How much clutch drag do you have??

[Barrel]

Good day

My ST has 30,000km and it seems that I am experiencing more clutch drag since the 15,000KM mark when I did really notice it.... as it may had done it since day one???

Basically when I place the bike on the center stand and put it into gear the rear wheel spins with the clutch engaged and it can be very hard to stop even with your feet, of course you can stop it with the rear brake but as soon as you release it the wheel spins again and is still very hard to stop.....the funny thing is that sometime it does not do it especially when the bike is cold and the wheel is easily stopped but after +/-40km or 25miles it does it all the time..........I was wondering if you have experienced / are experiencing the same thing with yours.......before I have my clutch possibly replaced as initially recommended by my dealer - still need to be internally inspected (not warranty) I would like to know that it is normal up to what point.......some other ST's owners have confirmed the same phenomena when warm/hot however after they have used the rear brake, the rear wheel was easily stopped afterwards.......

Some of the symtoms are:

1. Rear wheel spins even if the clutch is engaged (easily stop when cold - normal);
2. Rear wheel spins even if the clutch is engaged (very hard to stop when warm/hot - i.e. after +/-40 km or 25miles - can be stopped with the rear brake but spins again when released and hard to stop....);
3. bike hard to push when in gear with the clutch engaged;
4. hard and noisy downshift;
5. clunky transmission when put into first gear;

I will be interested to see some of your results after performing tests # 1 and #2 as described above!

Thanks much for your time...

 

[Don in Lodi]

Bleed the clutch.

 

[Barrel]

Bleed the clutch.

Thanks - done a few times and also by the dealer - no success.

 

[Don in Lodi]

It may be necessary to reverse bleed; pressurize from the clutch up to the rez. I've read of folks having trouble with getting that last bit of air out, shops included.

 

[Combo]

My clutch has never since new had a strong hit engagement. You can tell more when dumped in a taller gear the clutch slips some. My disengagement works good but will also turn the tire more on the center stand when hot in gear.
I don't know if its the plates or if its the pressure to the plates when disengaged is the problem for the slip.

The heat may cause the plates to drag the pressure plate and make the tire to turn more when disengaged?

I do know that something does not feel right but will most likley last a long time if riding normal.

But I am abbynormal.

 

[mcbrien]

My clutch has been crappy since new . When I first start it up the engagement point
is right at the bottom of engagement after a few miles it gets better but not alot .
I find it helps if I push the lever out and then squeeze it a few times . Bleeding doesn't
seem to help . 12000 miles on bike so far .

 

[Barrel]

Thanks for your feedback!

I will be interested to see some of your results after performing tests # 1 and #2 as described above in the original post!

Cheers

 

[NoMorBills]

It is possible that some off the clutch disc have become worped. This will cause excess drag. Strange that it is more noticable when warm. Try a new clutch.

There was a post way back on ADV regarding this same thing but even worst. It was the discs gone bad.

 

[The Ferret]

Strange that it is more noticable when warm.

air expands when warm so more to compress when you disengage (pull the clutch lever) the clutch.

 

[MidlifeMotor]

One of the topics on the Yamaha V-Star forum was the bike would "bump" when starting in gear no matter how much you pulled in the clutch lever. Many posters were concerned the clutch was not fully disengaging when the clutch lever was fully squeezed. The overall consensus was it was normal, as it would take time for the clutch plates to warm up as the oil warmed. Since the V Star does not have a center stand, no one posted about the rear wheel spinning as you described. Ironically, the bump seemed more pronounced in the cold weather, contrary to what you are describing.

I think what you are experiencing is similar. With the bike on the center stand, there is no friction between the rear wheel tire and the ground. The relatively minor "drag" in the clutch now seems much more pronounced. I would not worry about this unless the bike wants to roll on the ground while in gear and the clutch lever fully squeezed.

 

[Mikef5000]

1. Rear wheel spins even if the clutch is engaged (easily stop when cold - normal);
2. Rear wheel spins even if the clutch is engaged (very hard to stop when warm/hot - i.e. after +/-40 km or 25miles - can be stopped with the rear brake but spins again when released and hard to stop....);
3. bike hard to push when in gear with the clutch engaged;
4. hard and noisy downshift;
5. clunky transmission when put into first gear;

Mine does most the same things (everything but #4). 17,500 miles on it. I've pretty much decided that it's normal.

 

[scott123007]

There are a lot of variables that all could be considered in the range of "normal" in an oil bath multiplate clutch. Suffice it to say, if you are stopped and in first or second gear while the engone is running, and can without much force, shift into neutral, the clutch is operating normally, regardless of other symtoms.

 

[Duconce]

There are only a couple of things that would cause it to drag. One as mentioned is a bad disc or discs and the clutch slave need to be looked at. The clutch slave was a real weak point on Ducati's. Depending how you use it, 30k on a it, might need a rebuild plates and discs

 

[Don in Lodi]

30K in Canada is something like 19000 miles here. I'll stick with air in the system. It fits the symptoms perfectly. My Royal Star is still running around with the original disks and plates... and a Barnett pressure plate with over 115,000 miles.

 

[Barrel]

Good day

Some interesting reading in this previous post:

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=4002.15

Note the comments from EJV on page 2........same things as mine as per many other owner's and most to a lesser extent...... and I got basically the same answer from Yamaha dealers and head office.....I will try to contact him to find out what finally happen with his issue....

Before spending some $$$$, I will try to change oil first from Yamalube 20w50 to the Yamahalube 10w/50 semi/syn....I am due for an oil change anyway....

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/apparel/apscitemdetail/3/121/all/1/7454/detail.aspx

MTF

Thanks to all

 

[liguorien]

A bin a bin..... Mr. Barrel qui ce manifest en anglais....

 

[Checkswrecks]

Good day

Some interesting reading in this previous post:

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=4002.15

Note the comments from EJV on page 2........same things as mine as per many other owner's and most to a lesser extent...... and I got basically the same answer from Yamaha dealers and head office.....I will try to contact him to find out what finally happen with his issue....

Before spending some $$$$, I will try to change oil first from Yamalube 20w50 to the Yamahalube 10w/50 semi/syn....I am due for an oil change anyway....

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/apparel/apscitemdetail/3/121/all/1/7454/detail.aspx

MTF

Thanks to all

What you describe sounds like a warped plate, and the symptoms of a warped plate may indeed be heat related. All it takes is more wear on one side of a plate, so that side expands at a different rate than the other.


The clutch is very easy to remove and replace if you have the tools needed before you start, and a spare case seal/gasket in case you damage the one that is installed. The job should be done in less than 2 hours & you Canookians are starting to get snow, so what's the rush, eh?



Take out the plates and discs and keep them in order. The last onein the back of the basket is hard to see and you sometimes have to play with it to come out. I scrub the black sludge off with a soft nylon brush in a shallow pan of clean engine oil and inspect for uneven wear spots. Then lay each on a piece of glass. (A small pane from a hardware store is cheap.) There is a spec for allowable warpage in the maintenance manual, I just don't have it handy right now.


On a related note and while the thing is apart, line up the clutch springs and make sure one hasn't collapsed slightly, as it would put an uneven pressure on the plates. An uneven engagement leads to more heat on one side of at least one plate.


In the post that you linked to, EJV wrote that he went to Mobil1 and I did the same on the FJR with a noticeable difference in clutch feel. My Tenere went to Mobil1 at the first change.

 

[Duconce]

30K in Canada is something like 19000 miles here. I'll stick with air in the system. It fits the symptoms perfectly. My Royal Star is still running around with the original disks and plates... and a Barnett pressure plate with over 115,000 miles.

The clutch is a sealed system with a bladder, if you are getting air into the system then you have an air leak. Most clutches will bleed themselves over a period by design, air rises. The leak doesn't fix itself. The clutch slave can leak internally. A clutch like the Teneres is going to get way different use, especially if used off road than a Royal Star

 

[Don in Lodi]

What you describe sounds like a warped plate, and the symptoms of a warped plate may indeed be heat related. All it takes is more wear on one side of a plate, so that side expands at a different rate than the other.


The clutch is very easy to remove and replace if you have the tools needed before you start, and a spare case seal/gasket in case you damage the one that is installed. The job should be done in less than 2 hours & you Canookians are starting to get snow, so what's the rush, eh?



Take out the plates and discs and keep them in order. The last onein the back of the basket is hard to see and you sometimes have to play with it to come out. I scrub the black sludge off with a soft nylon brush in a shallow pan of clean engine oil and inspect for uneven wear spots. Then lay each on a piece of glass. (A small pane from a hardware store is cheap.) There is a spec for allowable warpage in the maintenance manual, I just don't have it handy right now.


On a related note and while the thing is apart, line up the clutch springs and make sure one hasn't collapsed slightly, as it would put an uneven pressure on the plates. An uneven engagement leads to more heat on one side of at least one plate.


In the post that you linked to, EJV wrote that he went to Mobil1 and I did the same on the FJR with a noticeable difference in clutch feel. My Tenere went to Mobil1 at the first change.

The clutch on these things doesn't use multiple springs like a Barnett. It's just one diaphragm style washer/spring. At least the parts blow up looks just like the Royal Star's. And air does get introduced through an inept attempt at bleeding. If the air works out on it's own then there is no reason to bleed the air out in the first place.
My 800# Royal Star pulled my fat ass, my three hundred pound trailer, and my pretty little wife all over the place. I'd say that reflects some pretty severe use. These systems just aren't as delicate as some are wont to think. That washer diaphragm thingy is really the only weak point, it looses tension over time. You get slippage, not a low clutch though.

 

[EJV]

Howdy!

So, I am at 26,436 miles now.
I use Pennzoil 10w-40 or 20w-50 (I like the yellow container, lol)
Still using the swapped around plates. Not as bad as it was. I have NOT used the Yamaha branded "motorcycle" oil since.

I plan to replace that damn spring ring thing and the clutch plates this winter (soon).

I claim "motorcycle" oil and some prior air in the line causing the issue. That's my story and I am sticking to it.

(I need to do the fork seals too. Those puked out recently) My winter maintenance list is getting longer!

EJ