How would have to be the best panniers?

JaimeV

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
908
Location
Barcelona
Hi!
Now I’m involved in the development for some new panniers.
I’ve only had the BMW GSA panniers and in IMHO they where great. The only aspect I didn’t like was the attach system, very difficult to take off from the bike.
I would appreciate your experiences. If you could build them how do you make them?. What are the most important aspects?

Thanks!
 

avc8130

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
3,269
Location
North NJ
I have a pair of Pelicans on my bike and here are some things I really like about them:

1. Usable shape. These cases are nice and square. No crazy shape to clear for exhausts or add unnecessary styling.
2. Indestructible. The cases are super tough and can withstand serious abuse.
3. Waterproof. Seriously.
4. Latches. The Pelican latches are great. Very easy to operate, very tough.

Things that could be improved:
1. Tight to the bike. Since I have them mounted on Givi racks with an interface, they are about 2" wider than ideal.
2. Weight. These cases are heavy at ~10lbs EACH plus the racking.

Hope that helps.

ac
 

MeefZah

Curmudgeonly
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
218
Location
Lexington, Ohio
Top loading. I've had Givis, Pelicans and Happy Trails, and the top loading of the HT means I can cram more stuff in while the bag is on the bike.

Good, useable, folding handles to carry the bags. Most top loaders do not have handles at all, which can be annoying.

Made of a material that is incapable of breaking.

Waterproof.

Ironclad mouting to the bike so they can't be lost, I like HT's setup with the pucks and aluminum brackets.

Integral locks keyed the same as the bike, but with the option of not locking the bags if you chose only to latch them, not lock them.

Unobtrusive mounting rack. HT fails at this.

Symmetrical mounting. I hate lopsided bags.

Bad ass appearance. I personally really dig the utilitarian look of square black metal boxes, which may not be everyones cup of tea, but they have to have solid lines on an ADV bike. Pussy looking curvy bags like Givis are for sport tourers.

Reasonable cost... $1000+ for bags is insane; you can buy a new Ninja 300 for $4000, you're telling me that a steel bracket and two aluminum bags - which is about $50 in metal and another $50 in labor to fab up - is worth 1/4 of the cost of a new motorcycle???

I'm sure I will think of more....
 

avc8130

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
3,269
Location
North NJ
"Integral locks keyed the same as the bike, but with the option of not locking the bags if you chose only to latch them, not lock them."

THIS is PERFECT. 95% of the time I don't want my saddlebags locked. So I don't want to have to mess around with keys and locks just to get to my stuff each time. I also HATE that the stock bags rely on the ignition key. I have seen guys break the ignition key in their gas cap on a trip. We scrambled to find a locksmith and get a new key for the ignition for way too long.

"Top loading. I've had Givis, Pelicans and Happy Trails, and the top loading of the HT means I can cram more stuff in while the bag is on the bike."

I'm the opposite. I like the side after experiencing it. The opening is bigger so I can fit bigger stuff.

"Good, useable, folding handles to carry the bags. Most top loaders do not have handles at all, which can be annoying."

YES! One of my favorite features of the Pelicans is the awesome handles. The handles should be such that you can carry each bag with 1 hand. That way you can carry the set easily together.

ac
 

twinrider

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
1,882
Location
Yokohama
Top loading
Narrow profile for lane-splitting (mounts as close to the bodywork as possible)
Option of leaving them unlocked
Mounts that are strong enough to serve as guards when the panniers are not on the bike.
 

liguorien

New Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
204
Location
St-Liguori, Qc, Canada
Oh my, am I glad I didn't pull the trigger on hard luggage yet....
Are you working with ACD again?

This AS to be part of your design.
Integral locks keyed the same as the bike, but with the option of not locking the bags if you chose only to latch them, not lock them.

I think one off the most important aspect of your design as to be the "Brakets" . It need to be Super strong AND super quick to get them on/off the bike.

Also, It would be nice to offer two type of mounting option... One for the bikes that runs With Passenger pegs AND the other for the ones that run Without 'em , like your"s .... and mine ;D

Any way, I won't buy anything until I see your design ::008::
Thanks for keeping us informed.
 

phplemel

Member
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
263
Location
Whitehorse Yukon
I use Pelican cases & mostly love them
My wish list:
Lighter-Pelicans are bulletproof but weigh too much
Thin cross-section so they can be mounted closer to frame--they dont have to carry the kitchen sink- we're on M/C's for **** sake
Good-Top mounted handles--I love that I can carry my Pelicans like luggage
SOLID mounting--my Pelican-SW-Motech attaching system SUCKS
Still need to have a REASONABLY quick release system

****MOST IMPORTANT*** at least for JaimeV & me O:) A rack that fit real close to take advantage of the None dual exhaust
I'll think of more I'm sure. but if these turn out like some of your other projects, I will have a slightly used pannier set for sale
 

Rasher

Active Member
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
1,955
Location
UK
Had a few sets now, Givi, SW-Motech and BMW Vario's

Vario's were fiddly to put on / off and the variable size a bit of a gimmick, but apart from that they were nice with a good feel, the SW-Motechs on the Tenere have not been heavily used yet, but I do like the looks and top loading, the Plastic Givi's I had on a sportsbike also worked fine but the odd shape made loading a bit awkward and left wasted space. Based on that lot:-

1. I really like the easily detachable SW-Motech Rails, as I only use the panniers a few times a year it is handy these come off in ten seconds.

2. Capacity is a personal thing, but I fount the @70 litres of my BMW / Sportsbike a bit small for two-up touring, the 82L combined (37 / 45) of the SW's is about perfect, of course you always want more, but I think this is a nice balance between enough room and not allowing us to carry too much, and I think are an OK.......

3. Size / Shape - I don't know why so many folk moan about width, I think the Yamaha ones could have been an inch or so wider and it would have had virtually no impact on filtering, yet would have given a very useful boost to the capacity (@15% :question: you do the maths) certainly my SW kit is not all that much wider and is almost 30% larger. The biggest difference to filtering comes down to how close the boxes can be mounted which is where with both BMW and Yamaha OEM stuff wins as it is specifically designed for just one bike and latches on very close to the bike where all third party stuff hangs a few inches out on rails.

For me I go on Holiday where there won't be traffic to filter through, if I wanted to Holiday in London, New York or Paris I would use the Underground / Tube system.

4. I did like the way the BMW boxes could be closed without locking them, I do find it mildly annoying that when out and about for a day I have to unlock my SW Top Box to get into it

5. I also prefer Top Loaders, find them easier to stuff full and all your gear does not fall out if you need to open them when on the road, I also found the BMW side loaders could be hard to close when on the bike as your stuff settles at the bottom and often ended up having to take the box off the bike to get it to close/

6. Real world testing - The kit must work well, with my SW setup the top box sits way too far forward, OK for solo use, but really cramps two people up making the bike very uncomfortable - I would suggest they never even tested the bike two up, I had my Alu-Rack machined out and the locating pins moved, you should not need to do this due to a glaring design flaw on mid range kit (in fact even on cheap kit!) You also often hear of panniers which get in the way of pillions legs or footpegs

6. General Quality - They need to feel good, my SW Stuff is quite nice, and would probably get an 8 / 10 from me, but the locks feel very cheap and nasty and seem to ruin the impression of quality, on a £1500 setup why did they fit such rubbish locks.

7. Ruggedness - I don't really ride off-road, but with these bikes the boxes (and mounts) should be able to survive being shaken about and the odd drop without the kit being wrecked, I know this is tricky as there are so many different types of crash and nothing will survive every scenario, but at the very least they should be easily able to withstand the bike toppling over at low speed, and not to fall off / crack when used on bumpy surfaces for an extensive period.
 

JaimeV

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
908
Location
Barcelona
Thanks guys! This is really good information.

Yes I’m with ACD again. Next year I’m planning a really long and adventurous trip, so I need some really strong cases. Bad or weak cases can ruin a trip so is a very important aspect. I told ACD and I’m sure they can do a good product.
I agree with most of your comments, this is my list:

- They must be bullet proof, indestructible. Made in aluminum
- I’m going to do hard off road with them so the attachment to the bike must be tight to the bike. Not too low to avoid to have a trapped leg if I must push the bike. The mounts must be easy to take off but priority to be really strong. If I leave it they must be a good guard when panniers are not in the bike
- Completely waterproof
- Square and usable shape, no crazy shape to clear for exhaust or unnecessary styling. Adventure looking.
- Easy to fix top load
- Light if possible but priority to be strong.
- Handles: The GSA system with straps could be a good option
- Integrated locks with the option to not locking, BMW system is ok.
- Two sizes, so you can choose to have the same size in each side like me with the dual exhaust or different in each side if you have the stock exhaust. Not sure about capacity. I've found the GSA 38/44 where a bit too wide so the 31/38 of Zega Pro could be enough. What do you think??
- No needed to have the passenger pegs
- Inside it could be lined by a kind of neoprene to avoid hits from the load and dirt from the aluminum.

I think most of your requirements are here, anything else?

Thanks again!
 

twinrider

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
1,882
Location
Yokohama
I would look to Holan's panniers as a role model. They are pretty much spot-on in terms of desired features (with the exception — for some — that the mounts aren't quick release).

The cutout for the muffler creates a 89cm width on their 38 liter panniers, giving about 68 liters total capacity. I think that's about ideal in terms of compromise between width and capacity.
 

Flydream

New Member
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
112
Location
Portugal - Azores
I think most of your requirements are here, anything else?

Thanks again!
[/quote]


Now that you asked, I want a price under 550 € for the complete set ::015::
 

Siseneg

Member
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
591
Location
Caribean
I was kind of wondering (with reference to the 'square' shape) if a custom design might incorporate a taper, thinner near the front, or maybe a shape that made 'dabbing' a little less treacherous (you mentioned not getting aleg caught). I loved my Pelicans on the KLR, but that bike got tossed around a lot and grabbing a foot-full of earth often meant smacking into the front of the case. Don't know about practicality, and it is against the 'no exotic shapes' piece. I don't think the S10 is going to see as much feet-down paddling as the KLR but I did wonder ... what if?
Maybe an option to install top-plates to make a giant sized tail rack (with cup holders, of course) to stow stuff you know you'd have to remove before accessing the cases. Of course, having a picnic table built on to the tail would be nice :)
 

Kelvininin

New Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
178
Location
55374
Jesse Luggage makes great panniers. Top loading, locking, waterproof, very rugged, not too heavy, easy on and off system. I had them on my KTM A990, and will have them on my S10 as soon as I have the bike paid off, or sell my other bike.
 

lbever

Member
Founding Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
42
Hard to beat Jesse Luggage if you are looking for hard cases. I am on my third set on three different bikes. Have been down twice at over 30 mph. Only put a few small dents in one of the bags and a bent bracket. Straightened mounting bracket re-mounted bag and kept going. The multiple angles of the Jesse bags add tremendous strength and rigidity. If you are going to to hard core off road riding it is very important to have tapered fronts on the bags to provide foot/leg clearance. Even with the tapered fronts you still run the risk of foot and leg damage, I have caught my foot under my bags several times, just lucky I have not been hurt. If you are looking at doing really hard core riding I suggest getting a Giant Loop Great Basin bag. much safer and load is centered over the bike.
 

Don in Lodi

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
5,779
Location
Lodi Kalifornia
The Safari models ride higher and have a larger cut out for leg clearance.
 

GrahamD

Active Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
2,149
Location
Blue Mnts - OzStralia
I just picked up a set of Barrets.

Ali, Tie downs, welded, Keys, 35L. Gasket, Top locked to side so both bend together so they stay mated in case you fall. Blanks available on request. No Mercedes parked out the front. Bikes everywhere.

Once I install the 10 layers of Kevlar they should be bullet proof as well. Depends on the bullet though doesn't it. ::024::

Not my pic.

 
Top