike is a 2014. And I replaced the clutch basket with a new one before I left. Thanks.

 

[V-rider]

I took a look under the middle drive gear cover. There seems to be an appropriate amount of play in the gears themselves.

As for the total driveshaft system play, I saw this.

I'm assuming both are normal. I would also assume that I won't see any play, when moving by hand, that comes from the cam drive device
since it's probably spring loaded with some serious pressure.

Hmmm... wonder where that rattle noise was coming from... maybe I'll drain the Castrol 20W50 v-twin oil I filled it with during my trip. I thought a thicker oil would be better for my trip thru AZ and NM. Maybe try something else this time.

 

[WJBertrand]

Oops. Forgot to note that my bike is a 2014. And I replaced the clutch basket with a new one before I left. Thanks.

Why did you replace the basket? The 2014 would have come from the factory already fitted with the newer, updated basket.


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[V-rider]

Why did you replace the basket? The 2014 would have come from the factory already fitted with the newer, updated basket.


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Well, I didn't need to. It was basically me not being familiar with the noise of these engines. There ended up being nothing wrong with the original. The previous owner did trail riding with the bike, so I thought maybe he beat on the clutch some and it was noisy. Putting in a new basket and set of clutch plates didn't change the noise of the engine with the clutch out one bit.

However, this rattle I'm looking into developed during my trip - so I am trying to figure it out.

 

[StefanOnHisS10]

From a distance it is very hard to judge if there is something wrong. Super tenere's are not the quietest bike's out there but are amongst the most reliable ones!
With a clunky skid plate mounted engine noises reflect up and make things sound worst than they are. Mine also runs "rough" but there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

So.. Is there really something wrong with it or are you coming from a super smooth inline 4?

 

[V-rider]

From a distance it is very hard to judge if there is something wrong. Super tenere's are not the quietest bike's out there but are amongst the most reliable ones!
With a clunky skid plate mounted engine noises reflect up and make things sound worst than they are. Mine also runs "rough" but there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

So.. Is there really something wrong with it or are you coming from a super smooth inline 4?

Yeah. I know what you are saying. The noise suddenly got much louder near the end of my trip. So something obviously changed. Just trying to figure it out.

I actually want to sell the bike, but I want to make sure there is nothing seriously wrong with it before I do. After putting 6000 miles on it over a week or so, I came to the conclusion that my 6'6" 300lbs self just doesn't fit on the bike. I have bar risers, lowered foot pegs, Laam seat, highway pegs, Madstad tall windshield, etc. All helped my comfort, but I still suffered. I've had so many different bikes and nothing fit good enough. Maybe I'll give up on motorcycles...

 

[Mr. BR]

Hey there Big Guy (V-rider),
I feel your pain on “fit” as I’m 6’-10” and 240… most things don’t fit me but the Super Ten isn’t bad at all for my local riding (and it’s certainly roomier than my ’05 FJR13).
But 6000 miles in a week? Nope… I couldn’t do that on ANY bike and probably not even in a car… that is some serious daily mileage.
Btw, I’m the guy who bought your extra GEN2 clutch basket last Sept. and it has been happily spinning away in my 83K mile 2012 ST (and it was in PERFECT condition with ~40K miles on it).
I wish you luck on your continuing diagnosis… if the ST is anything like the FJR, the middle gear is not known for being noisy beyond the normal drive-line slop/lash.
Regards,
Mr. BR

 

[V-rider]

Hey there Big Guy (V-rider),
I feel your pain on “fit” as I’m 6’-10” and 240… most things don’t fit me but the Super Ten isn’t bad at all for my local riding (and it’s certainly roomier than my ’05 FJR13).
But 6000 miles in a week? Nope… I couldn’t do that on ANY bike and probably not even in a car… that is some serious daily mileage.
Btw, I’m the guy who bought your extra GEN2 clutch basket last Sept. and it has been happily spinning away in my 83K mile 2012 ST (and it was in PERFECT condition with ~40K miles on it).
I wish you luck on your continuing diagnosis… if the ST is anything like the FJR, the middle gear is not known for being noisy beyond the normal drive-line slop/lash.
Regards,
Mr. BR

I guess it was 9 days of riding total. One week of rest in the middle. Too much. Not enough time to stop and see things.

Nice. I'm glad to hear you got the clutch in and you are using it. I knew there was nothing wrong with it once I opened it up. But went ahead and put the new one in anyway...

And yes, after pulling the cover and peeking at the middle gear movement/free play, I'm satisfied that the gears are probably ok.

Maybe I'll change the oil and ride it again. See if I still hear it.

 

[V-rider]

Update. Don't hear any rattle anymore. Guess it's not a concern.

 

[Tenman]

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