KTM 1190

kgfire

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The KTM has two personalities, below 6000 rpm the engine is a little disappointing and leaves you wondering where the 150 hp. is. Crank the throttle at about 5500 rpm in sport mode and Hang On!
Where the Yamaha is all torque and low rpm power the KTM has to spool up to make serious power but by then you're going really fast!
To me the most significant difference between the KTM and the Yamaha is the weight and handling. KTM wins.
 

Rasher

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kgfire said:
The KTM has two personalities, below 6000 rpm the engine is a little disappointing and leaves you wondering where the 150 hp. is. Crank the throttle at about 5500 rpm in sport mode and Hang On!
The S10 has a decent advantage below 3,000rpm, by about 4,000 the KTM has easily caught up, mine is trying to lift the front wheel from about 4,000 rpm in 2nd.

Due to having an extra 25% more revs to play with (revs past 10,000 rpm) means it is also lower geared which means the torque is amplified, and your revving a little higher at the same speed - my guess is each gear is between 10% and 15% lower geared than the S10 which makes up for the slight lack below 4k. Not forgetting it also has about 20% less weight to lug around.

This bike is very fast even when shifting at the 6500 rpm running in speed.

Off for a 2,000+ mile jaunt shortly so will get a much better idea of how it compares as the S10's biggest strength was the way it just devoured long trips.
 

Checkswrecks

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Re: Got a short test drive on a 1190

Rasher said:
. . .
yada
. . .
yada
. . .
yada
. . .

Even running in at 6500 rpm the TC light goes mad if you wind it on hard from anything over 3,000rpm in 2nd, I think shifting at 6500 on this thing it is probably quicker than a stock S10 is being caned to the redline, on the demo bike the front wheel barely touched the ground until over 100mph when I ran it along my private airfield (in sport mode, in street the TC keeps everything really level and smooth)

You have a private airfield?


:p
pant pant pant
 

Rasher

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Yes, every UK biker has one, did you not know that :question:
 

decooney

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dragonflyTN said:
...At this point, I'm eagerly awaiting the chance to test ride both a 2015 Super T to a stock 2015 KTM 1290 Super Adventure.
Exactly, seems like a more valid comparison. When I started down the ADV path and coming off KTM bikes, I had my Orange goggles on for a bit before the test rides. In the end I preferred the ST ES handling and suspension on the road to the 1190, but the 1290 might be yet another comparison. So far I've intentionally avoided that test ride as I've got quite a few miles to go on the S10 before I do anything else. :)
 

Rasher

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Now clocked up almost 3000 miles with a 2000+ mile trip last week.

Pretty much all of my original thoughts hold true, but now have the benefit of a decent trip and a mix of every type of road (note the word Road)

I am not sure too many folk would rally be trying to figure out if the wanted a KTM1190 or an S10, Maybe KTM Vs Ducati, or even against the BMW S1000XR, but not so much against the Jap competition which most people would regard as cheaper to buy and maintain and less affected by big mileages with regard to re-sale value and post-warranty reliability.

The KTM is much lighter, far more powerful and has a chain drive (getting more of the power to the road) if speed is your thing the S10 really does not get a look in, maybe it has a bit more lug in the lower 1/3rd of the useable rev range, but in reality the KTM overtakes it in a nanosecond pulling hard from 3500rpm and going full on mental at 6,000rpm.

I have found when cruising the KTM "feels" a little awkward below about 60-65 in top, it runs fine at this speed and is smooth enough (in fact it is far smoother than the Gen1 S10 I had at all revs feeling more like a 4 cylinder bike in this regard) but it feels "right" from about an indicated 70 (with a similar 6-7% speedo inaccuracy to the Gen1 S10)

In the handling stakes I am sure the lighter weight, racier geometry and better suspension mean the KTM is quicker in the right hands, in my hands I doubt I go anything other than a smidge quicker in the bends, although when riding hard it certainly exists bends quicker. What is most noticeable is how much better the suspension is, both at riding bumps and tackling corners, even in "comfort" mode the ride is very controlled with very little wallowing, and in the stiffest "Sport" mode it is still better on bumps - the front being most noticeably improved over the S10.

The whole electronics package is very good, the Normal and Sport throttle modes I think give the same response, but the TC is less "intrusive" in Sport allowing the front wheel to skim along barely touching the ground most of the time and occasionally lifting a shade, in normal it is still very good at preventing any spin or front wheel lift - less intrusive than the S10 setup even in this mode, mucho whacking open of throttle in 1st / 2nd gear Alpine hairpins failed to faze it.

As mentioned the suspension seems very good, giving a fantastic ride on all surfaces, I used Comfort on all except the smoothest roads on my trip as it worked so well, only feeling a shade soft on fast flowing pristine tarmac where it would start to feel a shade wallowy - and "normal" fixed that without compromising comfort much.

Talking of comfort, for my 6'1 frame the bike was as good as the S10 and the "comfort" seat (optional extra) was much better than I remember the standard Super Tenere seat being (in fact I preferred it to my modified S10 seat) and it seemed to give good leg room and comfy arm positions (bars and footpegs both have an alternate position along with two heights for the seat)

The only area I really preferred the S10 was on very slow speed (sub 15mph) hairpins where the KTM felt a bit less stable, by 20mph it was fine, but with the S10 I could throw it over onto the peg at speeds as low as 15mph and it felt stable and secure.

Not forgetting the Yamaha's shaft drive (not liking having a chain again) legendary reliability (I would not think twice about keeping the Yamaha for 50,000 miles, whereas the KTM will be gone before 20k) cheap running costs (Easy home service / low indie servicing prices Vs Expensive specialist KTM dealers)

Overall a great bike if you want a comfy sporty bike, but if that is what someone wants the S10 should not be a consideration, and if you want a bulletproof rugged Adventure bike I would not have though the KTM should be on your list either.

For me it is a great blend of performance, handling and comfort and I will love riding it for a while - but that is the point, I cannot see me keeping it for 4 years and 23,000 miles like I did the S10 - and had a great deal not come along the S10 would have been with me for another year / 6000 miles.
 

greg the pole

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thanks for the honest review.

too often guys get caught up in praising their new bike and cutting down the old one.

All your points are valid. The ktm is incredible as far as base spec components. My KTM 300XC 2 stroke, needs nothing. It gets beat on regularly, has excellent stock suspension that can be made to suit with spring/oil level changes, and a monster motor.
That said, I think that the more complicated the KTM the more problem prone it would be. I'm not sure how well a 1190R would fare in my hands after 75 thou KM, VS the Tenere.
Certainly the Tenere is easier to work on, and far more reliable.

I would buy the 1190r in a flash, but somehow feel held back...for reasons of overall reliability, fit and finish, and ease of repair..
 

frez

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Glad you are loving it. Servicing costs, potential reliability issues and reports of heat on the family jewels on the 1190 put me off it when I was looking to change.
 

JRE

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Surprised no one has mentioned the cost of KTM maintenance and parts. That's usually the first thing people bitch about.
 

Rasher

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JRE said:
Surprised no one has mentioned the cost of KTM maintenance and parts. That's usually the first thing people bitch about.
I am sure I will when it gets to 9,000 miles / 1 year and needs a service - but so far it has cost nothing ::008::

The heat issue sure does exist as I discovered when in traffic in 30+ degrees, when moving it is not at all noticeable even at temperatures in the mid-high 20's, but in traffic it quickly builds up, I found splaying my legs made it bearable.

Considering my trip involved hot weather all week and it only really annoyed me a couple of times (and then only when in traffic) means I am not that bothered, but I would not recommend the bike for a lot of town use or commuting in heavy congestion - in fact not sure I would recommend any large capacity adventure machine for such work, but it is another box the Yamaha ticks for those keeping score ::)

Would love to see someone beat the crap out of one of these things for 50,000+ miles, did see a magazine article that did a 50,000km strip down (30,000 miles) and declared the engine like-new with the exception of a couple of valve springs on the service limit. But this is not the same as many years of use representative of average UK owner who would take 5-6 years to clock that up.
 

greg the pole

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Rasher said:
I am sure I will when it gets to 9,000 miles / 1 year and needs a service - but so far it has cost nothing ::008::

The heat issue sure does exist as I discovered when in traffic in 30+ degrees, when moving it is not at all noticeable even at temperatures in the mid-high 20's, but in traffic it quickly builds up, I found splaying my legs made it bearable.

Considering my trip involved hot weather all week and it only really annoyed me a couple of times (and then only when in traffic) means I am not that bothered, but I would not recommend the bike for a lot of town use or commuting in heavy congestion - in fact not sure I would recommend any large capacity adventure machine for such work, but it is another box the Yamaha ticks for those keeping score ::)

Would love to see someone beat the crap out of one of these things for 50,000+ miles, did see a magazine article that did a 50,000km strip down (30,000 miles) and declared the engine like-new with the exception of a couple of valve springs on the service limit. But this is not the same as many years of use representative of average UK owner who would take 5-6 years to clock that up.
I think the bugs are slowly being worked out of the KTMs. The early 2013/2014s had big issues (air box mainly).
KTM parts are more expensive, that said, they go through them like every other bike. The intervals are not super short, so that's good.

The big issue I found with the KTM when working on a friends 1190, that it's a pig to get to the air box the first time. It's very time consuming vs the tenere. Now in defence of the 1190, the new AT is a pig as well, and several other bikes follow the same principle (2012 and up DL650)
Also, fit and finish is sub par IMO. When you look closer at the wiring looms, how they were run etc...but that's just my ocd kicking in.

I'll be in the market late next year for a 700CC plus adv bike. The choices will be (Likely in order): XT700 (If it shows up), AT (if they are smart enough to supply tubless rims), 1190R.
If I can't, I'll rebuild my tenere's top end (starting to use oil-valve seal(s) are the main culprit), and ride it for another 50K. At this point it owes me absolutely nothing.

If I do get a new bike, I will likely keep it for another 75-85k KM, so it needs to last.
 

greg the pole

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arjayes said:
Greg -

I assume this one's on your radar as well, then:

https://www.motorbeam.com/2016/06/bikes/ktm/parallel-twin-ktm-800cc-adventure-motorcycle-launch-in-2017/

Although I doubt it will have tubeless rims. Certainly sounds intriguing, though, and you know it will be much lighter than the XT700 or AT.

Bob
Hi Bob,

I don't think I would consider the new KTM parallel twin. It would be a new motor, components etc.. at a premium price.
The 1190 has several years of growing pains found and fixed. Great components, and a motor, that will set your hair on fire.
The AT is going through growing pains now (under sprung suspension, minor switch issues, some reported DCT issues, wheel corrosion issues) most minor.

I doubt they will be able to get close to the weight of the XT700. As it will be a KLR on steroids, with a peach of a motor (better IMO than the tenere...much better)
It will be based on the FZ07/MT07, those bikes are 400LB fully fuelled. Add another 45LB for fairing, a centerstand (hopefully) and it would be a great package. It will be basic, which isn't bad (ABS only), and it will likely have tubed tires. That said, they have the rims from the Tenere, just increase the hoops to 21/18" and you're good to go.
 

arjayes

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greg the pole said:
Hi Bob,

I don't think I would consider the new KTM parallel twin. It would be a new motor, components etc.. at a premium price.
The 1190 has several years of growing pains found and fixed. Great components, and a motor, that will set your hair on fire.
The AT is going through growing pains now (under sprung suspension, minor switch issues, some reported DCT issues, wheel corrosion issues) most minor.

I doubt they will be able to get close to the weight of the XT700. As it will be a KLR on steroids, with a peach of a motor (better IMO than the tenere...much better)
It will be based on the FZ07/MT07, those bikes are 400LB fully fuelled. Add another 45LB for fairing, a centerstand (hopefully) and it would be a great package. It will be basic, which isn't bad (ABS only), and it will likely have tubed tires. That said, they have the rims from the Tenere, just increase the hoops to 21/18" and you're good to go.
Interesting to hear your take the KTM twin, Greg. They're going to develop the Duke first, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the new twin adventure not show up until 2018. That's been their cadence with the 690 platform (Duke first, then Enduro R a year later). I'm very interested in a lighter fuel-injected alternative to the Tenere. Weight has always been my only major complaint about it (well, maybe the stock suspension as well). But it fits me great and I still love it. The KTM will have better suspension than the XT700 out of the box and I'm betting will be lighter. Depends how KTM approaches the design. Hopefully it will be a bit more 690 Enduro than 1190 Adventure. If so then it should come in under 400 lbs wet.

After having no decent options between the enduro race bikes (KTM, Husky) and the pig adventure bikes (other than maybe the 690 enduro), it's great to see new bikes coming out to fill that gap.

Bob
 

greg the pole

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arjayes said:
Interesting to hear your take the KTM twin, Greg. They're going to develop the Duke first, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the new twin adventure not show up until 2018. That's been their cadence with the 690 platform (Duke first, then Enduro R a year later). I'm very interested in a lighter fuel-injected alternative to the Tenere. Weight has always been my only major complaint about it (well, maybe the stock suspension as well). But it fits me great and I still love it. The KTM will have better suspension than the XT700 out of the box and I'm betting will be lighter. Depends how KTM approaches the design. Hopefully it will be a bit more 690 Enduro than 1190 Adventure. If so then it should come in under 400 lbs wet.

After having no decent options between the enduro race bikes (KTM, Husky) and the pig adventure bikes (other than maybe the 690 enduro), it's great to see new bikes coming out to fill that gap.

Bob
I'm on the same page as you regarding suspension.
I've upgraded all my suspension on the ST and the FJ09, and the results are amazing.
On my XC300, I still need to dial out the harshness out of my front end, but it has little to do with crappy valving, rather volume and grade of oil.

You either pay up front (KTM) or pay later (Yamaha)

The only difference between KTM and Y is that KTM build their bikes with an intention to a given use. That said, they did build the 1190 motor, then used it in 5 different models :D

Y will build them, and put the motor in different applications, which is not wrong, but may not be as pure. That said, they save money and pass the savings on.

Maybe the above is actually the same exact thing...

I've had many nights thinking what and if I really need to upgrade my ST. Time will tell when the new stuff comes out, and if my wallet and my wife will let me get a new bike.
 

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Rasher I just checked in for the first time in a while. Good luck with the new ride. You can join me on the list of defectors that still love the site!
 

Rasher

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Donk said:
Rasher I just checked in for the first time in a while. Good luck with the new ride. You can join me on the list of defectors that still love the site!
Great site, I think the type of people that buy the S10 are pretty down to earth, would not rule out buying another one day.
 
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