Harley Pan American coming 2/21/2021

[WJBertrand]

Lots of people just become brand loyal and blind to the faults of the bikes they like. I'd say that my BMW indoctrinated friends are worse than the Harley guys I know!

Truth. When I attended a local new BMW dealer grand opening (out of curiosity) I was amazed at the complaining the BMW owners in attendance were doing. Both very critical of the new bikes offered for test rides, and their own bikes. I was amazed, these were BMW loyal fans? I heard horror tales of repair costs that were higher than some new motorcycles I've bought. I'd put up with something like that exactly once. Still they all seemed resigned in the end to eat whatever BMS feeds them, regardless how bitter the taste. At one point I was conversing with a couple of attendees and after hearing them complain about their reliability issues, I mentioned there are other options out there and used my trouble free high mileage ST1300, that I had at the time, as an example. They stopped complaining for a second, looked at me like I was from Mars and then picked up right where they left off. It's like they are afflicted with some strange form of Stockholm Syndrome...

 

[Sierra1]

But, if they didn't have their Beemers, they couldn't brag about having one to their friends that had no knowledge of motorcycles. Bragging about riding a Honda just doesn't have the same panache. Same way about bragging that you ride a Harley. People in the know. . . . know. People that don't ride, have their own image of certain bikes. The Japanese big 4 don't have the "spark" that BMW & H-D, or even Indian, do. And, I know people that haven't even heard of KTM. To some people reliable is just soooo boring.

 

[VRODE]

Truth. When I attended a local new BMW dealer grand opening (out of curiosity) I was amazed at the complaining the BMW owners in attendance were doing. Both very critical of the new bikes offered for test rides, and their own bikes. I was amazed, these were BMW loyal fans? I heard horror tales of repair costs that were higher than some new motorcycles I've bought. I'd put up with something like that exactly once. Still they all seemed resigned in the end to eat whatever BMS feeds them, regardless how bitter the taste. At one point I was conversing with a couple of attendees and after hearing them complain about their reliability issues, I mentioned there are other options out there and used my trouble free high mileage ST1300, that I had at the time, as an example. They stopped complaining for a second, looked at me like I was from Mars and then picked up right where they left off. It's like they are afflicted with some strange form of Stockholm Syndrome...

Some will put up with anything for the marque. I mean anyone can buy a Honda, right? Reliability issues and high maintenance costs are just part of the panache.

 

[twinrider]

I've always wondered if the power output was why they were the only ones using belts. 'Cuz, belts would be great; quiet, light, and no lube.

It would be the rock issue mentioned above. Belt drives don't last long if you're riding a lot of gravel and dirt roads.

Add a chain oiler and it's pretty much maintenance free and will last a LONG time. And you can definitely feel the lack of unsprung weight when going over bumps. My chain-driven Africa Twin was much better than my S10 in this regard.

 

[PhilPhilippines]

At one point I was conversing with a couple of attendees and after hearing them complain about their reliability issues, I mentioned there are other options out there and used my trouble free high mileage ST1300, that I had at the time, as an example. They stopped complaining for a second, looked at me like I was from Mars and then picked up right where they left off. It's like they are afflicted with some strange form of Stockholm Syndrome...

Wonderful imagery Thank you lolol

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . Add a chain oiler and it's pretty much maintenance free and will last a LONG time. . . .

IIRC, Yamaha tried something like that back in the '80s. The XV 920(?) had an enclosed chain drive that kept the chain constantly lubed. I've never seen one in the wild, and it was only around for a couple of years. I understand that a chain transmits a greater percentage of the engine's power to the wheel, and there's the weight & cost advantage . . . . but, at this stage in life. . . . I want the shaft. (drive shaft that is)

 

[regder]

Some will put up with anything for the marque. I mean anyone can buy a Honda, right? Reliability issues and high maintenance costs are just part of the panache.

BMW sells a bajillion big GS's, way more than any other adventure bike and probably more than any bike out there that's not a beginner or scooter. That is despite costing more than an entry level car. You have to imagine there's probably something to it.

Add a chain oiler and it's pretty much maintenance free and will last a LONG time. And you can definitely feel the lack of unsprung weight when going over bumps. My chain-driven Africa Twin was much better than my S10 in this regard.

Chain oilers are pretty messy. There's obviously no perfect solution, with positives and negatives to all, but if a bike like a Tenere had the option of chain or shaft, I think most would choose the shaft.

 

[Sierra1]

BMW sells a bajillion big GS's, way more than any other adventure bike and probably more than any bike out there that's not a beginner or scooter. That is despite costing more than an entry level car. You have to imagine there's probably something to it.

Not necessarily. The term, more dollars than sense, comes to mind. For many of those that can, being able to brag to a certain circle of friends, is all that counts. Besides, if ya' got the money to buy it. . . . ya' likely have the money to fix it.

I'm never going to buy anything . . . . just because everybody else is. Those that do are sheeple.

 

[regder]

Not necessarily. The term, more dollars than sense, comes to mind. For many of those that can, being able to brag to a certain circle of friends, is all that counts. Besides, if ya' got the money to buy it. . . . ya' likely have the money to fix it.

I'm never going to buy anything . . . . just because everybody else is. Those that do are sheeple.

The pretense of wealth is probably true for some, but hardly for all. Especially when you factor in European buyers that have less of a consumer mentality that us North Americans do.

I'm a cheap bastard, but my experience has been the product that everyone buys, is generally the best product for most people. Might not be the cheapest, or excel in a single category the most, but as a general rule the sheeple product is the best.

 

[VRODE]

The pretense of wealth is probably true for some, but hardly for all. Especially when you factor in European buyers that have less of a consumer mentality that us North Americans do.

I'm a cheap bastard, but my experience has been the product that everyone buys, is generally the best product for most people. Might not be the cheapest, or excel in a single category the most, but as a general rule the sheeple product is the best.

IMHO anecdotal and statistical evidence beats popular choices. Sometimes they are one in the same, but not always.
But you should ride what makes you happy and that’s not always the logical choice.
Ride what you like, like what you ride.

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . I'm a cheap bastard, but my experience has been the product that everyone buys, is generally the best product for most people. . . .

So. . . . explain the Tenere. Not the most popular/purchased, but, is the the best product for most people.

 

[VRODE]

So. . . . explain the Tenere. Not the most popular/purchased, but, is the the best product for most people.

It is, unless…….you really want a BMW (or a Ducati, KTM, etc) If that’s the case you’ll make the case to justify it and spend the money. No problems….unless you try to state it’s the best option for anyone who wants that type of bike. Then I can suggest a nice hike for you.

 

[regder]

So. . . . explain the Tenere. Not the most popular/purchased, but, is the the best product for most people.

Is it though? It's a great product for certain use cases that likely apply to most of us here as we ended up with one. I personally would have bought a big GS if I wasn't so cheap.

 

[JJTJ2]

But, if they didn't have their Beemers, they couldn't brag about having one to their friends that had no knowledge of motorcycles. Bragging about riding a Honda just doesn't have the same panache. Same way about bragging that you ride a Harley. People in the know. . . . know. People that don't ride, have their own image of certain bikes. The Japanese big 4 don't have the "spark" that BMW & H-D, or even Indian, do. And, I know people that haven't even heard of KTM. To some people reliable is just soooo boring.

I guess that I am just a boring kind of guy.

Not necessarily. The term, more dollars than sense, comes to mind. For many of those that can, being able to brag to a certain circle of friends, is all that counts. Besides, if ya' got the money to buy it. . . . ya' likely have the money to fix it.

I have always went with the saying, "if I can't afford to fix it or maintain it, then I can't afford to buy it." My buddy owns a GS. After his first $3,500 repair bill he told me that if that happens again, he will be looking at a Tenere. Is see it as a matter of time before he is on a Tenere.

 

[Sierra1]

Is it though? It's a great product for certain use cases that likely apply to most of us here as we ended up with one. I personally would have bought a big GS if I wasn't so cheap.

We may be saying the same thing. If the GS, or BMW in general, had a bullet proof reputation. . . . the extra dollars wouldn't have been an issue. There was never a doubt that the Tenere, or Yamaha in general, would be trouble free. . . . for a lot less money.

 

[Boris]

I ride a Super Tenere 1200 and have done for almost 5 years now and will have it for, at the very least, another two years. But, I’m obsessed with BMW GS’s. They live rent free in my mind.

 

[regder]

We may be saying the same thing. If the GS, or BMW in general, had a bullet proof reputation. . . . the extra dollars wouldn't have been an issue. There was never a doubt that the Tenere, or Yamaha in general, would be trouble free. . . . for a lot less money.

We probably are on the same page, I can be hard headed at times.

The LC GS models seem to be pretty solid so far, with many riders putting on many miles with only limited issues. The amount of riders that trust a GS to go RTW is pretty good anecdotal evidence of the bike's merits.

To go in another direction, putting aside purchasing price and maintenance/repair costs, is the S10 better in any single way to a big GS?

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . To go in another direction, putting aside purchasing price and maintenance/repair costs, is the S10 better in any single way to a big GS?

In my world, that's all that matters. I don't need to have the best. That being said, after owning a Tenere, and living with a Beemer. . . . gonna pick the Tenere.

 

[JJTJ2]

I ride a Super Tenere 1200 and have done for almost 5 years now and will have it for, at the very least, another two years. But, I’m obsessed with BMW GS’s. They live rent free in my mind.

I will agree that they are impressive machines. But the question is, will it remain rent free once you own it?

 

[WJBertrand]

IIRC, Yamaha tried something like that back in the '80s. The XV 920(?) had an enclosed chain drive that kept the chain constantly lubed. I've never seen one in the wild, and it was only around for a couple of years. I understand that a chain transmits a greater percentage of the engine's power to the wheel, and there's the weight & cost advantage . . . . but, at this stage in life. . . . I want the shaft. (drive shaft that is)

To me this is the ultimate solution. Unfortunately folks are apparently turned off by the appearance of the chain enclosure. Good engineering solution ash canned because of aesthetics,... tisk.