Intro and Question

[MemphisDan]

My name is Dan and I am supposed to take delivery of a Raven S-10 on Tuesday but want to know if the price I am going to pay for a 2012 so near the 2013 release is good.

I currently have an 05 KLR with lots of good memories and an 04 Goldwing and really have wanted a bigger ADV Touring bike for a while.... After stumbling upon the S-10 and reading this forum I decided to take a close look at the tenere and decided that is the bike for me.

I am sure there is a thread somewhere about what is a good price to pay OTD from a dealer but I wanted to pose this to the forum to see what you guys think. My local dealer is selling a demo with 380 miles on it for 11,666. With his fees and tax it works out to right at 13000 OTD.

I wanted to know before I pull the trigger if you guys think I am getting a good deal.

Thanks for Any Input,
Dan

 

[EricV]

Welcome to the forum.

It's not a bad price, though there are cheaper prices out there. (I paid more, but on a harder to get PDP bike, and I did get the 4 year YES thrown in) I'd argue he should eat his fees, since it's a demo bike. Also work on him to throw in the 4 year YES extended warranty, because hey, you don't know how it was broken in since it's a demo. He'll tell you that costs anywhere from $500-1000, but it only costs him <$400, if that and can be bought anytime during the first year warranty from any dealer. You can get them online for around $400, IIRC.

Kind of silly to charge you set-up fees on a demo, for example. Taxes are unavoidable though. I'm not sure when the '13s will be coming out, Yamaha usually releases the next year model info in Sept, but bikes will be later by a wide margin. I don't even know if they are still doing the PDP for '13 since they brought in bikes to dealers in '12, after doing a PDP for the first round.

You can get a new '12 for $11,998 from Santa Rosa Powersports in CA. No idea what fees and taxes might add. Tejas Motorsports in TX is selling them at $10, 999 and will ship bikes. Both of these are ads in Cycle Trader from known to be reputable dealers.

Honda Yamaha of Memphis has a new one at $12,599.

 

[rem]

Welcome on, Dan. I can't offer any advice, except don't buy one in Canada ::025:: ::025::


Sounds like Eric gave you some good advice. I agree about the fees. Sounds a bit bogus to me. And the extended warranty is a good idea .... in theory, this should cost them nothing but is a very nice benefit to have.


Good luck with whatever you decide to do. You'll end up with a great bike. ::004:: R. ::022::

 

[MemphisDan]

You really have me a little concerned about buying a demo because I really don't know how it was ridden for those 380 miles. I'm I really taking a chance?. Bottom line: it's a fair price?

Now that I think about it people usually ride a Demo pretty hard. Even if it was ridden HARD, do you guys think it could really hurt the bike too bad?


I guess I should have asked these questions before jumping on it! I Guess i have been wanting one of these for so long i just got carried away. It's not a done deal until I actually take delivery.....

 

[nondairycreamer]

As for the demo take it for a 200 mile test drive. Most people never thrash a demo, especially a new model on the market because it is a totally unknown as for how it will react to their hooliganism. And very few will approach the limits of the bike. Some demo rides are led at less than exciting speeds and the other demos are along a suggested route which few will deviate from not wanting to cause anxiety to the dealer when not returning on time. A few will try to loft the front wheel and most will give it a couple of hard acceleration tests. I really don't see how any demo will be damaged. People looking for a thrill ride or wanting to trash a bike will head for the sport bikes. The 200 mile test is for your own confidence building, check the oil level when warmed properly and check it when returning. Determine if the oils have been changed and get that done. Get a feel for the clutch and transmission action. Stop somewhere for a drink and look it over closely. Buy the extended warranty if you like but this is a Yamaha. I would look at the demo as a chance to get a bike at a better price with some of the running in done for me.

 

[EricV]

You really have me a little concerned about buying a demo because I really don't know how it was ridden for those 380 miles. Am I really taking a chance?. Bottom line: it's a fair price?

Now that I think about it people usually ride a Demo pretty hard. Even if it was ridden HARD, do you guys think it could really hurt the bike too bad?


I guess I should have asked these questions before jumping on it! I Guess i have been wanting one of these for so long i just got carried away. It's not a done deal until I actually take delivery.....

I think it's a fair price for your area. I would not worry about the 380 demo mile a bit, BUT, I would seriosly act like that was on the verge of being a deal breaking with the sales guy at the dealer. "Gee, I don't know, some of the demo riders could have thrashed the bike during that time... How about you toss in the 4 year YES factory extended warranty so I know I won't have to worry if something goes wrong?"

Even if it was ridden HARD, then it's probably got a better break in that if it was ridding gently. I always do a MotoMan break in on my bikes and the Yamaha's really seem to like it. Even for this bike with 380 miles, I'd go do a motoman break in, then change the oil and filter. That way you know where you are starting from. At that point, ride it like you normally would, or if you choose follow the Yamaha instructions to avoid prolonged high rpms for the rest of the 1k break in miles.

 

[Rasher]

You really have me a little concerned about buying a demo because I really don't know how it was ridden for those 380 miles. I'm I really taking a chance?. Bottom line: it's a fair price?

I bought an Ex-Dem and rather hope it wasn't nursed along glazing up the bores, it arrived with 150 miles on it, I did a 5 mile run, dropped the oil (Engine and FD) re-filled oil with cheapo semi-synth and popped on a new filter, and some high quality FD oil in the drive and then went off to bed it in properly.

Really can't see how any real harm can come to a modern motor, with the rev limiter you can't over-rev a modern motor and the only thing I can see doing any harm would be caning from cold, but with most dems the dealer will fire it up and talk you through the controls so it will at least have the oil warmed up a bit and circulating nicely before the tester sets off.

OK maybe some twonks done a few wheelies, whats the worst :question: A bit of extra clutch wear or headrace damage - both cheap fixes and would be covered by warranty if it failed really early, and a new clutch and head bearings will still be far less than the discount on an ex-dem.

I saved £2600 on buying my Ex-Dem, That's a full 3 box set of Trax luggage, 3-way adjustable custom built Wilburs shock, fork re-valve and Diapson Re-Flash ::013::

Perhaps this will help

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

[oregon-rider]

They ordered my Blue ::008::S10 in April and I got it late March for 12.500 . I think you are getting a good deal except its BLACK ? ::022::

 

[MemphisDan]

I think it's a fair price for your area. I would not worry about the 380 demo mile a bit, BUT, I would seriosly act like that was on the verge of being a deal breaking with the sales guy at the dealer. "Gee, I don't know, some of the demo riders could have thrashed the bike during that time... How about you toss in the 4 year YES factory extended warranty so I know I won't have to worry if something goes wrong?"

Even if it was ridden HARD, then it's probably got a better break in that if it was ridding gently. I always do a MotoMan break in on my bikes and the Yamaha's really seem to like it. Even for this bike with 380 miles, I'd go do a motoman break in, then change the oil and filter. That way you know where you are starting from. At that point, ride it like you normally would, or if you choose follow the Yamaha instructions to avoid prolonged high rpms for the rest of the 1k break in miles.

Eric,
Thanks for putting my mind to rest about buying a demo. I had no idea what you meant by a "motoman" break in. I appreciate the link Rasher. I read about the motoman break in and figured the way people ride a demo probably was better as a break in than babying it.
The only thing is with 380 miles it is way past the 20 initial oil change he suggests. With the exception that I had my bank is Fedexing a check to the dealer.... I have a few tools in the belt for when I go in on Tuesday. I wish I hadn't jumped the gun

I have to decide if I am willing to walk if he won't at least wave the setup ($299) in exchange for the 4 yr YES. I KNOW HE WILL SAY THAT IS WHY HE DISCOUNTED IT TO 11666.
I can't tell you how excited I am to get this bike!! I love both my KLR and Goldwing - this is like the perfect do everything bike for me. I can't wait to go back to the Four Corners, Moab, Silverton etc etc

 

[MemphisDan]

They ordered my Blue ::008::S10 in April and I got it late March for 12.500 . I think you are getting a good deal except its BLACK ? ::022::

Did that 12500 include fees? I don't mean taxes and title stuff... We all have to give the gov his cut. If that the case this bike is really 12000. 11699 + 299.
Just wondering
Dan

 

[EricV]

Eric,
Thanks for putting my mind to rest about buying a demo. I had no idea what you meant by a "motoman" break in. I appreciate the link Rasher. I read about the motoman break in and figured the way people ride a demo probably was better as a break in than babying it.
The only thing is with 380 miles it is way past the 20 initial oil change he suggests.

Worth asking if they have changed the oil/filter & FD oil. If they say yes, ask them to show you documentation of that. If they say no, frown and walk away a bit, or cross your arms, etc, some form of body language indicating that doesn't make you happy, then perhaps ask if they will toss in your first 600 mile service for free. (then go do your own break in ride & change the oil/filter/FD oil and later show up 'late' for the 600 mile service at say, 1k miles. ;D

You have lots of fun roads to explore. You don't want to stress over the bike. Honestly, No reason to either, but work it for what ever you can to get stuff from the dealer or a lower price.

Come back and let us know how it went, we're pulling for you!

 

[MurphCO]

Does
It
Have
Panniers
?


With panniers and top case, I would say yeah it's a good deal IF they include the warranty. They have wiggle room and can include the warranty, it's the least they can do for a demo bike.



Also, I am one of those hooligans that will put a demo through its paces, so my view of a demo is skewed....on my demo ride I got the front tire off the ground twice, my bike was built out of the crate and had .3 miles on delivery.?..didn't buy the demo (because it was blue)

 

[Karson]

I'd ask them to sweeten the deal a bit, perhaps a 4 year YES warranty or luggage. Who knows how many bikes they sold because they let folks demo YOUR bike (perhaps). Don't sweat it about it being a demo bike, IMO.

 

[jajpko]

You don't have to take the bike. Ask for the check back, or have your bank stop payment and pay the small fee.
If the dealer won't come to your terms, walk away and buy another bike. There are plenty of 2012 bikes for sale. JMHO

 

[Combo]

Dan, Jim is right and you don't have to take the bike, but if you like the deal and dealer, then what the heck. What's a few dollars to buy local.
This guy may save you a lot of money later with parts and service? Ask him about that and see what he says. A local dealer that does you right and takes care of you means a lot.

 

[howie ronic]

I paid $14K out the door new in a land of crazy taxes (9.9%) and missed the boat on a used S10 with 1500 miles for $12.5K. I would have bought it, even though it was blue. It's a bullet proof bike, so I wouldn't be concerned about it being hammered during the demo. It probably never left the pavement and got revved a little. That's not going to hurt it. Do check on the oil and drive shaft fluids being changed prior to purchase. Don't worry about demands when dealing for a bike, it never hurts to ask for more. All they can say is no. Cheers, enjoy the ride.

 

[barkingllizard]

a simple hello, MemphisDan.....

 

[MemphisDan]

I appreciate all the input and welcomes to the forum.

My trip back to the the dealer didn't go as well as I had hoped. I decided that since I didn't get to do the break in the way I wanted that I should try to get him to include the 4 year YES warranty and see where that went. He wanted to charge me 590 dollars and wouldn't budge on the dealer prep charge of 299. I figured if he would split his cost with me... I would go with it...
My decision wasn't totally on price. I decided that 13032 TTL - OTD on the demo was in my price range and that "to me" it was worth it. I'm sure the bike wasn't hurt by being a demo.

I will either buy NEW or slightly used from someone who did a good breakin and slightly farkled the bike.

The upside is I just paid off my wifes truck and have no vehicle payments so SAVING for a new one should be easier. Besides we just might get more color choices in a couple months.

Dan

 

[Dirt_Dad]

My trip back to the the dealer didn't go as well as I had hoped.

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear you're having an unpleasant dealership experience. Sounds like what I would go through if I used the dealer 5 minutes from my house...so I never use them.

If you want a good price and great buying experience you can always give Larry a call at Romney Cycle.
http://www.romneycycles.com/
I bought both my Teneres there. They are used to dealing with out of state/long distance buyers and they don't play any BS games, like setup or other made-up crap. Plus you get to know your bike on a nice ride home on the twisty roads of WV.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. The S10 is a fantastic bike.

 

[The Rotund One]

I am very critical of bad service and had a positive buying experience at Abernathy's in Union City http://www.abernathycycles.com/ . Like Dirt Dad's dealer, no BS, setup, doc fees or any of that other crap.

The last time I was up there, they had a blue one AND a ( faster ) black one in stock. They are supposed to be getting a dedicated demo bike soon as well.