Ignition Key and Imobilizer system

[toompine]

Why do manufacturers feel compelled to make things like ignition keys so complex that simple mistakes in their use of damage gets to be very expensive. Kawasaki Concours, Ducati Multistrada 1200 and now apparently the Tenere. Peruse these conditions for the use of a key.

DO NOT LOSE THE CODE REREGISTERING KEY! CONTACT YOUR DEALER IMMEDIATELY IF IT IS LOST!
If the code re-registering key is lost, registering new codes in the standard keys is impossible.

The standard keys can still be used to start the vehicle, however if code reregistering is required i.e., if a new standard key is made or all keys are lost the entire immobilizer system must be replaced. ??? Therefore, it is highly recommended to use either standard key and keep the code re-registering key in a safe place.

• Do not submerse any key in water. (Ah.. this is an off road adventure tourer that crosses streams! )
• Do not expose any key to excessively high temperatures. (Tenere desert comes to mind)
• Do not place any key close to magnets this includes, but not limited to, products such as speakers, etc..
• Do not place items that transmit electrical signals close to any key. (GPS, Spot telephone?)
• Do not place heavy items on any key. (Like an upside down Tenere?)
• Do not grind any key or alter its shape.
• Do not disassemble the plastic part of any key.
• Do not put two keys of any immobilizer system on the same key ring.

Keep the standard keys as well as keys of other immobilizer systems away from this vehicle’s
code re-registering key. (No touchy! ???)

Keep other immobilizer system keys away from the main switch as they may cause signal interference. ( Like in keep the spare key that you carry away from the immobilizer or it will screw up the works )

 

[pqsqac]

I'm just glad it doesn't have a KIPASS system like the C14 does. No personal experience but reading the forum about it was enough to make me nervous about owning one.

 

[ptfjjj]

If you ever have any trouble with this system, or you lose you re-registering key, I wonder if you can replace the system with a standard ignition system and leave the hassles behind?

 

[fredz43]

Let's hope the USA models don't have this.

 

[Kevhunts]

A lot of cars have had this feature for years with out any problems. I know some BMW bikes have had some ring antenna failures but, this is a YAMAHA. ;D

Be sure to tell your insurance agent your bike has this feature. Who knows, you might get a discount.

 

[2XADV]

If you ever have any trouble with this system, or you lose you re-registering key, I wonder if you can replace the system with a standard ignition system and leave the hassles behind?

The idea of replacing your ignition system to get rid of the Imobilizer probably will probably not work. The bike's main ECU/Computer is looking for this immobilizer coded signal and will not let the bike start without it. And a replacement ECU will still be looking for this signal. We are out of luck if we want to avoid this immobilizer. The only way is to wire/attach a waterproofed imobilizer equipped key top to the ignition somehow and then use a non-imobilizer key for normal use. I have read somewhere that is how the factory racers do it so they don't need to think about the immobilizer anymore.

 

[Chadx]

Easy does it gents! Let's not get worked up about something that seems to be a none issue unless proven otherwise. At this point, we have no data that suggests there will be a problem. As Kevhunts says, pretty much all modern autos have this type of system. When is the last time you had an issue with your car key? Let's not panic about something that has yet to fail or cause problems. I'll be one of the first in line to do so if this system proves to have problems, but until then, I'm not going to think twice about it. Just because one manufacturer has a system that has issues doesn't mean any other system will. There are bikes out there with similar systems in use and most owners don't even realize it because they simply work. You only hear about the one that doesn't. In the end, if this doesn't cause any issues and it makes a specific bike model less likely to be stolen or useless if it is, then it's a good thing, not a bad thing.

It's also likely that all the Yamaha warnings are a bit overblown. They always said the same thing about credit cards (cell phones used to be able to mess with the magnetic strip as did rubbing two credit card bars facing one another). It would occasionally happen (hence the warnings) but was very rare. My guess is any interference or scrambling issues are not going to be much of an issue. I'll probably avoid blatant breaking of those rules, but in general it should be fine. I'll keep the master key in my safe. I already don't have a key chain or any keys attached to my bike's key (because the wind just whips the whole mess around and beats up everything nearby). I won't put it in an oven/fire/microwave/washing machine, rub my key against a magnet or my cell phone or someone's SPOT (by the way, GPS do not transmit, only receive. So they won't be an issue). I won't grind on it, smash it, or leave is submerged in water. If any of those things occur, I might have bigger problems. Ha.

It will be a good idea to have a couple extra keys made immediately. On long trips, I'll bring one spare with me. I'll always have one spare (besides the master key) laying at home in a place where my wife for someone can easily find it if I need them to bring it, or mail it, to me (worst case scenario). But then, one should already do these things even with standard keys since it is far more likely for you to loose a key than for it to stop functioning. These things are just part of trip planning and being prepared.

I'll anxiously await the thread about the potential for the shaft drives to fail. Ha. Just pokin' fun. >

 

[fredz43]

You are all assuming that the USA bikes will have the Immoblilzer systems and in fact, they may not. I know that several Honda models, including the ST1100 and ST1300 have them in Euro models but not in USA models, so we shall see when they get here. I have a friend with a Euro Honda Varadero over here and he has a problem with that system right now and unfortunately the dealers he has checked with here say they don't have access to whatever diagnostic software is required to troubleshoot it. I have heard that this system is on the Euro units because of regulations, but even though I don't know that for sure, it seems to exlain why Honda bikes don't have them here.

In any case, we will see what our bikes have when they arrive.

 

[20valves]

Euro FJR's had immobilizers, USA models did not.

 

[Motorcyclisted]

I would welcome the use of the Immobilizer system. Should add a little value to the S10 or at least help justify the sticker price. We may just have to handle the key cautiously.

 

[markjenn]

I view this as another six-for-one/half-dozen-for-the-other, good-side vs. dark-side of technology issues. The immobilizer systems do make it MUCH harder to steal a bike, but they also result in expensive keys that you have to take a little caution with and not lose. In any event, they're more or less de rigueur in cars these days and the bikes are following suit - I would be very surprised if the US S10's don't have them.

As others have said, I wouldn't over-react to that diatribe from Yamaha. This is just cover-their-ass language that is all over the OM. These systems, when properly designed, are fairly robust. But not foolproof. So don't be a fool.

Assuming the bike has the system, I wouldn't have much hope you could bypass it, at least not without a different ECU.

- Mark

 

[fredz43]

If they do have them I would advise a word of caution to those that have the OEM hard bags. I have read reports from owners that the locks can be a bit fiddly and you can bend or break a key if you don't remember to push down on the lid before locking or unlocking them. When we had one of the Yamaha demo units at our local dealer in January, we found this to be the case. The key already had a bend in it and we straightened it as best we could. It wouldn't take much more to break it, so the dealer had another key made. It was a standard key, so, of course, it wouldn't start the bike, but he put it in the saddlebags to use to demonstrate opening and/or removing them so he wouldn't have to subject the igintion key to any more chance of damage.

I suppose that if this did happen, you could keep the original key portion with the sending unit in your pocket and use a standard duplicate. I know that I would save a bit on insurance, but don't know how much. I would rather not have it and would bet a nickel (big spender!) that ours don't have them.

 

[markjenn]

I suppose that if this did happen, you could keep the original key portion with the sending unit in your pocket and use a standard duplicate.

Someone can chime in with hard info about the Euro bikes, but I doubt the S10 immobilizer system is like the C14's where there is a separate sending unit that you can keep in your pocket that communicates with the bike when in proximity of it. Instead, I believe these systems are passive and require that one of the three provided coded keys be in the ignition switch (not in your pocket) for the bike to start.

If you lose keys, there is a process to get new ones made but they'll certainly cost more than non-coded keys and you'll need to have the "master" re-registering key. That's why they make a big deal about keeping the master key someplace safe and not making it your day-to-day key. As you suggest, I would think you could have separate non-coded "luggage keys" made if you were worried about breaking an expensive coded key in the luggage. But they wouldn't start the bike.

I would rather not have it and would bet a nickel (big spender!) that ours don't have them.

I can't find anything official from Yamaha USA that lists the immobilizer, but it is listed on the Yamaha Canada S10 features list and I'd be very surprised if this feature is on Canadian bikes and not the US. From:

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=3631&section=ft&group=M#contentTop

Immobilizer ignition system is designed to reduce the possibility of "ride away" theft. This system must recognize the "coded ignition key" in order for the unit to start. If the immobilizer ignition does not recognize the key (or a thief's screwdriver or other type of "jimmy tool") the bike will not start even if the ignition is turned or forced into the on position. If the system does not recognize the coded chip in the ignition key, it will not allow the ignition system, fuel pump or starter motor to function.

- Mark

 

[AL-58]

• Do not put two keys of any immobilizer system on the same key ring.

Keep the standard keys as well as keys of other immobilizer systems away from this vehicle’s
code re-registering key. (No touchy! ???)

Thats a funny one, my bike was delivered with all the keys on the one keyring.

I wonder how BMWs immobiliser system varies. We had a housefire over a year ago, I got two of the bikes out of the garage, couldnt move the other two as the keys were upstairs in the bit that was on fire. Anyway, to get my wifes F650GS and R1150R going again, we had to get new keys (lost in the fire). The 650GS has chipped key immobiliser system, but we just oredred new keys from the dealer using the VIN number of the bikes, they worked with no problem at all, did not have to replace the entire system. Any ideas?

Al


PS the two bikes left to fend for themselves got away with some burnt spots and are still being ridden today.

 

[fredz43]

The way I recall our experiment with the display unit when we had the replacement key made was that it would not start the bike until we got close to it with the original key. If the C14 system is like the new Multistrada unit, you do not need to have a key in the ignition at all, you just have to have the sending unit near the bike and then push the start button. It appeared that the S10 sending unit was in the key, perhaps in the large tab, but the other key would work if the original key was near it, within a few feet.

Of course, that was 2 months ago and I've slept since then.

 

[markjenn]

Thats a funny one, my bike was delivered with all the keys on the one keyring.
but we just oredred new keys from the dealer using the VIN number of the bikes, they worked with no problem at all, did not have to replace the entire system. Any ideas?

My guess is that the hardware is pretty similar between the BMW and Yamaha systems, but that the Yamaha is more sophisticated from a software standpoint and less prone to theft.

It appears the BMW system keeps a central repository for the master codes that dealers can access by VIN. So anybody who has access to the system and VINs can potentially make the coded keys that will start any bike in the field. In contrast, the Yamaha system appears to have some kind of code embedded ONLY in the master key and the master key code and ECU are paired in some way so that new keys can only be produced for that ECU if you have the master key. This means that the holder of the master key is the only person who can authorize the production of additional keys.

My understanding is that the C14 with KIPASS and similar systems (where you can leave your key in your pocket) are different than the simpler immobilizer system we're talking about on BMWs and the S10. The key fob you keep in your pocket with KIPASS is an active device with a battery - that's why it can broadcast the coded signal over several feet. The common immobilizer systems like I assume the S10 uses are are passive and there is no battery in the key. Instead, the key contains a RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) chip in the head of the key. When the key is near the antenna loop around the ignition lock cylinder and the ignition switch is in the "on" position, the key will reflect an encrypted code to the ECU.

I don't know the proximity requirements for the immobilizer systems. I had assumed it was extremely short range (basically the key had to be in the ignition), but perhaps they'll work over slightly greater distances. I'd surprised if you didn't have to have them very close to the ignition switch.

- Mark

 

[tugbutt]

BMW's problem was not with the key but the antenna ring in the switch. Lost mine on my 08 RT just as I had all my gear on and headed to Bentonville BMW to have it replaced and spend the weekend in NW Arkansas. I was slightly pissed.

 

[20valves]

I'd be surprised if the US bikes do have the immobilizer. To date, there is not one US spec FJR with this tech on it in spite of the fact that many of the rest of the world's FJRs have had it for many years. I feel like Yam would be touting this in the features area of their web site if they planned to include it. We're all guessing a bit here so I'm just playing along.

 

[motocephalic]

The super tenere I rode yesterday, and all the ones that were at the show, all US models showed a standard key system. I am glad for that as well.

 

[fredz43]

The super tenere I rode yesterday, and all the ones that were at the show, all US models showed a standard key system. I am glad for that as well.

Were was that, Clem? My understanding from talking to Yamaha reps is that the only bikes here now are Euro models with USA fairing panels. I know the one we had here in Jan was. The number I heard from them is that there were 10 bikes in the states, all Euro models.