Loud pipes DO NOT save lives

Butterthebean

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I don't really care for loud pipes anymore, but back in my younger days I was the idiot blipping his throttle has he rode under every overpass. Now I get amused at those guys.

But that article though....good lord. I agree with the second half... the part about making yourself more visible. The first half though.... the shite about the doppler effect.... kinda tanks it's own credibility when it conflates volume with pitch. 2 completely different things.
 

RCinNC

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I'm not aware of any actual scientifically conducted studies about whether or not loud pipes have any effect on safety, so until one is done, it's always going to come down to anecdotal information about its perceived safety value.

But come on....the whole "loud pipes save lives" mantra originated with Harley riders, long before squids were putting fart cans on their Gixxers. And these same Harley riders seem to be totally immune to the irony that, as they roll down the roads rattling windows and annoying the hell out of the public as their loud pipes save their lives, they're doing it helmetless, in t-shirts, and fingerless gloves. It would seem that a lot of the whole lifesaving pipes philosophy is nothing more than a cover for an adult version of "hey Mom, Mom, Mom, look at me, are you looking, hey Mom!!". How interested in saving your own life can you really be, if you eschew actual safety gear and rely on your Vance and Hines Ego Booster Exhaust to protect your ass?

As for getting someone's attention by "grabbin' some clutch and givin' them some red hot revs", there actually was already a device on your bike for that; it's that button strategically placed close to your thumb called a "horn". You know, that thing that actually faces towards the person whose attention you're trying to get, rather than facing away from them like your pipes? And yep, the horns on bikes are pretty pitiful from the factory. But that awesome $500.00 exhaust you put on your bike that really sounds bitchin' (but hey, it's there for safety) could be replaced by a $30.00 Stebel Nautilus that sounds like an 18 wheeler's horn and was actually designed to, you know, warn people up ahead of you.

Guys like making noise; it's in our DNA, I think. Hopefully you grow out of it at some point. Definitely, I hope you grow out of it before you and your straight pipe Road Glide or Hayabusa move in next door to me.
 
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SJC

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unless you're talking about ATV users, every province has a helmet law. Alberta is no longer helmet free.
I love the fact that your avatar is a dude sailing through the air without a helmet. Pot calling the kettle black.
Okay
To set the record straight.

1. That dude on my avatar is the infamous Steve McQueen. (Google him sometime!)

2. Sihks DO NOT have to wear helmets in Ontario .
 

WJBertrand

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Too bad that article tried to blame the doppler effect. I tend to agree that loud pipes have little to no effect on saving lives. The reason the sound is louder on a bike with open pipes after the bike passes vs. quieter on approach, is no more complicated than the direction in which the exhaust outlets are facing. Those loud pipe advocates should therefore design forward facing exhausts!
 
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greg the pole

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
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Okay
To set the record straight.

1. That dude on my avatar is the infamous Steve McQueen. (Google him sometime!)

2. Sihks DO NOT have to wear helmets in Ontario .
lol. what Kyle E said!
True...about the Sihks though!

carry on.
 

greg the pole

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
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Too bad that article tried to blame the doppler effect. I tend to agree that loud pipes have little to no effect on saving lives. The reason the sound is louder on a bike with open pipes after the bike passes vs. quieter on approach, is no more complicated than the direction in which the exhaust outlets are facing. Those loud pipe advocates should therefore design forward facing exhausts!
Ah the doppler effect. There's an actual formula to calculate it!
 

Xclimation

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With all due respect. I disagree with many on this. To me, it's common sense that if a motorcycle can heard, then a texting phone talking car driver is going to be aware there is a motorcycle in the vicinity and will keep a heads up. I had a cruiser and had loud pipes. Drivers definitely without a shadow of a doubt were more conscience of my presence. I also wear high visibility clothing. My cruiser sat lower so the visibility was not as good, especially to minivan/suv female drivers. As far as "doppler affect"......a sound is a sound. If the bike makes a sound, then a driver is going to pay more attention. I ride my bikes to work. Here in Dallas/Ft. Worth we have a LOT of traffic and a lot of unexpected lane merges! Many idiots wait till the last minute to merge and do stupid things and don't have time to get a good look before they decide to cut over..But, it's just common sense that a sound is going to make drivers more aware of your presence. I do my best to give a cushion around me on all sides. But, the problem is....in tight traffic if I leave a cushion over say a car length....99.9% of the time....some idiot will thread the needle and cut right in front of me! That's is in spite of there being plenty of room behind me. With louder pipes, it would still happen...but happened much less. And no...I didn't do unnecessary throttle blips and didn't dress like a pirate...nor was my bike a Harley. I do like how my Tenere sits higher for better visibility and I do have an after market muffler that is louder than stock, but nothing like a cruiser loud. Being that I'm more visible sitting higher, I don't need the volume. But, if a sound gets just one person to pay attention, then that could be the difference between life and death.
 
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RCinNC

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That's the common idea postulated by the loud pipes save lives proponents; that if drivers hear a motorcycle, they'll be more cautious when maneuvering. You're making a pretty big assumption that people in other cars actually hear you, at least consistently, and to a degree that they can actually hear where the sound is coming from and can judge where you are without actually seeing you. If you're driving down a six lane interstate full of traffic in Dallas, and your pipes are blasting away, how much of that sound (that's primarily spreading out in a cone behind you) do you think that drivers who are ahead of you can actually hear, especially with their windows up, A/C blasting, radio cranking, and talking on the phone? It might sound loud to you, and it sure as hell sounds loud to the people behind you, but do you really think a car that's three lanes over and up ahead of you traveling 75 mph and getting ready to do an abrupt lane change can actually hear your pipes to the point that they think "oh oh, better not move over, there's a bike behind me somewhere?

Why would your pipes cause people to stop cutting in front of you? That's totally counter-intuitive. If you're in light traffic, why would someone want to be stuck behind you in that cone of noise you're generating, when the sensible thing would be to go around you? In fact, I'd be more apt to think that your loud pipes would cause people to pull in front of you, just to avoid the sound of your pipes. I know there's no way I'd follow a motorcycle with loud pipes down the road if there was any possible way to get around him.

It's fine to disagree with me, because there aren't any studies to prove either position. There are some laws of physics that tend to make the whole loud pipes argument stand on shaky ground, though, i.e.: people ahead of you don't hear you the way you think they do. Relying on your anecdotal experience and the placebo effect might give you a sense of security where there really isn't one.

Here's a clip on Youtube of a guy on a ZX10R passing a line of Harleys on a two lane road. You can tell when he lingers behind some of the bikes that they are running, at the least, modified exhausts. Even through his helmet and the sound of his own engine, you can hear the exhaust on the Harleys ahead of him. What happens as soon as he passes them, and the loud Harley is behind him? All I hear is his own engine. The sound of that loud piped Harley died out immediately as he passed it, yet it's clearly a loud exhaust as he's following it. It's especially noticeable at around 00:40 on the clip. What you hear in the ZX10R rider's helmet at the point he passed that Harley is most likely a way better representation of what the driver of a buttoned up car with the A/C and stereo running hears when you're somewhere behind him.

 

Sierra1

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When I first saw this thread, I "assumed" it was for humorous effect. I now see that maybe it was intended to be serious, or at least taken as serious. For those who believe this thread title to be true....you're wrong. As previously mentioned, the "life saving" exhaust note is going behind, and away from you, AND everybody in front of you. We have all seen an emergency vehicle, approaching from the front or back. Notice how close it has to be, before you HEAR the siren. That's because at 50 mph, that emergency vehicle is "out running" the siren. That siren is usually at least 100 watts. It is DESIGNED to be heard, and noticed. It is attached to the front of the emergency vehicle; aimed at everybody in front of it. And, yet, daily, it is ignored, or not heard. You will likely always see the lights, before you hear the siren. And that's why, as previously mentioned, VISIBILTY is what we need to worry about; not our exhaust note. I always ride as if I'm invisible, and everybody is going to turn in front of me. Ride smart.
 

SJC

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The post was indeed meant to be serious.
In addition to not saving lives, loud pipes also disturb other people.
Loud exhaust, especially of the Harley type piss people off and scare people.
They simply aren’t part of a proper motorcyclist lifestyle.
 

SJC

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That's the common idea postulated by the loud pipes save lives proponents; that if drivers hear a motorcycle, they'll be more cautious when maneuvering. You're making a pretty big assumption that people in other cars actually hear you, at least consistently, and to a degree that they can actually hear where the sound is coming from and can judge where you are without actually seeing you. If you're driving down a six lane interstate full of traffic in Dallas, and your pipes are blasting away, how much of that sound (that's primarily spreading out in a cone behind you) do you think that drivers who are ahead of you can actually hear, especially with their windows up, A/C blasting, radio cranking, and talking on the phone? It might sound loud to you, and it sure as hell sounds loud to the people behind you, but do you really think a car that's three lanes over and up ahead of you traveling 75 mph and getting ready to do an abrupt lane change can actually hear your pipes to the point that they think "oh oh, better not move over, there's a bike behind me somewhere?

Why would your pipes cause people to stop cutting in front of you? That's totally counter-intuitive. If you're in light traffic, why would someone want to be stuck behind you in that cone of noise you're generating, when the sensible thing would be to go around you? In fact, I'd be more apt to think that your loud pipes would cause people to pull in front of you, just to avoid the sound of your pipes. I know there's no way I'd follow a motorcycle with loud pipes down the road if there was any possible way to get around him.

It's fine to disagree with me, because there aren't any studies to prove either position. There are some laws of physics that tend to make the whole loud pipes argument stand on shaky ground, though, i.e.: people ahead of you don't hear you the way you think they do. Relying on your anecdotal experience and the placebo effect might give you a sense of security where there really isn't one.

Here's a clip on Youtube of a guy on a ZX10R passing a line of Harleys on a two lane road. You can tell when he lingers behind some of the bikes that they are running, at the least, modified exhausts. Even through his helmet and the sound of his own engine, you can hear the exhaust on the Harleys ahead of him. What happens as soon as he passes them, and the loud Harley is behind him? All I hear is his own engine. The sound of that loud piped Harley died out immediately as he passed it, yet it's clearly a loud exhaust as he's following it. It's especially noticeable at around 00:40 on the clip. What you hear in the ZX10R rider's helmet at the point he passed that Harley is most likely a way better representation of what the driver of a buttoned up car with the A/C and stereo running hears when you're somewhere behind him.

My experience is that cruiser riders seldom, if ever get over to the right to allow safe within the lane passing .
 

RCinNC

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It depends on what state this is in, SJC. In my home state it's illegal for a motorcycle to overtake and pass in the same lane occupied by the vehicle being overtaken. There's no legal requirement there to yield to a bike trying to pass you in the same lane, so cruisers don't have to move over.
 

WJBertrand

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It depends on what state this is in, SJC. In my home state it's illegal for a motorcycle to overtake and pass in the same lane occupied by the vehicle being overtaken. There's no legal requirement there to yield to a bike trying to pass you in the same lane, so cruisers don't have to move over.
On a multi-lane Highway they are allowed to camp out in the left lane without passing anyone? Really?


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RCinNC

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It means that a motorcycle can't pass another vehicle in the same lane as the other vehicle is traveling in. If you're riding down a two lane road on your bike and there's another bike ahead of you, you can't pass him in the same lane you're both in. You have to wait for a passing zone and pass him in on the left in the other lane. On a mutli lane highway you have to move into the other lane to pass him, you can't pass him in the same lane you're both in.

You can't camp in the left lane on a multi-lane highway with multiple lanes going in the same direction. You have to stay in the right lanes unless you're passing another vehicle, you're driving faster than the flow of traffic, you're moving over to let traffic merge from an on-ramp, or you're using the left lane to make a left turn. If you're in the left lane holding up traffic trying to get past you, you're committing a violation.
 
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SJC

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I’m in Canada.
It’s not a matter of whether or not it’s legal or illegal.
It’s a matter of riding etiquette.

Faster, better handling motorcycles/ riders approach a line of slow riding cruisers. Cruisers ride along at or below the posted speed limit for hours oblivious to other motorcyclists that want to get by them.
This scenario happens almost every time we are out for a tour trying to enjoy the twisties.
It’s very frustrating and their inactions put passing riders in totally unnecessary dangerous situations.
 

greg the pole

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I’m in Canada.
It’s not a matter of whether or not it’s legal or illegal.
It’s a matter of riding etiquette.

Faster, better handling motorcycles/ riders approach a line of slow riding cruisers. Cruisers ride along at or below the posted speed limit for hours oblivious to other motorcyclists that want to get by them.
This scenario happens almost every time we are out for a tour trying to enjoy the twisties.
It’s very frustrating and their inactions put passing riders in totally unnecessary dangerous situations.
Harleys don't move over..especially when they are in a 25 bike human Centepide.
I was on hwy 97 from Cash Creek to Lilooet. There's long enough straights in the valley, that I managed to pass them in one go. Not a single one checked their mirror. The 1st one in row got quite the wake up call when I buzzed him in 5th. They think they own the road.
In this instance, the FJ had a semi quiet exhaust, so I'm sure I didn't upset or wake them up from their bad ass cruising. Now imagine if you're a person in a car stuck behind these muppets doing 10k under the limit, holding up proceedings.

Then again, I've seen two dick squids popping wheelies, rolling burnouts holding up a 30 car que, middle fingers to the person behind them etc..The best part was when they both popped huge ones, over a crest, where there was a constabulary fellow doing radar checks...they got pulled instantly, and the person behind them that was getting the finger pulled over as well, for you know...reasons.
There's douche bags in every walk of life.

Do what works for you. Enjoy the ride.
 

greg the pole

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
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I'm not aware of any actual scientifically conducted studies about whether or not loud pipes have any effect on safety, so until one is done, it's always going to come down to anecdotal information about its perceived safety value.

But come on....the whole "loud pipes save lives" mantra originated with Harley riders, long before squids were putting fart cans on their Gixxers. And these same Harley riders seem to be totally immune to the irony that, as they roll down the roads rattling windows and annoying the hell out of the public as their loud pipes save their lives, they're doing it helmetless, in t-shirts, and fingerless gloves. It would seem that a lot of the whole lifesaving pipes philosophy is nothing more than a cover for an adult version of "hey Mom, Mom, Mom, look at me, are you looking, hey Mom!!". How interested in saving your own life can you really be, if you eschew actual safety gear and rely on your Vance and Hines Ego Booster Exhaust to protect your ass?

As for getting someone's attention by "grabbin' some clutch and givin' them some red hot revs", there actually was already a device on your bike for that; it's that button strategically placed close to your thumb called a "horn". You know, that thing that actually faces towards the person whose attention you're trying to get, rather than facing away from them like your pipes? And yep, the horns on bikes are pretty pitiful from the factory. But that awesome $500.00 exhaust you put on your bike that really sounds bitchin' (but hey, it's there for safety) could be replaced by a $30.00 Stebel Nautilus that sounds like an 18 wheeler's horn and was actually designed to, you know, warn people up ahead of you.

Guys like making noise; it's in our DNA, I think. Hopefully you grow out of it at some point. Definitely, I hope you grow out of it before you and your straight pipe Road Glide or Hayabusa move in next door to me.
I have three stiebels on the shelf. They work for a bit. But eventually fill up with crap. Yes they work. Handfull of gas will wake them up. Unless you're stone deaf you will hear it. Whatever floats your boat, sinks your sub.
 
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